Amongst shooters and instructors, at our last few shoots, we got to discussing all the various manufacturer "headstamps'' on the base of the clips.
Here is a quick guide to id many, if not all of them:
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~wolfsrus/clips/clips.html
What's important is what extractor groove style the clip was manufactured for.
There are 2 different extractor groove styles on 30-06 ammo. One is the tapered style like on 7.62 NATO brass the other is a more abrupt groove. The clips are not universally interchangeable. You will discover this when trying to load LC ammo in the clips that came with the Greek ammo from CMP.
I'll dig up the link and post it later.
Found it: http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24736&p=142891&viewfull=1#post142891 (http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24736&p=142891&viewfull=1#post142891)
Wow, thx!
TG
This topic has been beat to death.
First off, the Greeks DID NOT make any M1 clips. Not the first one.
The second is the claim about the extractor groove of late issue HXP and clips allegedly made for it. DID NOT HAPPEN. No one has ever explained why the extractor cut of the late issue ammo would require special clip. Certainly no one has produced any info about the clips. You would think that a different clip would require a different set of drawing to be used in there production. To date no such drawing has ever been produced. The 'groove' in the base of the clip keeps the round from moving forward. The rear, flat portion of the clip keeps the round from moving rearward. So just WHY would a different clip be required???
To those of you shooting 7.62 Garands, do you need to use 'special' clips to feed your ammo???
The problem clips are JMO 72. I have a couple of these in my stash. From my observations, the problem with these is simple; poor quality control. The feed lips are not formed as the USGI ones are. This causes the rounds t be 'bunched up' and not load properly.
The posted ink is not proof of anything other than the extractor cut on some cases is wider. Note that there is not one photo of the 'special' clips that the linked to cartridges are claimed to require. I'd pay money to see one.
Bottom line, say away from JMO 72 clips.
doug, thanks for that update.
Quote from: douglas34474 on October 13, 2012, 01:02:51 PM
This topic has been beat to death.
The 'groove' in the base of the clip keeps the round from moving forward. The rear, flat portion of the clip keeps the round from moving rearward. So just WHY would a different clip be required???
To those of you shooting 7.62 Garands, do you need to use 'special' clips to feed your ammo???
The problem clips are JMO 72. I have a couple of these in my stash. From my observations, the problem with these is simple; poor quality control. The feed lips are not formed as the USGI ones are. This causes the rounds t be 'bunched up' and not load properly.
The posted ink is not proof of anything other than the extractor cut on some cases is wider. Note that there is not one photo of the 'special' clips that the linked to cartridges are claimed to require. I'd pay money to see one.
That's kinda backward.....the ammo with the wide extractor groove works in any clip. No "special" clip is required. Mic the height of the stamped groove at the base of the clip. The JMO clips have a wider stamping in that area. side by side it's visible with the naked eye. The low groove brass spreads the clip at this point when loaded in these clips.
Why? Don't know but my guess is it didn't matter for the contract and it's easier on the tooling to stamp the wider ridge. Maybe it was mistranslated from inches to metric? Just something to be aware of if you're a Garand shooter.
Maybe someone over at the GCA has a better answer.
Then where is the drawing calling for the larger groove?
I've cut a JMO 72 in half, through the 'groove'. The part that holds the cartridge extractor cut is the same effective size as a properly stamped one. What you see from the outside of the clip is a wider radius due to a poorly stamped piece. INSIDE, where it counts, the groove is the same.
If you examine a JMO 72 you will see that the round portion of the feed lips does not transcend from the flat part of the clip's side into the curve at the quadrant of the round part of the stamping, tangent to the curve. They are misshapen, which crowds the loaded cartridges and the clip will not close up as it should.
It is not a special clip. Its just poor QC.
Same bottom line, avoid JMO 72 clips. Use USGI clips, they work every time.
I doubt that they made new stamping dies, of lower quality, every new year.
I for one would like to know why my latest batch of HXP either jams the 7th round or won't load the 8th.
I do believe it has something to do with the clips.
Quote from: Chainsaw on October 13, 2012, 07:37:22 PM
I for one would like to know why my latest batch of HXP either jams the 7th round or won't load the 8th.
I do believe it has something to do with the clips.
They don't feed right because the feed lips for the rifle are the top two curved portions of the clip. It they are not properly formed during the stamping process, the rifle will not reliably feed. Deform the feed lips on any mag fed firearm and see what happens. ;)
Throw those clips away.
I've not had any feeding problems with either of my two M1 Garands. I've shot the greek surplus ammo from CMP with no problems what so ever. It actually shoots reliably and I believe accurately. So, after reading the above posts, my curiosity got the best of me. I dumped out the 30 or so en bloc clips that are not currently loaded and discovered that there are probably at least a dozen different markings among them. Didn't find any JMO 72 marked clips. I also shoot the Hornady ammo loaded for the M1. I can't see so far that it shoots any different than the surplus greek stuff. But what I have noticed, because I pick up all the brass I shoot, is that the Hornady ammo is usually laying on the ground in a different place than the greek surplus ammo. And the two M1's put the same brand brass in different places and distances from the rifle. I'm curious if anyone else has noticed the same thing? I don't know that it means anything, maybe just different extractors. Any thoughts on this? This winter I plan to handload some ammo for the M1. Am thinking about starting with 42 grains of Varget behind a 150 grain bullet. Haven't decided what primer to use. Do any of you guys handload for the M1?
As long as the spent cases go out of the action, I don't care where they land. :)
The lubrication of the rifle, the strength of the ejector spring, the strength of the op rod spring, drag from the cartridges remaining in the clip, all play into where the spend case goes. The ejector spring keeps constant pressure on the base of the case and as soon as the case clears the chamber during the recoil cycle, the case starts to swing out and up from the action. If the op rod moves fast or slow (relatively speaking) where the case goes is effected. On some rifles th case will hit the op rod, leaving a brass mark on the cam hump.
I have loaded for M1s for 30+ years. I prefer H-380 ball to IMR-4895. Being a ball power it meters very will. Be sure to use a baffle in your powder measure. Also develop a consistent method of using the measure. I move the handle up and do a double tap against the stop to make sure the measuring chamber is full before dumping the charge into the prepped case..
I use CCI military grade primers. They are magnum grade and less sensitive to the impact from the floating firing pin hit of the M1.
Douglas34474, thanks for the M1 tips and info. After aquiring my first one, I've kicked myself a hundred times for not having one 30 years ago. Never enjoyed shooting as much as with an M1. I've not ran across military grade primers anywhere. Is it an online source? Also, I'm sure there are some cases that probably shouldn't be reloaded, but I wouldn't know which ones to throw out. What case lub would you recommend? I have had a problem with cases sticking in the die during the spent primer and sizing step. Actually, I've had enough problems handloading rifle cases, that I've probably been over cautious with it. I'm gettng off the topic here, en bloc clips, so I'll but out for now. Still watching for a thread about handloading. Thanks again. Rodge