I know the rule for M1s and reloading is to stick as close as possible to M2 Ball standards, which I'll be doing when I reload for my M1.
My question is, are 1903-series rifles (to include the Mk.1 and 03A3) as sensitive to pressure differences? what's the "unsafe" threshhold on these?
As long as you don't have a "low number" 1903 (check CMP for exact numbers), then any safe 30-06 load will work.
The M1 is sensitive to port pressure, and some otherwise safe loads have high port pressure, especially heavy bullets or slow powder. High port pressure wreaks havoc with the operating rod and action, and is potentially dangerous. The bolt action, not having a gas port, is indifferent to this.
As with any milsurp weapon there are many truths and not so trues.
I have seen many under 800,000 used without incident. The matter
was one of heat treating rather than any design flaw. A one in ten
twist barrel handles about anything with reasonable to excellent
accuracy in 100 to 180 grain bullets (Have not had a reason to use
heavier). Due to the bullet's gases are not used to function the
rifle's action, you can start with moderate loads and increase the
powder when you find a sweet spot or pressure indicators tell ya, stop.
You will find that the highest velocities will most likely NOT be the
most accurate. Follow any currant loading manual ! The two groove
barrels will shoot every bit as accurate as the early 03s. ;D
Quote from: Oohrah on June 20, 2007, 03:50:16 PM
As with any milsurp weapon there are many truths and not so trues.
I have seen many under 800,000 used without incident. The matter
was one of heat treating rather than any design flaw.
100% correct. If they were as bad as some say, we would have lost WW1, due to casualties, and the 1917 would have been kept, not the 1903.
That being said, if you have an early 1903, the heat treat method is flawed, and the rifle should become a wall hanger. Not worth the risk to shoot it, as a replacement can be had reasonably enough. CMP was selling 1903's for $400.
(Edited to add that M1A4ME says they were $500 this April. I checked, and they're currently out of them and won't have any until 2009. I doubt they will be $500, either, as they went up $100 in less than 1 year, mine was $400 in early 2006.)
For what it's worth; many years ago they used to say that having a full case (possibly even slightly compressed powder loads) contributed to better accuracy. Won't go into the reasons here (even if I could remember all of them). The most accurate loads I ever shot in my Springfield was IMR4350 powder (burning rate too slow for M1's or M1A's - don't ask me how I know) with Sierra 180 grn. HPBT bullets and Federal benchrest primers. These were for longer ranges.
You know, my father says the same thing. 8)
Truth be known, several other folks have said the same thing, including IIRC, George Nonte.
Now myself, I use 4895. But, then, I have 2 Springfields and an M1, and don't care to keep the ammo separated for each rifle. But, YMMV, if you have a 1903 or 03-A3, and don't own an M1, use the slower powder, it will work better.
Quote from: Nickle on June 20, 2007, 04:14:07 PM
Quote from: Oohrah on June 20, 2007, 03:50:16 PM
As with any milsurp weapon there are many truths and not so trues.
I have seen many under 800,000 used without incident. The matter
was one of heat treating rather than any design flaw.
100% correct. If they were as bad as some say, we would have lost WW1, due to casualties, and the 1917 would have been kept, not the 1903.
That being said, if you have an early 1903, the heat treat method is flawed, and the rifle should become a wall hanger. Not worth the risk to shoot it, as a replacement can be had reasonably enough. CMP was selling 1903's for $400.
(Edited to add that M1A4ME says they were $500 this April. I checked, and they're currently out of them and won't have any until 2009. I doubt they will be $500, either, as they went up $100 in less than 1 year, mine was $400 in early 2006.)
Wow they are out already? They were packed to the walls with them when I went in mid-April(the exact date they ran out of Garands, but I wasn't there for them). Glad I got mine when I did.
Yup, the M1's were out, so folks took the next best thing.
They're out of about everything right now, no M1's, 03's, 03-A3's, 1917's or M1 Carbines.
My recollection is that the reason given for full cases being more accurate was a consistent burn from the powder whereas a case that wasn't full had different burn patterns depending on where the powder was in the case when ignited, i.e. laying flat with space on the top, etc. Seems like it would make sense but who knows?
When the last batch of 1903s were sold this year, I got two 1903A3s from CMP. BUT, the ones I got were the chromed and plated ones. Kinda looks like a pimp's rifle with the white painted stock, but the one of the two I have fired shot quite well and at $400 for the two of them, it seemed like to good a deal to pass up. Colonial Shooter gave me some stock stripper but I just haven't gotten around to that as of yet. Wouldn't it be neat to show up at a match with one? ;D
Do that, and I'll have a wise crack for you about either being a pimp, or using a "Nickel plated sissy rifle".
Nickle,
They are NOT out of M1 Garands long term and may well have more Springfields (mostly repossessed from defunct veterans groups) but in the short term they don't have the time to check them while getting the M1 Carbines moving and sold.
They THOUGHT they had a backlog of M1 Garands large enough to last through the whole Carbine thing, demand went up and they didn't last through the first 5th of the Carbine work.
I second loading ALL the .30-06 to M2 Ball standards to keep non-standard loads out the M1 Garands if sorting should happen to fail.
Buckshot