Just saw where a case (5250 rounds) of Federal 36 gr .22LR ammo just sold for $1025 a case on gunbroker. Thats $0.195 cents a piece.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=325263329
Also there is a case of CCI mini mags (1000 rounds) for sale with 2 days left currently at $265 a thousand which is $26.50 a hundred.
I have brought a lot of newbies to Appleseed events and loaned them a rifle and gave them a brick of $20 ammo for free. The days of FREE ammo are over when it will cost you $100 for .22LR ammo. I'm not sure how some folks will be able to aford to shoot at an Appleseed event if this high price .22 ammo continues especially if a family brings a couple of kids to shoot.
My 4-H rifle students shoot pellet rifles and if the high prices of ammo continues maybe Appleseed should consider using pellet rifles and cheap ammo.
Playing the devils advocate here. Capitalism, it's worth what someone is willing to pay. Is the seller evil or the buyer a fool? I say neither. If the buyer believes it is worth that much then he is getting his moneys worth.
My 2 cents.
CH
That form of Capitalism will hurt our numbers on the line. I think we are going to be challenged to bring people in this year. Can't find any for sale by retailers, just the Capitalists on Gun Broker.
PK
It's not the Capitalism that is preventing you from finding ammo. It's the shortage. If there was no shortage, he could not ask for so much. I think the shortage is because so many people have been buying it up. So, it's out there somewhere. Hopefully folks that will show up at Appleseed have scooped it all up...
CH
You will always see exceptional prices at auction sites like Gunbroker.
The current frenzy has made me appreciate the companies that don't jack the prices up to what the market will bear.
SGAmmo.com and Palmetto State Armory are two such companies. Unfortunately they run out of stock shortly after putting it out for sale....you have to be quick.
As a wise shoot boss told me recently - "its not a supply problem, its a distribution problem" - there's too much stockpiling and not enough Appleseeding going on :( .
Quote from: CharlieHotel on January 25, 2013, 04:25:36 PM
Is the seller evil or the buyer a fool? I say neither.
Although it seems counterintuitive, if you analyze it, saying "neither" or saying "both" are ultimately equivalent.
Perhaps not "evil" or "foolish" but rather "greedy" and "fiscally irrational" would be a more accurate description.
I gotta case of CMP White box Rem. >:D
Let me know when the price gets to $2,000. #)
Always wanted an Anschultz. @)
2 clicks low
Glad I gave RangeRat the "look" to grab another case when we were vacationing over Christmas. Should've grabbed the rest of it to share with the locals here in "outta ammoland". Walmart is decimated; even the hunting calibers.
Walmart said they were not buying any more ammunition. When there stocks are gone they will not be replaced.
Day after the election a dealer I know called to order ammo. Their whole sale price was their normal retail price. They didn't order. Called back at lunch time to order after discussing it. The distributor was out of ammo.
Another dealer I know had bricks of CCI blazers but it was one brick per customer per day.
We are dealing with scaricity. There will be market prices or there will be rationing which leads to shortages. You must sell at your replacement cost plus profit or you will be out of business. What is better 20 cent a round .22 or no .22? Guns are next to useless with out ammo. I can make a much better club or spear for that matter.
Go buy a bag of shot and see what lead prices have jumped to. Even when the ammo comes back it will be at a higher price. Much of this is due to political and economic reasons that are present day politics and I will not discuss here.
Some of it is hoarding but a lot of it are new gun owners and people that have had guns in the closet for years but haven't been shooting realizing they should go buy a couple boxes of shells.
If you are serious about shooting the .22, you have to order ammo when it is available. For example Eric Uptagrafft of the AMU was shooting Eley ammo that he bought in quantity in the early 1990s as late as 2008. When that supply began to become depleted he began testing for a replacement.
The silhouette shooters that I know find the ammunition that their rifle likes and then order it by the case. The same for the Bullseye shooters with their .22's. In many cases inexpensive ammunition like CCI standard works fine for these purposes in bolt rifles and tuned pistols. When I found Mini-Mags for $6/100, I would buy several boxes each week. I can't shoot them in target guns but they work great in conversions, 10/22's and other semi-auto rifles.
I won't be paying .19 a round for federal because I can find good Eley for .11 to .14. But I shoot a bolt gun and it may not cycle your semi-auto reliably. You could try going in with some friends and getting a case of Aguila Match from CMP. Both types cycle my 10/22's and all of the others that I have tried it in. The problem is that the wait is 120 days. Check the cmp website for details. http://odcmp.com/Sales/ammo.htm#Aguila22. Last October, CMP announced that it had 60 million rounds (12000 5k round cases) of Remington White Box .22 LR Target ammo from a Military contract from 1995 for $125 per case. It sold in 4 days.
Now you know what can happen. Don't let it happen to you again.
Anyone who wins an auction on gun broker, or ebay, can be confident that they are willing to pay more for the item than anyone else on the face of the planet.
We shooters are a tight fisted bunch, dealers have to work hard to eke out a small profit. When the fear of legislation hits, more power to the dealers who manage their affairs in a manner that keep them in business.
Supply will catch up with demand again.
How many of us will walk by a display of cheap .22s and think it would be OK to pick some up later?
My local dealer told me to not expect to see any bulk 22 for the rest of the year. Manufacturers are concentrating on the higher end product lines. They make more profit on "target" ammo than plinking ammo and the same machines are used to make it. Scheel's only had 22 shorts last time I was there.
yesterday this outfit had Blazzer for $22.00 Today this is one of their selections.
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1047.html
Our local farm store had a bunch of CCI mini mags on the shelf for the normal price.
Thanks for the heads up.
Quote from: colycat on January 27, 2013, 11:33:46 PM
yesterday this outfit had Blazzer for $22.00 Today this is one of their selections.
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product1047.html
Our local farm store had a bunch of CCI mini mags on the shelf for the normal price.
Out of stock now. I only wanted 5000.
One of our local shops had .22LR in stock last week when I stopped by.
American Eagle 500rd brick - $35
CCI mini mag 1600rd dry box - $160
Federal bulk pack 4000rd case - $299
I've seen it at the shows for right around $35/brick. The stuff is still out there. Just have to look a little more.
Our local Walmart got a shipment of bulk .22LR in this morning. I was able to pick up 3000 rounds. They are still getting ammo in they just don't know what will be in the shipment. I made friends with the guy and the ammo cage and he lets me know when stuff comes in.
Happy to report I was wrong Wal-mart is ordering ammo. Grove City PA got a shippment of Federal Auto match in last night. unfortunatly the truck wasn't there yet when I was in the store.
Limit of three boxes. Was at regular price of $14.?? for 325.
Stopped in at the NRA Whittington Center to pick up a loaner 10/22 I bought online.
The program director talked to all their sources (and they are a vast amount). He said there was a lead (resource) shortage and ammo will be in short supply.
The stuff that is now dribbling in was still in the pipeline.
I will check Wally world tomorrow.
My local dude is out of .22LR now. Said his distributor told him it'd be like 3 months before he gets any more. If the online sources are to be believed, we're going to see a shipment here and there and it'll be gone within hours.
Make friends with the ammo guy!
QuoteI'm not sure how some folks will be able to aford to shoot at an Appleseed event if this high price .22 ammo continues especially if a family brings a couple of kids to shoot.
Yeah. I'm looking at a weekend for two and unless I hit the jackpot, I keep coming up with $260+ for 2000rds if I'm lucky. I'm not sure that's going to work. In fact I'm pretty sure that won't work.
Quote from: Expressman on March 25, 2013, 04:00:07 PM
Yeah. I'm looking at a weekend for two and unless I hit the jackpot, I keep coming up with $260+ for 2000rds if I'm lucky. I'm not sure that's going to work. In fact I'm pretty sure that won't work.
Even now, you can still do better than 13 cents a round, that is really much too expensive, unless you're looking at high grade match ammo. But if you find .22 for less than 10 cents a round, buy some. Even after manufacturers catch up and availability returns, the days of dirt cheap .22 are probably over. The increase in world population and higher overall demand, plus the decrease in supply due to increased mining regulation, means that prices have risen for all metals. Based on commodities futures, I doubt if we'll see .22 for less than 6 or 7 cents a round in the next 12 months, for the exact same quality I bought for only 1.2 cents a round last summer.
But economics is one thing, and Appleseed is quite another.
Expressman, if you're "looking at a weekend for two", you won't need 2000 rounds unless you're stocking up to attend several Appleseeds. (Which actually sounds like a very good idea!) I don't think our round counts were ever that high, and most Shoot Bosses are being much more careful these days due to the ammo shortage, while still providing the same high quality of instruction.
(Besides, I just went shooting with someone two days ago, and we spent 10 hours at the range, and practiced for 9 hours straight, without even taking a lunch break, and we skipped the planned dry fire exercises entirely in favor of more shooting, and he just told me that he still only shot 200 rounds!)
Expressman, if you will PM me which Appleseeds you are interested in attending, with locations and dates, I will help you contact the Shoot Bosses for those events and find out their planned round counts for those weekends. (I'm guessing that you'll get at least 3 Appleseed weekends for the two of you out of those 2000 rounds.) Does that help to alleviate your financial concerns?
QuoteDoes that help to alleviate your financial concerns?
It does, thanks. All your information says bring 500rds per person per day to be on the safe side. That's how I got 2,000.
I don't think its really necessary to contact the shoot boss. I have GunBot set up to honk at me if a decent deal pops up.
How many grains is recommended?
Quote from: Expressman on March 25, 2013, 08:11:30 PM
All your information says bring 500rds per person per day to be on the safe side. That's how I got 2,000.
That was written long before the shortage, as a one-size-fits-all answer. Round counts can vary from Shoot Boss to Shoot Boss, and from event to event, but the points of instruction remain consistent.
Quote
How many grains is recommended?
Whatever you can get is fine. Whatever your rifle seems to like best is the best choice. Every rifle is unique, even those made one after the other on the same production line! My rifle likes 36 grain, my friend's rifle likes 40 grain, with enough experimentation you'll learn how to figure out what your particular rifle likes best.
Please feel free to PM me if you need any assistance registering or preparing for your Appleseed!