I have discovered some information for myself about glasses and prescriptions for shooting which might be helpful for other shooters with astigmatism or aging eyes. I have a host of vision issues, including partial blindness and astigmatism, and until recently I have relied mainly on scopes to compensate.
I shot rifleman last year with a scope. However, in my mind to be a true rifleman, I needed to learn how to shoot iron sights. This has been a struggle for me as I can not clearly identify the target well enough to know when my front post is at center mass on phases 3 and 4 of the AQT, and after a long hot weekend of AQT drills, your vision isn't likely to improve as you grow weary.
I spoke to the eye doctor about this and he didn't have much to offer, even though he too is a shooter. He suggested a bifocal but to me that seemed a problem since I wouldn't be able to see the target at all. There are tools out there which can be applied to help with astigmatism, some that attach to your glasses, but I didn't want to go that route.
This past weekend I attended an AS and discovered that part of the issue is my glasses were too low a profile, meaning that when I placed my cheek properly on the stock (shooting an AR 15) my head is tilted down, and as I am looking through the top of my eyes and the lenses to a degree, my field of vision becomes blurry because the clear point of focus on these glasses is dead center, not at the top of the lens where I am looking.
So I had the bright idea to visit the local lens center and see if there was a way to create the proper focus a bit higher on the lens so that when I am in prone position I am not lifting my head off the stock in order to see clearly. We worked first to find a frame that was light weight that fit comfortably. In addition, I wanted a larger lens that would not interfere with my line of sight and that would stay in place when I was on the stock. That took some time.
I found some of the Oakley glasses that fit well, but they fogged up instantly, which was a problem for a number of shooters last weekend here in Georgia with the high humidity. So I knew the frame would have to be more open to allow air flow.
After finding the right frame, they took a digital image of me wearing the frame, with one caveat. I held my hand up against my cheek as if I were on the stock and tilted my head to a shooting position. This lifted the center of focus to my actual shooting position. I had them add polarization with a brown tint (which really highlights those darned redcoats), and an hour later I had a new pair of shooting glasses.
This was not the first time this particular lenscrafter had dealt with shooters. They recently had a gentleman come and bring all of his various rifles and shotguns to make sure that the frames he picked would not interfere with his cheek weld. They did the same adjustment on the center of vision for him as they provided me. It's only a slight elevation in the lens, but boy does it make a difference.
Knowing that they can do this if asked is a bonus, as you can go to your favorite optics location and find the frame that is perfect for you instead of having to order something online that may or may not work or fit properly.
Trying out my new glasses when I got home I was able to put the shots exactly where I wanted them, and for the first time ever I was able to shoot with both eyes open which allowed me to see both the target and the front post quite clearly. Previously I had to squint which was exhausting. Additionally, because I am not having to lift my head I was able to get a much better cheek weld.
While this is anecdotal for my particular situation, it certainly wouldn't hurt if you are struggling with your sight picture to start with the simple things first before going whole hog on some of the more fancy solutions. Get a current eye evaluation, getting distance glasses only, no bifocal unless you really think it will help you, and if you do, keep it low on the lens. Keep the lens large enough to give you a good field of view and a frame that works for you.
Thanks for that info. I have also heard of people putting a foam earplug under the bridge of their glasses to raise them slightly. Should do the same thing, right?
Quote from: LawDog on September 10, 2013, 06:04:20 PM
Thanks for that info. I have also heard of people putting a foam earplug under the bridge of their glasses to raise them slightly. Should do the same thing, right?
Yes it works!
I was reading Ringer68 and have a big feeling of deja-vu ... I'm on the exact same quest of qualifying with irons and a challenging eyesight. I decided to do it without modifying my rifle or especial equipment that cannot easily be improvised, so, I've been working with the eye plug on the support side of the bridge to move my glasses to the proper position. I have yet to shoot and aqt with it but I haven't had issue with front sight / target blur on the 25m or 100m lines.
Quote from: LawDog on September 10, 2013, 06:04:20 PM
Thanks for that info. I have also heard of people putting a foam earplug under the bridge of their glasses to raise them slightly. Should do the same thing, right?
Interesting... Yes I would think that raising the glasses up would be helpful if the lens is large enough, allowing you to essentially raise the center of focus up. It would also, I think, help prevent glasses from slipping down the bridge of the nose when you get hot and sweaty? I suspect the nose pads that are made for this would be easier to use.
The issue I found is that the glasses I was using are narrow, the typical style you see nowadays, so the center of focus is in a very small area of the lens and I have a fairly limited field of vision. I can look up down left and right and see the rim of my glasses. What I needed was a larger lens so my peripheral vision was not obstructed. The larger lens also means I have more flexibility to put the center of focus anywhere I want on that lens.
I am posting images of the two styles of glasses so you can see what a difference there is in the field of view. Amazingly the style I chose, even though a larger lens, does not interfere with the stock. I'll get to try it out this weekend. :)
Quote from: draken on September 10, 2013, 07:19:24 PM
Quote from: LawDog on September 10, 2013, 06:04:20 PM
Thanks for that info. I have also heard of people putting a foam earplug under the bridge of their glasses to raise them slightly. Should do the same thing, right?
Yes it works!
I was reading Ringer68 and have a big feeling of deja-vu ... I'm on the exact same quest of qualifying with irons and a challenging eyesight. I decided to do it without modifying my rifle or especial equipment that cannot easily be improvised, so, I've been working with the eye plug on the support side of the bridge to move my glasses to the proper position. I have yet to shoot and aqt with it but I haven't had issue with front sight / target blur on the 25m or 100m lines.
I am attaching another graphic that illustrates the difference a little better. The red line with the red dot is the center of focus for each type of glasses. The blue dot is the slightly raised center of focus. You can see on the larger lens that there is a lot of room to manipulate where the center is placed, and that the peripheral vision is unobstructed unlike in the pair on the right. In the second example, the narrow pair allows less room to adjust, and if your head is tilted you will not only see the rim of the glasses but your eyes will be way off of the center of focus. The trick is to find a frame that fits you well that doesn't bump the stock.
Here is the thread on adaptive sighting: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=14010.0
I have a post about halfway down where I have attached a document on how to modify existing glasses.
UL
Thank you UL that is really interesting. I'm gonna experiment on my old glasses to see if it would work to make them better indoor range glasses!
Well it's been an interesting test for me this past couple of weeks trying to get a handle on shooting with poor vision. Not only do I have astigmatism I have blind spots in both eyes which affect my ability to see target that are high and low. When I think I am shooting center mass, I'm not. I shoot low on the top targets and high on the bottom targets.
So as i mentioned I got prescription glasses with the adjusted focus which made a huge difference in clarity but it does not address astigmatism. I did try the shooters helper which is supposed to help, but it was really difficult to use because the glasses move, you move and your eye position moves depending on your body position in each phase.
So I went to the range today to try and work out some of the sighting issues and found something really interesting. I first shot squares to readjust my front sight. I tried shooting with both eyes open which meant I saw 2 pins and 4 targets (I was seeing double including doubles of the target next to mine) which was very confusing and tough to manage. I do better when I squint but then I blink. And no matter what adjustments I made, I shot the squares with the same poor pattern each time.
So I thought I would try to put a patch over my left eye and shoot with eyes open and voila... Instant improvement. I am attaching the targets I shot so you can see the difference. In the phase 4 targets, I had to readjust for my previous overcompensation, so they get better left to right. I marked the targets as to which have been shot with or without the patch in place.
This is not a new idea, but I had never tried it. As soon as I got on the sights, because I was essentially blind in one eye, my dominant eye took over and the rear sight aperture acted like a pinhole camera to make my eye focus differently.
My solution is simple. You can buy one already made for about the same cost as making it yourself. I made my own by taking a clip on, removing the right lens, and spray painting the left lens with black matte opaque (photo attached). It flips up for when I'm not shooting. Here is a link to a company that sells them in different colors and opacity. http://theshootersbox.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=546
Awhile back I also got a pair of eyeglasses just for shooting. I wish I had though about placing the point of view higher. If you have really bad vision, you definitely need to avoid wrap-around type lenses or lens shapes which are too wide (which create more than usual distortion beyond the center). You really want the lenses to be as parallel as possible (think old fashioned type glasses). After experimenting, I also prefer a yellow tint. It really helps with contrast on bright days, though I'd stick with my normal clear glasses if it's really cloudy.
Quote from: DwightC on September 19, 2013, 10:21:44 PM
Awhile back I also got a pair of eyeglasses just for shooting. I wish I had though about placing the point of view higher. If you have really bad vision, you definitely need to avoid wrap-around type lenses or lens shapes which are too wide (which create more than usual distortion beyond the center). You really want the lenses to be as parallel as possible (think old fashioned type glasses). After experimenting, I also prefer a yellow tint. It really helps with contrast on bright days, though I'd stick with my normal clear glasses if it's really cloudy.
Yes Dwight exactly right about the wrap around and distortion. I also wanted to avoid the glasses steaming up which they do here in Georgia thanks to our crazy humidity. So I got old fashioned glasses with fairly flat lenses just as you mentioned and they work great.
It was interesting that the site I linked to talks about the opaque and translucent and different colors, and that some people feel that the patches that allow some light in let your seeing eye work with less strain. I'm ordering a couple to test them out.
I had a pair of shooting and a pair fishing glasses made the same way. The fishing glasses has a smaller are on the bottom allowing me to see while tying knots, baiting hooks, etc. The larger upper part gave better vision for watching lakes and rivers. They work great.
The same principle reversed applied to a pair of shooting glasses.
Quote from: Ringer68 on September 19, 2013, 10:56:23 PM
It was interesting that the site I linked to talks about the opaque and translucent and different colors, and that some people feel that the patches that allow some light in let your seeing eye work with less strain. I'm ordering a couple to test them out.
G. David Tubb (11-time National High Power Rifle Champion), in his book "Highpower Rifle", describes putting a piece of frosted tape, like Scotch Magic, on the lens for the non-shooting eye, just over the area where the line of sight passes through when he is in position. This allows him to look through his spotting scope out of the corner of his eye without the tape interfering with his vision.