New to the forum here. Noticing not much discussion on Swiss rifles. That's a shame. The Swiss have a tradition of a well regulated militia and fine marksmanship that pre-dates colonization of the Americas.
One of their tools, currently available at a modest price, is the K-31 straight pull bolt action. Caliber 7,5X55mm, think of it as a 7.62 NATO magnum. Handloaders note, uses standard .308 projectiles (not ammunition). The K-31 uses a 6 round detachable magazine and also loads readily from the top by stripper clips. IMHO, the smoothest stripper clip system on any bolt action, reloads almost as fast as an M1 Garand. Length, weight and handling are very similar to an M1 Garand. Most I have seen are in outstanding condition and are very fine shooters. I compete with one in the CMP as-issued format and when I do my part, the rifle can run with the best Springfields and M1s. Near match grade non-corrosive Swiss military ammo is readily available. With a supply of brass available from PRVI for a modest price, almost any components suitable for .308 or 30-06 may be used to handload. These rifles are also readily adaptable to a zero-mod scope or aperture sight system and have the accuracy capability to make a fine sporting, match or ersatz sniper rifle. They are definitely worth a serious look by any aspiring rifleman or CMP match shooter while they are still affordable.
Swiss straight pull rifles are an excellent choice. I shoot regulation Swiss rifle matches at the Eastern Nebraska Gun Club in Louisville Nebraska. We shoot from a prone position out to 300 meters. The score used to determine whether or not you qualify is based on your age. The younger you are the better you have to shoot. At the end of the season our Swiss liaison receives our scores and sends them off to Switzerland. If you shoot well enough you are awarded with some very nice shooting medals. These matches are shot under the auspices of the SSV (Schweizerischer Schützenverein or Swiss Shooting Association).
One change I make to my K31s is to replace the barrel band with one from a 1911 rifle. The sling swivel on the K31's barrel is on the left side whereas the 1911's swivel is on the bottom of the barrel band. I do this so that when slinging up the barrel is pulled down instead of to the left. I don't believe the Swiss teach use of the sling as a shooting aid.
I've attached a picture of my medals.
Mike, you're lucky to be able to shoot Swiss matches. A local club here hosts them, but they are only open to club members (6 year waiting list) and individuals of documentable Swiss lineage. I qualify on neither front.
It's unfortunate that they are exclusive like that. I am neither of Swiss lineage nor I am a member at ENGC.
I just picked up a 1941 K31 from AIM surplus last week. Haven't even shot it yet and it's already my favorite rifle! :)
It's such a beautifully engineered and precision piece of art to my Engineer eyes. Best feeling stock military trigger I've ever experienced. 2# 1st stage, 4# on the 2nd and silky smooth. Barrel is pristine and it's still about 98% on the bluing.
Keepshooting.com sells repro magazines for them. Can't wait to shoot an AQT with it! I wonder if anyone has ever shot a rifleman score with one?
Thanks for the tip on the front barrel band. I'll see if I can find one and put a USGI sling on it.
Any advice on reloading would be appreciated!
Hey guys I got one of these rifles and I love it. I do pretty well with the stock sights and that makes me want to try some peeps on it to get the extra radius and i have clearer vision through peeps any suggestions on how to get these diopter sights i have seen
I have seen two K31's; Slow2Speaks and Dryfire's. Both are beautiful. I just got an email that Wideners has original bayonets: http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000821&dir=
and
http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=100000819&dir=
I would buy a K31, but I really can't afford another mouth to feed right now.
UL
Quote from: Bluesteel on December 08, 2013, 03:57:42 PM
I just picked up a 1941 K31 from AIM surplus last week. Haven't even shot it yet and it's already my favorite rifle! :)
It's such a beautifully engineering and precision piece of art to my Engineer eyes. Best feeling stock military trigger I've ever experienced. 2# 1st stage, 4# on the 2nd and silky smooth. Barrel is pristine and it's still about 98% on the bluing.
Keepshooting.com sells repro magazines for them. Can't wait to shoot an AQT with it! I wonder if anyone has ever shot a rifleman score with one?
Thanks for the tip on the front barrel band. I'll see if I can find one and put a USGI sling on it.
Any advice on reloading would be appreciated!
I know what you mean about the machining. It's a machinist's wet dream. Wonder what one would cost to make today?
Don't know about rifleman score, but mine's consistently into CMP as-issued silver. Would definitely make gold if I could settle down my offhand groups, as I'm in the high 90's prone SF and 90+ RF. My long time match load was (Hornady Data) PRVI brass, Fed 210 match primer, 43.1 gr IMR 4320 and a Nosler 155 BTHP seated to 2.990", almost zero freebore. I have since used up my supply of old-stock 4320 so I am in the process of working with IMR 4064 with promising preliminary results. Was well on the way to a new match load with Varget (no book data available) but then the supply of that dried up. !@#) This was a mild load but it regulated to my sights at 200 yards and held up well to wind at that range. Recoil in this relatively heavy rifle was a peach.
Slow2speak, Swiss Products makes a very nice set of diopter sights for the K31. These are 1/8 minute adjustable target sights. The sights are much more affordable than Swiss manufacture diopters at $800 or so (if you can find them). One of these days I'll have to try and shoot a Rifleman score with them. I bought my sights from Graf and Sons: http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/17802
With respect to reloading Bluesteel there are two important things to realize. The first is that the overall cartridge length noted in your reloading manual is too long. The leade (the distance between the mouth of the gun cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet.) for the K31 is quite short. Also each rifle's chamber will be different. I use the method noted in the following link to determine how deep to seat the bullet (you'll have to go deeper than your manual indicates). http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/oal/
Secondly you'll need to full length resize your brass. Make sure that you push the shoulder back far enough. To do this you'll need to be sure you have the resizing die screwed far enough into the press. When you have the press's ram all the way up there should be no gap between the bottom of the resizing die and the shell holder. I found with my Lee dies that I have the screw the die in (1) turn in addition to what the instructions indicate. Failure to do this will result in your firing pin not reliable setting off your primers.
The load I use for my K31s is a Hornady, .308",168 grain A-Max bullet over 47.4 grains of AA4350 in a Prvi Partisan case lit by a Wolf large rifle primer. The overall length I use is 2.903-2.913 inches. This gives me a muzzle velocity of approximately 2550 feet per second.
I've got a couple of K31's and they are both great shooters. Both shoot 1979 surplus GP11 with 5-shot groups from 0.9 to 1.25 MOA. Muzzle velocity through my Oehler 35P indicated at 2575 fps. I put a Swiss Products no drill scope mount and bipod mount on the rifle along with an SWFA 10x42 scope. Jerry rigged a raised, offset cheek rest with a broom handle and electrical tape. It has proven to be very capable on man sized target out to 925 yards. And the 1125 yard buffalo at NRA Whittington is easy to whack every time, even in a 15-20 mph wind. The GP11 bullets are a VLD design that exceed the ballistic coefficient of a 175 gr matchkings. Supersonic to over 1200 yards at my elevation and easily supersonic to 1000 at sea level. Overall,I would strongly recommend the K31 to anyone looking for a long range capable rifle at a minimum of cost.
Attached photo us before I got a Swiss products bipod mount for it. Hose clamp method did not work, but I was too cheap not to give it a try!
-David
Edgewood, NM
Also do not overlook the K-11, Gewehr 11 and 96/11. Among the surplus rifle community, these have a reputation for amazing accuracy if you find a good one. You will find some with worn bores. These rifles generally have a longer leade than the K-31. The chamber dimensions are slightly different. All swiss models will function well with milspec GP11 ammo. There are some caveats with sizing for different swiss models. Dies marked specifically for the K-31 specs may not work for the other swiss models. Dies marked simply 7.5 swiss will work in all but may overwork brass for the K-31, resulting in slightly degraded accuracy.
I fire neck sized ammo in my K-31 for slow-fire stages(Lee Collet). I use only brass fired in the rifle originally and am over 10 firings with no issues. You do have to practice a firm lockup procedure, making sure bolt is rotated all the way into battery. Sure lets you know if you flinched when you have one not locked all the way home! I use FL sized brass for rapid fire stages and live with the slight loss of accuracy potential. In my load FL vs Neck translates to about .3 MOA.
Dave,
I was impressed with your Swiss rifle and the adaptations. Your constant drive for accuracy is inspiring. Just wanted to get that out to you. Watching you shoot , I learn. Thanks,
Wack that Buffalo!
Wa
Wow, great advice here. Appreciate the reloading tips. Unfortunately, it seems that all of the popular reloading powders are very hard to come by around these parts (haven't seen Varget in at least a year). I knew that Redding was the only manufacturer of K31 chamber dies but they are extremely expensive so I may start with Lee dies and just try neck sizing a small batch to start. I'd also read about determining OAL on surplusrifle.com previously and will use that technique. Probably will just shoot GP11 until the summer and maybe some Prvi-partisan for the brass when it becomes available again @ AIM Surplus.
I did find the K11 rear barrel band at Numeric for a reasonable price and found that there's a seller from New Zealand on Ebay that sells the Swiss Products style diopter sights and other parts at more reasonable prices (although I'll keep mine stock for now). Now if we can just warm up a bit so I can get out and shoot it, along with the new .22lr dedicated AR upper I just finished last night (with Taccom ULW barrel). Really excited about the possibilities for that as a rimfire sporter competition rifle. :)
Grafs had privi 7.5 Swiss brass out the wazoo a couple weeks ago. Wouldn't suggest waiting on Aim. RCBS dies worked fine with me, but could only beat GP11 by about .1-.2 MOA so I just shoot GP11.
Don't be afraid of neck sizing. If you get standard Lee dies (to rework any overstretched brass or load for RF ammo) and a Collet neck set, you're good to go. The only ammo I've found FL sizing necessary for is ammo to be shot in RF stages or switching between diff. swiss rifles. Your rifle may be different.
Another powder I had great luck with is Viht. N140. It got too expensive so I quit using it but it was a very good one. It's a bit more available than the 4895s, 4064 and Varget.
Quote from: NMMI9100 on December 10, 2013, 04:47:57 PM
Grafs had privi 7.5 Swiss brass out the wazoo a couple weeks ago. Wouldn't suggest waiting on Aim. RCBS dies worked fine with me, but could only beat GP11 by about .1-.2 MOA so I just shoot GP11.
They still have it. Unfortunately, the brass alone costs almost as much as GP11. AIM had had Prvi ammo for around $0.75/round and if it comes back, I'll buy some to shoot then reload. Wouldn't mind trying to reload GP11 but seems nobody carries berdan primers anymore.
I have seen IMR 4064 available on some of the sites lately and picked up some H335 a few days ago for reloading .223, but haven't seen anyone suggest or develop loads of H335 for 7.5 swiss.
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
H-335 is listed. Burn rate is pretty similar to 4895 so it should work with some of the lighter bullet weights. If you can glom onto some of the 4064 it is held in high regard by many swiss rifle shooters.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/20-rounds-792-kurz-fmj-124-grain.aspx?a=954662 Here's your ammo in-stock. Ignore the 7.92 Kurz, it will direct you to 7.5 swiss.