Hello Group: How do you bring your brass back to the new look and gleam it once had. Tumble Vibrate, Wash rinse repeat what ever old reloader method. Just want to compair notes. ;D J. Papineau
If the brass has tarnished from water/moisture, it will never shine like new. It is dark all the way through. Just tumble it with Dillon Rapid Shine. I buy LCM (Lost Circulation Material aka walnut hull) from the local oilfield supply. Forget jeweler's rouge, abrasives, and ammonia.
I've used corncob medium and Dillon's or Midway polish, in a vibratory cleaner. Walnut shells are supposed to clean faster, never used them.
Works great with lightly-tarnished cases. Darkly tarnished ones never look like new but work OK.
I even tumble loaded rounds. Bought a bunch of POF .303 and it was grimy, dirty, just plain nasty looking, but it shoots well. Now that it's clean, it feeds and extracts as it should, plus it doesn't leave your hands looking as though you just rebuilt a transmission.
I've never tumbled loaded rounds, but have heard that's not such a good idea. Glad you came out OK.
Supposedly, even if a bullet doesn't hit a primer and blow up your tumbler, too much agitation can break up the granules of powder and make it into a faster-burning powder that'll make your rifle go KA-BOOM if everything happens just wrong.
If loaded ammo is too groady to clean up by hand with a scotch-brite, I think it's best to break it down.
Obviously, your mileage has varied.
I believe that the "don't tumble loaded rounds" thing is an urban legend. Probably makes sense if you have a cement-mixer sized tumbler, not so much otherwise. I tumbled 1500 rds of pretty yucky Hirt and used it to become a rifleman. No problems attributable to tumbling.
When you look at all of the vibration that loaded ammo is subject to, particularly in a military environment, an hour or less in the tumbler isn't even a drop in the bucket.
Smokeless powder is more akin to little bits of plastic than actual "powder". Would pretty much have to deliberately try to reduce grain size after manufacture. Most likely downside to tumbling is loosening of the bullet in the case neck, leading to inconsistent case neck tension and degraded accuracy. I know that some of the Hirt had bullets that I could turn with my fingers, but if I couldn't pull them out I didn't cull them. Should have re-crimped, but my reloading bench wasn't set up at the time...(7.62x51 was .15/ea then).
Now, black powder cartridges might be a different matter...
SoM
Apparently the jury is still out. I plan on pulling a few bullets to see what interior changes, if any, have taken place. Since this ammo is loaded with cordite and a top wad, I doubt that there is enough room for much movement inside the case. A friend has a chronograph, we'll see what happens. This thread is pretty informative for those interested.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-156750.html
Veeery interesting. Mayhaps the "conventional wisdom" advice is full of hooey. No direct experience.
To keep your vibratory polishing media scouring efficiently, add a roughly 6x6 piece of cloth to each batch. Can be cotton or synthetic. The idea here is that, over time, the surface of the polishing media granules gets covered with case lube solids and grit. The more granule coverage, the less efficient the polishing action. The cloth patch hogs up a huge amount of polishing debris that would otherwise remain on your cases or reside on the media surface.
Dryer sheets, used, are good for this. Throw the patch away with each batch of brass you tumble.
Quote from: Francis Marion on July 20, 2008, 11:16:56 PM
To keep your vibratory polishing media scouring efficiently, add a roughly 6x6 piece of cloth to each batch. Can be cotton or synthetic. The idea here is that, over time, the surface of the polishing media granules gets covered with case lube solids and grit. The more granule coverage, the less efficient the polishing action. The cloth patch hogs up a huge amount of polishing debris that would otherwise remain on your cases or reside on the media surface.
Dryer sheets, used, are good for this. Throw the patch away with each batch of brass you tumble.
Haven't thought of that.
Good idea.
Thanks.
Well, broke one of the POF .303s down. The top wad was undisturbed, not a single strand of the cordite was broken. I think, for this at least, it's ok.
On vibration of loaded ammo. For what is worth I had some 1957 yugoslavian m-2 ball ammo rideing in my truck (18 wheeler) for about 50,000 miles (give or take a 1000) and found no defrance between that and the other old yugo ammo.
Wade
I mix walnut and corncob media. The walnut to get the hard crud off and the corncob polishes a little better. Throw in some Dillon case polish and it's good to go. I don't use Brasso or any other ammonia-based cleaner because they supposedly can weaken the brass. Instead of a cloth to keep the media clean, I just cut a dryer sheet (Bounce or whatever) into strips. Works pretty well and it's cheap and easy to replace. I usually run the cases in the tumbler for an hour after getting back from the range to get the big chunks off, then put the cases in a plastic bag and squirt in some case lube, then do a shake-n-bake with them to coat evenly. After sizing, trimming, etc. they go back in the tumbler for a couple of hours to remove the lube and get a nice polish. Then annealing if necessary and priming. The only problem with this method is that media will always get stuck in the flash hole in a lot of cases and you have to knock the piece out with a paperclip or something before priming.
Sounds to me that if there IS a problem, it's more likely to occur with IMR-type extruded/cut powders than with real cordite in full-length sticks.
We live and learn.
Quote from: Spatulaman on July 20, 2008, 09:36:28 PM
Apparently the jury is still out. I plan on pulling a few bullets to see what interior changes, if any, have taken place. Since this ammo is loaded with cordite and a top wad, I doubt that there is enough room for much movement inside the case. A friend has a chronograph, we'll see what happens. This thread is pretty informative for those interested.
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-156750.html
Amplification: There is NO room inside a loaded round of this stuff. I should have known that at the beginning. Cordite is loaded into the case before it is sized. The top wad sits on top of the propellant at the base of the neck. The bullet (in this case, a 174 gr. Mk7) is, for all intents and purposes, against the wad. Cordite is not granular, it is long slender strands- in this case, from head to case shoulder, all bundled together like a batch of broomstraws. Most mil-spec .303 is loaded this way. CMIIW, but I don't think the Brits went to "conventional" powders until they adopted the 7.62x51.
More on Cordite than you really wanted to know.
http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/COM_COR/CORDITE.html
Quote from: Spatulaman on July 21, 2008, 08:49:44 PM
Amplification: There is NO room inside a loaded round of this stuff. I should have known that at the beginning. Cordite is loaded into the case before it is sized. The top wad sits on top of the propellant at the base of the neck. The bullet (in this case, a 174 gr. Mk7) is, for all intents and purposes, against the wad. Cordite is not granular, it is long slender strands- in this case, from head to case shoulder, all bundled together like a batch of broomstraws. Most mil-spec .303 is loaded this way. CMIIW, but I don't think the Brits went to "conventional" powders until they adopted the 7.62x51.
Spatulaman,
The Brits had a good amount of ammo loaded with IMR type powders. it was mostly reserved for machine guns since it did not eat the barrel throats as quickly as Cordite as it did not burn as hot as Cordite.
They actually gave it a separate name to help differentiate it, it was called Mk VIIz for the IMR type powders and plain Mk VII for the cordite loaded ball.
They also had some Mk VIII for machine guns only and a good bit of it was loaded with IMR type powder as, I think, Mk VIIIz.
The z designation generally stood for nitrocellulose powder.
Buckshot
I tumble with walnut shells, and after sizing, tumble with conrcob to remove the lube residue.
I use ceramic media for cleaning brass. I started using it when I began shooting black powder cartridge. It works way better than corn cobs and walnut hulls for me
VAshooter.
Quote from: Buckshot on July 21, 2008, 11:46:12 PM
Quote from: Spatulaman on July 21, 2008, 08:49:44 PM
Amplification: There is NO room inside a loaded round of this stuff. I should have known that at the beginning. Cordite is loaded into the case before it is sized. The top wad sits on top of the propellant at the base of the neck. The bullet (in this case, a 174 gr. Mk7) is, for all intents and purposes, against the wad. Cordite is not granular, it is long slender strands- in this case, from head to case shoulder, all bundled together like a batch of broomstraws. Most mil-spec .303 is loaded this way. CMIIW, but I don't think the Brits went to "conventional" powders until they adopted the 7.62x51.
Spatulaman,
The Brits had a good amount of ammo loaded with IMR type powders. it was mostly reserved for machine guns since it did not eat the barrel throats as quickly as Cordite as it did not burn as hot as Cordite.
They actually gave it a separate name to help differentiate it, it was called Mk VIIz for the IMR type powders and plain Mk VII for the cordite loaded ball.
They also had some Mk VIII for machine guns only and a good bit of it was loaded with IMR type powder as, I think, Mk VIIIz.
The z designation generally stood for nitrocellulose powder.
Buckshot
Hmm, and I've always been told that the Mk7 designation was for the bullet type- (spitzer, AL tip filler to make it long-for-length, and thus initiating a faster yaw cycle. The Brits really liked this theory, that's how they ended up with the .38/200 revolver load.)
Learn something new every day. Thanks!
Mark VII is the designator for the bullet, but it also has a larger, flat primer (used more priming compound for better ignition in hot climates). Mk VII uses cordite, MkVIIz uses IMR stick type powder. It was adopted in 1907 IIRC. Mark VI used a cupronickel bullet, winchester type primer (round bottom) and cordite. It was adopted in the 1880s. Mk V was the notorious 'Dum Dum' bullet, made at the British Arsenal at Dum Dum, India. It had a hollow point. The Mark IV was the standard, even after the MkV was available, because the Mk V was considered by the British military to be unsportsmanlike. Mk I, II, and III were developmental rounds, not in general issue. All this is IIRC, of course. Feel free to point out my errors.
Here I am, resurrecting another thread...
I use corncob with a capful of NuFinish car polish... brings everything back to a nice shine.
I reload a lot of ammo and the treatment it gets varies.
When I do a load of nasty brass, it get a soak for 30 minutes in 5% acetic acid(white vinegar) then a rinse with warm water. That will remove 90 % of all grunge. Then I polish in ground corncob. Depending on batch size it goes in either my cement mixer, a home made tumbler with a 15 gal drum or an RCBS vibratory.
When I have really nasty stuff (been laying on the range since 1955) I throw it in the cement mixer with a shovel full of clean masonry sand for 15 minutes, rinse off and treat like everything else.
Sam
I use Nickle's method. With the walnut media a couple of
teaspoons of NuFinish. I also add a half a sheet of clothes
refreshioner dryer sheets. It picks up the nasties like unburnt
powder and dirt. It keeps the media fresh and the contamin-
ation down. Not tru :)e that water stained brass goes plumb
through the case. If it comes out stained, it gets steel wooled
and returned. Really bad may take a couple of trips. When all
are sized, corn cob with a little added polish ends with a gleam.
priming, powder, and the seating of the bullet disturbs this fin-
ish little or none at all