Do primers and powder have a shelf life? I recently stumbled upon a gold mine of left behind reloading components in my new house. It seems the late gentlemen that lived here liked .223 and 9mm. I have unopened cans of Hecules Bullseye and Win 748 and 4k winchester small rifle primers and a box of winchester small pistol primers (old yellow, orange and white boxes). Also, do you think modern reloading manual info is good for these? Do companies change their recipe every so often or do they just make new lines of powder? Thanks.
Quote from: Nukehayes on November 18, 2012, 04:22:01 PM
Do primers and powder have a shelf life? I recently stumbled upon a gold mine of left behind reloading components in my new house. It seems the late gentlemen that lived here liked .223 and 9mm. I have unopened cans of Hecules Bullseye and Win 748 and 4k winchester small rifle primers and a box of winchester small pistol primers (old yellow, orange and white boxes). Also, do you think modern reloading manual info is good for these? Do companies change their recipe every so often or do they just make new lines of powder? Thanks.
You can contact the manufacturers to find out for sure, but I doubt if there is a problem with loading these components as long as they have been sealed up and dry. I'd offer to take them off your hands but shipping powder and primer has high costs due to hazmat.
They are most likley okay.
Any manafacture you contact would be obligated to tell you to dispose of it properly, and buy more.
If the primers go bang they are OK.
If the powder is not "rusty" dusty, clumpy it should be Okay.
If the powder cans were opened, check to see if it appears to be the same color and grain texture as a known (as in purchased by you) powder of the same manafacture with the same number or name.
It is possible the ole guy poured some other type of powder in those cans.
The tins are all still factory sealed. I was just wondering if powder breaks down chemically over time, but given your answers, I think they will be fine.
Just FYI Nukehayes:
Absolutely everything "breaks down chemically over time," given enough time. Oxygen is a chemical accelerant, which is why the cans are sealed airtight, since the seal dramatically slows (rather than stops) the reaction. Eventually, even with an intact seal, oxygen molecules pass right through the metal can, but that takes a really, really long time.
Many "shelf-stable" survival items are packed in nitrogen, instead of vacuum sealed. One reason is to purge all of the oxygen, the other reason is to delay oxygen from entering right through the can by applying internal pressure.
Your cans should probably be fine, but as with ANY chemical experiment, best to start out cautiously.
You say the powder is in "tins"?
- Likely they are different as you suspect, so any perfect load you develop may be hard to duplicate with new components.
- Yes, you should find the manual for the time period your powder was produced. They change formulas.
- Seals will appear to be unopened given enough time in extremes of heat and humidity. Appearing unopened does not equate to unopened.
- You have no idea what conditions the supplies were stored under previously, only the conditions you found them stored under.
The emergency room visit and replacement rifle will far exceed the cost of a new can of powder. Sell the stuff to a collector.
Just my two cents. Not right, not wrong, but I will not be sending a get well card. ;)
YHJ
Congratulations on your find, sir!
Use it, be grateful, and don't be scared. I've used 40 year-old plus powder, primers, and loaded ammo myself many times successfully.
With the powder, as always, you should start low and work your way up looking for pressure signs while trying to find the sweet spot (accuracy-wise) in the charge. If it's a powder you have used in the past, you may find that you have to tweak your load a little due to a slightly different burn rate.
Don't be afraid of the primers at all.
Enjoy!
If you are needing any old reference materials, I have books dating from the 60's. I have many 1st edition from manufacturers as well as obsolete manufacturers. If you are needing anything, I can scan it and email it to you.
I used some old Winchester 450LS for a couple of decades that dated back to the mid 50's and never had a problem. Still have some reloads from the late 80"s that I haven't even used yet.
Jason
Quote from: Nukehayes on November 19, 2012, 01:06:28 PM
The tins are all still factory sealed. I was just wondering if powder breaks down chemically over time, but given your answers, I think they will be fine.
I think most of the books/people will say that when powder goes bad, it has a funky smell/look. Chances are, if it looks/smells normal then its good to go.
Man, I haven't had an attack of jealousy for a while.
Free powder and primers? Must be nice!
I'd start at the low end of the power curve to be safe, but that stuff is probably fine if it looks OK.
google is your friend
search term:
"what does smokeless powder smell like when it goes bad"
answer:
http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/2701444/page/3
Say, on a similar note - So I got this reloading kit passed on to me. Got excited and ended up priming 50rds of .45, about a year or so ago. Set 'em in a tray and well, they're still there.
Being that they've been open and exposed, what is the likely hood that they've gone bad?
Simple test - put one in a Thompson SMG (or a pistol, i guess) and see if it goes "bang"
Quote from: AFTERMATH on January 12, 2013, 07:14:36 PM
Say, on a similar note - So I got this reloading kit passed on to me. Got excited and ended up priming 50rds of .45, about a year or so ago. Set 'em in a tray and well, they're still there.
Being that they've been open and exposed, what is the likely hood that they've gone bad?
When you load them, make sure they do not go into storage as good ammo, go shoot then right away.
My past experience it that primed cases sitting on the bench for long periods of time make good ball and dummy training ammo,
except too many of them work to be excellent ball and dummy training ammo. No coach needed.
Quote from: BD on January 12, 2013, 09:17:32 PM
Simple test - put one in a Thompson SMG (or a pistol, i guess) and see if it goes "bang"
Can I borrow yours? ^-^
Quote from: Mark Davis on January 13, 2013, 10:27:35 AM
Quote from: AFTERMATH on January 12, 2013, 07:14:36 PM
Say, on a similar note - So I got this reloading kit passed on to me. Got excited and ended up priming 50rds of .45, about a year or so ago. Set 'em in a tray and well, they're still there.
Being that they've been open and exposed, what is the likely hood that they've gone bad?
When you load them, make sure they do not go into storage as good ammo, go shoot then right away.
My past experience it that primed cases sitting on the bench for long periods of time make good ball and dummy training ammo,
except too many of them work to be excellent ball and dummy training ammo. No coach needed.
B&D would be beneficial - My XD doesn't offer the malfunction drill practice that my Llama used to... I guess my biggest concern would have been hangfires or possibly increased chamber pressure. If there's no worries in that area I guess it'll be :~ :~ :~ :~ :~ :~
Hang fire is a genuine concern, thanks for bringing it up. I do not know the enviroment of your bench. I live in a very dry climate, my bench is in a tight room dedicated to reloading and gun stuff. very occonassionly a bit of oil or gun cleaning solvent will get airborne in there.
Quote from: Mark Davis on January 14, 2013, 12:47:16 AM
Hang fire is a genuine concern, thanks for bringing it up. I do not know the enviroment of your bench. I live in a very dry climate, my bench is in a tight room dedicated to reloading and gun stuff. very occonassionly a bit of oil or gun cleaning solvent will get airborne in there.
Some might describe the environment as hostile. Temperature and humidity extremes - Smoke, dust and most likely airborne solvents... Sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off living in a tent. %)
Quote from: AFTERMATH on January 14, 2013, 08:32:21 PM
Quote from: Mark Davis on January 14, 2013, 12:47:16 AM
Hang fire is a genuine concern, thanks for bringing it up. I do not know the enviroment of your bench. I live in a very dry climate, my bench is in a tight room dedicated to reloading and gun stuff. very occonassionly a bit of oil or gun cleaning solvent will get airborne in there.
Some might describe the environment as hostile. Temperature and humidity extremes - Smoke, dust and most likely airborne solvents... Sometimes I wonder if I'd be better off living in a tent. %)
Bring 'em on over to Taylor & Dicey's 25m backyard range and see if they go boom.
If something is wrong with these components,
it is not a time related incident;
but an event related incident that can and will cause properties to change.(ie.. Air moisture,or exteame temp.)