OK, as promised in the thread on the blown up M1, I decided to get some information out, and kill a myth for some of you.
We all know that benchrest shooters, the guys into real fine accuracy weigh each charge of powder, right?
WRONG! That was the myth.
I am one of those benchrest shooters, have been for years. Not just a "local yokel" that shoots 6-10 MOA from a bench, but one of those guys shooting 1/4 MOA with match guns from a bench and bags in competition.
I'm not bragging about it. I am saying this to let folks know I don't know this information from what I see online, but more from what I see at events and personal direct knowledge.
I'd probably be lying if I said I've never seen a powder scale at a BR (bench rest) match. But, I can't remember the last time I saw one, or even for sure if I did see one. They simply aren't used, and the experienced guys don't bring them (we leave them back at home, in the shop).
What do we use? We use good quality powder measures, of course. Either measures marketed specifically to bench rest shooters, mildly modified commercial measures or older measures known for high quality.
Among my measures are a few Lyman 55 measures, some mildly modified, some not. An RCBS Uniflow measure, mildly modified, A couple of Belding and Mull measures, unmodified. These are the measures used to load BR ammo.
One thing BR guys don't use is the expensive and useless crap like the RCBS Chargemaster, and similar measures. Another thing we don't do is weigh each powder charge.
The Chargemaster simply doesn't work well enough to make even junky ammo. A Lee scoop is actually better, as it's more accurate.
Scary thought, isn't it. But, don't trust me! Read the reviews on Midway for it http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772151/rcbs-chargemaster-1500-powder-scale-and-dispenser-combo-110-volt (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/772151/rcbs-chargemaster-1500-powder-scale-and-dispenser-combo-110-volt), make sure to check the 1 star reviews. Sure, there's LOTS of 5 star reviews. There's also lots of guys that can't shoot better than 6-10 MOA, right? Don't just toal the reviews, read them for content. Some pretty bad things they've seen.
So, BR guys use powder measures, and don't weigh what they throw. They frequently shoot 1/4 MOA or less. That should speak volumes, in itself. If it doesn't, ask yourself this simple question. Just how much better than 1/4 MOA do you need?
About those "minor modifications"? They replace the charge drum with a drum with a micrometer type system, so changing the load doesn't always require weighing it, IF you know what you're changing to. I use this, but still check the charge. I'm not THAT trusting, usually. Plus, we put a baffle in the powder hopper, to keep a constant weight on the charge drum. That's it, that's not much, either. I've made my own baffles before. I've shot some pretty tiny groups using it. If you can bend and cut sheet metal, you can make a baffle. Or, you can buy one, they are not that expensive.
Here's a Hornady micrometer metering assembly for their measure: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/425241/hornady-lock-n-load-powder-measure-rifle-micrometer-metering-assembly (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/425241/hornady-lock-n-load-powder-measure-rifle-micrometer-metering-assembly)
For the RCBS Uniflow: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/322221/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-micrometer-adjustment-screw-small-500-diameter (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/322221/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-micrometer-adjustment-screw-small-500-diameter)
And, baffles: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?newcategorydimensionid=11910 (http://www.midwayusa.com/find?newcategorydimensionid=11910)
That's just one common source. There are plenty others.
Here's a thread at ar15.com on making your own baffle for your powder measure:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/296102_.html
Keep scrolling down, there are some clever ideas about cheap and effective builds.
I use a Lee PPM and I do notice differences in the throw between full and nearly empty hopper, and for that matter between sessions, which I'm guessing has something to do with humidity / static electricity buildup affecting the powder compaction.
Now I'm really going to "cook your noodle" folks.
Weight of the powder is less important than the volume. Yup, it's true! I know, with flour, it's the other way to (with flour, weight is more important).
But, weighing powder is easier to set a measure than checking the volume of it.
With both powder and flour (baking bread), moisture in the air (and the flour or powder) affects the weight.
But, the performance of powder is more related to how much of it there is (volume) than how much moisture is in it (weight).
That explains the change of weight between sessions without changing your measure.
That Lee might not be the best measure for serious BR work, but, they never intended it as such either. I can tell you it's a real good measure, too. I would have zero problem with using one for varmint loads. So you know, that's 1 MOA ammo, the Lee is well within that requirement. Matter of fact, if you're using mass produced bullets, I see no problem with the Lee.
Lee equipment frequently isn't as rugged as other brands. It's not supposed to be. It's less rugged to keep the price down, but still work well. If an RCBS, Redding or Sinclair item were priced like the Lee, I would NEVER recommend it. I hope that makes some sense.
I beg to disagree with the views on the chargemaster and other electronic measuring systems. Properly used (and or with minimum mods) they are both accurate and can be made quicker. There are a number of High Power shooters who use the charge master. While it is not the best system, the best electronic system is the $2500 Promethius 2, it can work. They also tend to be more accurate than drum type manual measures used by themselves when working with extruded powders like IMR 4895, H4895, and RL-15.
Personally, I throw my 600 yard charges with a Harrel's measure and then trickle up with a Hornady electronic dispenser. This method has produced consistent sub-moa loads in testing. The Harrels is dead on or within -.1gr more than 90% of the time.
But it is also absolutely true that many benchrest and schutzen shooters do not weight their charges. It is also true that those schutzen shooters use the same case for every shot in a 100+ shot match (2500 total points on a 25 point target).
If you are going to use an electronic system, my recommendation is to use a modified loading procedure as well.
I begin with deprimed, cleaned and trimmed cases.
Stage 1 is to hand prime the cases. I do this 100 to 500 at a time.
Stage 2 is to run the charges individually and then immediately seat the bullet as the next charge is dispensing. I drop the powder charge on the Harrels (24 gr) using a Culver micrometer drum, weigh it and if it is off by more than .1gr I trickle up. When it is correct, I seat a bullet with a Redding Micrometer Seater and place it in a 50 round case. ~1 in 50 charges will be over weight and need to be re-thrown and weighed. I use the Hornady Auto Charge dispenser for trickling at this point.
I will say however that there are some very good High Power shooters that use Progressive Presses and throw all of their short range (200,300) and Medium Range (600) loads.
If you are using the Chargemaster see this article and there are a number of videos on mods.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/speed-up-your-rcbs-chargemaster/
Some of the same mods can help the Hornady Auto Charge as well.
One might ask, how do I know that my system works and is accurate. Well in addition to results, I periodically manually check the accuracy of my electronic scale using an RCBS 10/10 calibrated with check weights. It is always dead on. Part of the setup procedure as well is to calibrate the auto system every single time that you use it for a reloading session (takes around 1 minute). It is also a good idea to give the electronic systems a few minutes to "warm up" before calibrating.
In truth you could use the exact system that I use with a manual trickler and a balance beam scale and it would work just fine, though I believe it might be a little slower. I spend less than 10 second per round throwing, weighing and trickling the charges.
There is reaction to humidity for sure and different lots of powder will also require different charges (in both weight and volume). But the accepted standard for smokeless powder (the standard listed in all of the manuals) is weight.
Years ago I often shot with a friend who never owned a measure and used Lee scoops, his technique was simple and very consistent. He didn't know scoops were inaccurate and simply worked with them until his technique was accurate. I have scooped often since then and I find it very good for accuracy better then me without a bench. I am often mocked for that, but I know it to be true because I have done it, not because I read a magazine article.
Joe Brennan of the Cast Bullet Association did a test of powder measures and their use. Joe is an interesting character, he is a clean slate when it comes to ideas. I participated in the test and can attest to Joe's detail oriented thinking and ability to question even the most sacred of ideas. I went into the test with preconceived ideas and I completed the test with very different views on measuring powder. Take it for what it is worth but read it with an open mind.
http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-4_PowdersAnd%20Measures.htm
I would agree with Nickle about volume vs weight. How many folks sort cases for volume, they can differ far more than you think. It makes no sense to tweezer a grain into a case to be "perfect" if your cases are not as consistent. In my 375WCF I use Winchester 30-30 cases fireformed, trimmed, and sorted by weight. It makes a bigger difference than a tenth of a grain of powder if best accuracy is the goal. Case sorting and culling is an often tedious and overlooked procedure if you want the best accuracy.
YHJ
Thank you guys for an honest and refreshing analysis.
I haven't started reloading yet - But I think I've got all the stuff I need. Read through a couple manuals and have bogged down in the minutia of what is necessary, what's ideal and what's just overkill. And of course a WARNING every other paragraph.
Which only leads me to believe that I need more and more research to figure out why, and what's BS. Furthermore there don't seem to be any reloading guides for the guy who just wants to make some dang practice ammo.
Case volume is different than the volume of powder in the case. We can measure case volume by determining how much water cases will hold. We can also make certain determinations based on case weight and dimensions which affect volume. But every smokeless powder reloading guide presently produced uses the weight of powder charges to determine safe loads. The more consistent case weights and volumes the more accurate the loads. It is also true that the more consistent neck thickness and tension on the bullet, the more accurate the load (generally).
Even if you are using the Lee dippers, the dipper sizes are based on the weights of a particular charge of that many cc's of powder. I have used dippers for 45 colt and .45-70. But I also load each cartridge by weight as well.
Yup, weighing each charge is for suckers. Beam balances take some technique to work and should not be bumped/jarred while using. Most electronic reloading balances are not capable of resolving trickled powder or even a full charge accurately.
It took some convincing but I now use a no weight system with a Harrell thrower. Again, technique/repeatability is key when manipulating a powder measure.
To be fair, I had access to nice electronic balance to compare each throw and help convince me that the weighing each charge was a waste of time.
Balances only need to be used when setting up a powder measure or scoop.
That is correct.
In either situation, case or powder, consistency is the important part.
Case weight is linked to case volume. Less volume = more pressure is usually, but not always correct.
Now, like I said, powder volume is the important thing. It's also not very practical to measure volume. A key point to understand, but not what we really do.
We weigh powder, because it's so much easier than calculating it's volume. More practical too. And, close enough for reloading ammo, whether it's everyday stuff or extreme accuracy match ammo. That's why it's done, even if volume is the real key here.
You just don't have to weigh every charge. There's so many people that seem to think you do. Most of them just won't believe that it just isn't done at benchrest matches. Well, there's always an exception to the rule, of course, but I don't remember seeing it ever, and I've been attending benchrest matches as an observer or shooter for the last 50 years. One thing a few folks have done is pre-throw and weigh charges at home, then put them in plastic tubes to use. I don't anybody that kept doing that, nor have any done much of anything spectacular in shooting. Most, if not all of the current group and score records in IBS and NBRSA were made with powder measured through a good measure, not weighed. I happen to know some of those guys, and knew them around the time they shot the record.
As to Lee dippers, they are listed by volume (cubic centimeters, cc) and have a chart showing how much (weight) powder each holds by type of powder.
Now, don't get the idea you can use one volume setting to load different powders. That does happen, of course, but nothing you can really do with it, unless you KNOW the load is 100% SAFE. You don't see volume of powder to use in any data, as a rule. You see weight. Because weight is the most practical way to measure it.
Quote from: Aromatic on January 13, 2014, 10:52:17 PM
Yup, weighing each charge is for suckers. Beam balances take some technique to work and should not be bumped/jarred while using. Most electronic reloading balances are not capable of resolving trickled powder or even a full charge accurately.
It took some convincing but I now use a no weight system with a Harrell thrower. Again, technique/repeatability is key when manipulating a powder measure.
To be fair, I had access to nice electronic balance to compare each throw and help convince me that the weighing each charge was a waste of time.
Balances only need to be used when setting up a powder measure or scoop.
That's pretty much what I learned, along with the BR guys. Weighing was a lot of effort for zero results.
Quote from: Nickle on January 13, 2014, 10:57:20 PM
That's pretty much what I learned, along with the BR guys. Weighing was a lot of effort for zero results.
At 1000 yards and even at 600 weighing can bring dividends. I think when you start talking to the 1000 yard benchrest, the 1000 F class and the Palma guys you will find that they weigh their charges.
If one wanted to argue that it was not time effective to weight charges for under 500 yards, I could go along with that. BUT, confidence in ones ammo is important and if it takes weighing charges to be confident. One should do it.
I hand prime all of my rifle rounds for Service and Match rifle. I throw charges for 200 and 300 with a Harrels Powder measure with the hopper marked to show the fill that gives me the most accurate weights. I then weigh every 10th charge for consistency. For 600, I throw the charges with the Harrels, check on the Hornady Auto Charge scale and trickle up if needed.
Okay, guys. I've been shooting a long time. I'm almost 70. I love my M1 and made the decision to reload for it. I also have a bolt gun in 30-06 Sprgfd. which I thought I would use to test some of my reloads in first before firing them in the M1. I'm aware of the slam-fire problem with primers and firing pins in semi-autos. But really, I'm about ready to forget the whole idea of reloading after reading this thread on powder measuring. It's got me thinking I could make a mistake in the process and not even realize it until after an incident. Well, that's too late. Am I making this more complicated than necessary?
Quote from: RODGE on January 14, 2014, 12:15:05 AM
Well, that's too late. Am I making this more complicated than necessary?
Yes. Like motorcycles, shooting, and women, reloading is as safe as you make it.
Quote from: yellowhousejake on January 13, 2014, 06:50:57 PM
I would agree with Nickle about volume vs weight. How many folks sort cases for volume, they can differ far more than you think.
Poorly stated. I knew Nickle was speaking of powder volume. My point was that to only spend your time worrying about extreme accuracy in weighing powder at the expense of other things was a mistake. Case volume is an important and generally overlooked thing that is easily in the average reloader's control. I check powder by weight, I load powder by volume.
The truly good reloaders I have known, none of them are famous, all concentrated their efforts on process and consistency more than the choice of tools.
YHJ
Okay i'm coming out of the closet!
I own and use both Lee powder measue sets, the black ones and the yellow ones.
Also own and use a RCBS 10-10, pact eletronic, lee perfect powder maesure, and one of those fancy self dispensers, lyman series VI.
You can disassamble the lyman and get every last grain of powder out.
My scales are frequently checked against each other.
But, I'm always looking for a load that works with the dippers.
I push the base of the dipper into the powder untill it flows into the dipper, only let it fill just a bit over level, then scrape the top level with a 3X5 index card.
The card is folded and rubber banded to my little powder cup so the scrapings fall back in.
It's fast, easy and comforting to follow a procedure I have used since Nixon was president.
RODGE, don't let this discussion sacre you, read the instructions, be aware that a modern bolt gun is safe with loads that will damage your M1!
Read the instructions and follow published M1 load data.
It's okay to weigh every load, even though getting to that last tenth of a grain in weight accuracy may not affect the group uniformity.
If it's making you uneasy, by all means do weigh to the last tenth of uniforimity.
Avoid the last tenth of a maximum load.
The most accurate loads are rarely the fastest.
Quote from: yellowhousejake on January 14, 2014, 12:36:23 AM
The truly good reloaders I have known, none of them are famous, all concentrated their efforts on process and consistency more than the choice of tools.
YHJ
Process and consistency will definitely produce good, safe ammo that should pretty darn accurate.
Quote from: Mark Davis on January 14, 2014, 01:02:10 AM
RODGE, don't let this discussion sacre you, read the instructions, be aware that a modern bolt gun is safe with loads that will damage your M1!
Read the instructions and follow published M1 load data.
It's okay to weigh every load, even though getting to that last tenth of a grain in weight accuracy may not affect the group uniformity.
If it's making you uneasy, by all means do weigh to the last tenth of uniforimity.
Avoid the last tenth of a maximum load.
The most accurate loads are rarely the fastest.
Excellent advice Mark, simple and excellent.
Quote from: RODGE on January 14, 2014, 12:15:05 AM
Okay, guys. I've been shooting a long time. I'm almost 70. I love my M1 and made the decision to reload for it. I also have a bolt gun in 30-06 Sprgfd. which I thought I would use to test some of my reloads in first before firing them in the M1. I'm aware of the slam-fire problem with primers and firing pins in semi-autos. But really, I'm about ready to forget the whole idea of reloading after reading this thread on powder measuring. It's got me thinking I could make a mistake in the process and not even realize it until after an incident. Well, that's too late. Am I making this more complicated than necessary?
Yup, you certainly are. Check your primers (for seating depth), check your gun's condition.
As to brass, I recommend using USGI (Lake City or Frankfort Armory preferred) or Remington or Winchester brass in that M1. There's more, you'll learn that over time.
Keep your loads reasonable, max loads usually aren't the most accurate. 30 M2 Ball isn't all that hot anyways, but down a little in pressure.
Quote from: jmdavis on January 14, 2014, 12:10:04 AM
At 1000 yards and even at 600 weighing can bring dividends. I think when you start talking to the 1000 yard benchrest, the 1000 F class and the Palma guys you will find that they weigh their charges.
If one wanted to argue that it was not time effective to weight charges for under 500 yards, I could go along with that. BUT, confidence in ones ammo is important and if it takes weighing charges to be confident. One should do it.
I hand prime all of my rifle rounds for Service and Match rifle. I throw charges for 200 and 300 with a Harrels Powder measure with the hopper marked to show the fill that gives me the most accurate weights. I then weigh every 10th charge for consistency. For 600, I throw the charges with the Harrels, check on the Hornady Auto Charge scale and trickle up if needed.
As to 600 & 100 yards, you may b=very well be right, they may weigh them. I still don't totally subscribe to that theory, but that's me. I was shooting 100, 200 & 300, and that's the group of folks I was talking about. 600 & 1000 have come more onboard since I was in it before (I got out of it, then back in recently).
Confidence is key, 100%. If weighing gives you confidence, go for it. Not a bad way for a beginner to start, either.
As to me, if a measure won't throw consistently enough, it either gets fixed, or gets restricted to non-match grade usage.
Quote from: Mark Davis on January 14, 2014, 01:02:10 AM
RODGE, don't let this discussion sacre you, read the instructions, be aware that a modern bolt gun is safe with loads that will damage your M1!
JCG had to use proof powders and run the pressure up to a estimated 120,000 psi before he was able to make an M1 go KABOOM. Even then it was the case head that failed, not the bolt or receiver. The chances of blowing up an M1 are slim to none using even a moderate amount of safe loading technique.
I never said kaboom.
But have read about bent op-rods.
Have no idea who or what JCG is.
JCG is John C Garand, the man who designed the M1 rifle.
Bend op rods are from using a powder with too slow of a burn rate. The pressure remains too high as the bullet passes the gas port and over pressurizes the as system. This is true of almost any gas operated rifle, not just the M1.
Hatcher wrote in "Hatcher's Notebook" that as of 1948 there had not been one report of an M1 going Kaboom. The M1 is the strongest military rifle ever designed.
Thanks for revealing your refrence, it does make sense that you would be quoting Garand when describing testing the M1.
JCG could have been many things other than John C. Garand.
Obviously there is a boat load of experience in this thread when it comes to reloading, and other topics as well I'm sure. Today I full length sized and decapped about 400 HXP brass cases and about 200 with the Lake City stamp. I have started trimming them to proper length. I was finally able to find some 168 grain Nosler bullets. I thought I had some Sierra Match King coming also, but those were b.o.'rd. I'm planning on loading only few rounds with 45.5 grains of Varget. I've not decided what primer to use. I have some Winchester. I haven't been able to find any CCI military grade primers anywhere. Anybody have a source for them? All the the 30-06 brass I have was fired in the M1 that I'm reloading for. After full length sizing I wiped off the lub and held the M1 vertical with the muzzle down and dropped an empty brass into the chamber. It fell in all the way and fell back out when I elevated the muzzle without much help. Just a finger nail tug and it fell out on it's own. Most of my reloading experience has been with .45 ACP, 38/.357 and .45 Colt. With all of that reloading I used the yellow Lee dippers. Hundreds of rounds later, I've not had any problems. I do have a electronic scale and have weighed random powders amounts, just to double check the dipper process I've used. I'll probably weigh out 45.5 grains of Varget and dump it into a Lee dipper and work from there. Thanks for the encouragement to all who weighed in.
Use the Winchester primers. They're OK to use in semi-autos.
The primers that are OK for use in military semi-auto rifles are any Winchester, any CCI and Remington 7 1/2.
The CCI Mil Spec primers do have a thicker cup, but though good, isn't essential.
I've used the Winchester for years, never had a problem. Besides, they are vendors for military contracts of 5.56 ammo, and have been for 7.62 and 30-06. I don't think they would outsource primers. And, if they made military specific primers, I think they would also sell them. They do sell the 147 gr M80 bullets.
I'll go with the Winchester primers, 45.5 grains of Varget and the 168 grain Nosler bullet. After cleaning some of the primer pockets, I was looking into the bottom of the pockets with a magnifying glass and noticed that they don't all look alike. Some have a built up 'shoulder' around the flash hole. Is that anything to be concerned about? I haven't noticed that with any of the pistol calibers I've reloaded. Also was wondering about the crimp when I seat the bullet. Should I attempt to match the crimp I see on factory rds. loaded for the M1? I have some Hornady and some more of the HXP ammo I got from the CMP to compare to. Thanks again for all your help. RODGE
Crimp is optional, if the bullet has a cannelure for it.
I'd clean up those primer pockets with the tool for it, if it were me. But, I'm used to making 100-300 yard match ammo that most folks would call super grade.
If the primer seat well, and don't stick, you may be OK. Depends on how big that "ridge" is.
You will need to decrimp the primer cup of your brass. You can do this with a handtool (easily with the HXP which may only have a couple of primer dimples) or by swaging with a press mounted tool.
This online artcle seems to cover it.
http://squibloads.wordpress.com/reloading/get-the-crimp-out/
The LC will have a strong primer crimp that will take a little more work.
Most of my primer use in semi-autos is cci. #200 or Remington 9 1/2. But if you can find the large Winchesters they should work fine.
I'm using a RCBS case prep tool that has a tool for cleaning out primer pockets and different tool to bevel the primer pocket. I also found and ordered a tool from Sinclair International, (Brownells), that will reform the flash hole. Think I'll skip the crimp then, and just pay attention to OAL when seating the bullet. The Nosler bullets I will be using do not have a cannelure.
Dillon has a nice tool to swage primer pockets. Costs about $100, though.
RCBS has one that works in a reloading press, replaces shell holder and dies. It works good too.
You can take the crimp out by reaming it out. Some folks use a deburring tool, others the Lyman primer pocket deburring tool.
Every method works, some better than others. My preferences are above, from top down being from best to OK.
Quote from: Nickle on January 17, 2014, 04:52:08 PM
RCBS has one that works in a reloading press, replaces shell holder and dies. It works good too.
I use that one, works well for me on .308 and .223. There's some risk of bending the rod in the swager if you overdo it. If you get one of these, I'd suggest putting a few
non-crimped cases through it when you first get it, so you can feel where the motion should stop.
I found a used Dillon SuperSwage at a gunshow. It kicks @SS! It swages anything from a 9mm to a .308 effortlessly -- and FAST.
tk
So I'd like to give a sincere shout-out of thanks for all the contributions to this thread.
Like many in the program, my intro to riflecraft came thru Appleseed.
For the past year, I've been really struggling with my Ruger Scout 308. Darn thing just wouldn't shoot worth a darn. Big groups. No matter what I did. 6 MOA at best.
Had I thought just a bit, I would have realized that this started about the time I used up the factory loads, and started on reloads.
Reading the thread, at some point, it occurred in my usually dim little brain: hmmm, wonder if this could have to do with the sloppy way I slurp up powder in a Lee dipper.
So, I carefully put Mark Davis's method into practice, loaded 50 rds, and tested them out this weekend, and I am one happy camper. 2 MOA at best, and everything under 4 MOA. This rifle can now shoot.
So, thanks. I really appreciate the expertise that folks share here.
Thanks Floydf, but it's not my invention.
Could be Dean Grinnnel (Sp) an old time gun writer and shooting buddy of Richard Lee.
Read about it years ago, still works.
Great stuff here, thanks for sharing it!
Agrivere
Yep, a boat load of experience expressed here for sure. Conclusions from those experiences are questionable IMO. :) Accuracy depends on controlling variables and some of those variables are more important than others. After reloading for many years now I've got some conclusions of my own that was really brought to light when I started reloading for a precision rifle.
It doesn't matter if powder is weighed or dipped by volume... As long as BOTH/EITHER are consistent. One rifle type/design you may see a big difference in accuracy when varying powder, in another you'll see little to no difference. That was a big shock to me when I saw that between thin/short barreled .223's and long heavy barreled .223's with the latter being very tolerant and the first being very picky. Lots of details... Some more important than others in any given rifle, change rifles, the importance of any given detail changes. In testing anything one must only change one variable at a time and evaluate the results. That's difficult to impossible sometimes but if those variables aren't controlled, conclusions drawn are likely to be flawed......O.L.
I do have to say that I really do like my RCBS Chargemaster. It's a little slow, but it does give me very consistent results. I have learned a couple of tweaks though.
1) It's electronics are sensitive. Including temperature. If you want it to be consistent, I bring it into the room that I'm going to be working in 24 hours before I start - that lets the internals all come to the same temperature - and more importantly, prevents temperature changes during a loading session. This leads to consistency in my charges.
2) I plug it in 30 minutes before I start a session. Again, this just lets everything stabilize and do its thing.
3) I go through the calibration procedure at the start of every loading session.
4) I check a portion of my charges against a different scale - in my case a RCBS 505 scale.
5) This is something I just found out recently. I took the plastic stand that the pan sits on (and the pan itself) and wiped it down with an anti-static cloth. This ensures that there's no static charge building up on the pan area that could affect the powder charge - I found that this step alone improved the consistency of my weighed charges significantly.