I just received a new case cleaning machine from Thumlers. I got the Model B High Speed and use Stainless pin media with Lemi shine and Dawn dish soap. I had been using a Thumler vibratory tumbler with corn cob media & case polish for years and yes, it gets the cases clean on the outside, but the inside and the primer pocket never got the crud out. (even after 8 hours of tumbling!) This new "wet" tumbler is simply the best thing I have ever used for cleaning the brass cases before reloading. It cleans the outside (even the really cruddy range brass), the primer pockets and the inside of the case to spotless squeaky clean.
Before I was using a brass brush to remove the carbon from the necks so it wouldn't damage the expander in the die, and using a primer pocket cleaner to remove most of the heavy primer residue from the primer pocket. Now its just clean directly after tumbling. No additional steps needed. Here is what I do and if anybody else has any experience or suggestions with this type of tumbling I'd love to hear it.
1. Fill the tumbler with 5 lbs. of Stainless Media
2. Fill the tumbler with just under 1 gallon of the hottest water I can get from the faucet
3. Put in 2 tbs. of Dawn dish soap
4. Put in 1 tsp. of Lemi shine
5. Put in about 50 or so cases depending on the size (I use 8mm Mauser, 7.62x54R, 8x56RS)
6. Assemble the gasket, cover panel, and thumb screws
7. Run it on the machine for 4 hrs.
8. Remove the brass from the drum and dump the media out of the case as I remove it (make sure the media comes out, it's a B*&ch to pick up out of the sink)
9. Rinse the brass with clear water
10. Towel dry and then let air dry to make sure the water is out of the inside of the case
Then I lube the cases, size them, and trim them & run them through again using the same process above for about 2 hrs. to remove any case lube or brass shavings. Then they dry again and its prime, powder, bullet, bang! Then do it all over again.
Honestly the brass looks new when its done in the tumbler and it is well worth the investment. I got mine for about $220 delivered with the media and the machine. Lemi-shine is $3.50 a container and the Dawn I stole from the Wife.. (sorry honey...)
Anyway, I just started with this new thingy and would welcome any advice. I'll try and post some Pic.'s of the cases when i can.
Cheers,
Mauser
How about a shot of compressed air to make sure the media is out of the case?
Quote from: Stand on October 01, 2012, 08:46:19 PM
How about a shot of compressed air to make sure the media is out of the case?
Hey Stand,
Not a bad plan! It may help out with the drying on the inside of the case too if they get a little blast of dry compressed air to remove the stuck water drops. I do dump the cases over the drum as i remove them and dip the cases a few times in the left over water solution to rinse the media out, but that is a good idea indeed! I'll use it.
Thanks!
Mauser
Tumbling with SS media has been a closely held "secret" in some shooting communities for years; I've only been doing it for the last 3 years or so. Truly a way to find those gold nuggets in all that range brass you pack home. You won't believe how nasty the waste water is....
If you haven't tried it, just Google "Stainless Steel Tumbling" and you'll find many links on the subject. I've found the best way to get the media out is to pour the works into an RCBS media separator and tumble as needed. A couple of rinses and swishes with my hands in a 3-ish gallon bucket and I'm almost done. I finish with a rumen magnet to get the last of the SS media out of the bottom of the bucket and then spread them on a terry cloth towel in the sun to dry. Doesn't hurt to rock the brass back and forth in the towel either to dislodge any media or water drops (use magnet again as needed).
I use weight as a gauge for how much I load into the drum but I don't have my notes handy. I believe its a lot more than you're using though.
Have you gotten any pink brass yet? ;)
RR
Except for the problem with media stuck in necked brass, I also agree this is by far the best case cleaner I've ever seen. Yay Lemishine!
RangeRat - Pink Brass - YES! the first batch i left in the tumbler while I finished sleeping for the night (truth be told I was so excited to use it the first time I set an alarm to 0100 hrs.) SO it sat in the soup of nasty black water for more hours than i care to admit. When it came out and was dry I did notice some pink spots on the surface. It came off with a little scrub and steel wool so i did'nt panic. It was completly gone after the second tumble though. So I'm not alone!!! Or crazy!!!!
What causes the pink brass?!!?
Here are some photos of an 8x57 Mauser case that was in my first batch (not my best batch). It has been shot between 10 and 15 times and looks like this after cleaning in the Mod-B HS with the SS Media. WOW! It had caked on H414 residue that was on it pretty thick! Not getting a clean burn with this powder/bullet combo... But WOW! ya would never know it now!
I don't sweat it... No one wants my pink brass so there's never a squabble ;D
From AR15.com and NevadaShooters.com
First, the reason you are getting pink brass is not caused directly by Lemishine. Brass will rust when exposed to moisture and salt. However, for the sake of simplicity (since you are not a chemist), there are two different types of brass rust. The common type is black in color and this is dissolved by Lemishine. The other type of brass rust is red in color, Lemishine will not dissolve this and this is the reason why when a piece of brass that has both types of rust, it starts out looking black since the black rust basically covers everything. When you remove the black rust, this will reveal the red rust if it exists. This is the reason why it "looks" like Lemishine cause the red coloration when it actually only reveals it. This is also the reason why only some but not all brass has the red color after Lemishine - this is always the brass that looks the worst before cleaning. Look at the image posted by dryflash3, I can bet you anything that one red casing was a really old one he picked up.
I think you can use too much Lemishine, but not because it causes the brass to turn pink but because it is a waste of Lemishine. If Lemishine causes the red color, it will discolor ALL the brass and not the occasional brass- it obviousely does not. You can do some experiment yourself by cleaning the slightly dirty brass separately from the really tarnish stuff - you will find that the really tarnish stuff are always the ones that turns red.
RR
RangeRat - Thanks for the info on the pink brass. I will have to do some digging on that I see. It sounds like you know a thing or two about this process. Is the Lemi-Shine, Dawn dish soap combo the only and/or best thing to put into this "Electrified, Rubber Padded, Water Tight, Metal Drum of Brass Cleaning Goodness"? Or does anybody have another mix that works?
I use 2 squirts of Dawn and 2 .40's full of LemiShine. Add the secret combo of water and brass and tumble. I think I use 3 liters of water and add enough brass to make 18# if memory serves...
The "LSD" mix that RR is speaking of is indeed the one that gets the brass the cleanest, w/o messing up the brass.....
While I still have not gone the SS bit route, I most likely will in the near future.....getting more brass than my "old" (38+ yrs) Thumler B can reasonably handle..... ::) ..:.. ;D
As always, YMMV, but probably not a whole lot differently...... O0
LLP
Hey LayloPro, Thanks and I kind of figured it might be the best formula around. I got it from a place that sells the stainless steel media and the complete process from a buddy of mine that already has 2 of these tumblers set up. (Must be nice)
Anyway, I was thinking today about possibly adding alcohol, vinegar (something water soluble) to the mix to see if it would help or not. I don't want to try it if someone has and had a bad experience with it. i suppose good enough is good enough, but I'm always seeking a way to make very good better.
Cheers,
Mauser
Check out SnipersHide.com for recipes. I wouldn't add an acid and I don't think alcohol will do anything since it's water soluble and once diluted, not much of a cleaner.
RR
Agreed.
And Welcome, Mauser!
Acids & ammonia are a cases worst enemies...the bad part is you may not be able to see the damage until you are firing your shot....and that is usually -not- the time to find you are dealing with weakened brass..... :slap:
As RR said, SnipersHide has some rather "astute individuals" who post on it......
Enjoy the ride!!
LLP
I have had the stainless steel and thumbler's tumbler for about a year now.
I use a little less water and more brass than the recipe that came with the tool reccomends.
Just one squirt of dawn, other wist the foam inside is hard to get rid of.
Then use a rotary seperator with water in the bucket to seperate the media from the brass.
Sometimes two peices of media get stuck in the flash hole of winchester .223 brass.
Other wise great machine.
Brass takes time to dry.
Now for semiauto rifles, I tumble in the vibrator with walnut, size, clean with stainless media. Ream primer pockets, trim, and load on the dillon with decapping die in place of the sizing die.
The rumen magnet is a good idea, I have been useing a parts retreving magnet, but the large surface area, and smoothness of the rumen magnet is very appealing.
Put the rumen magnet in the bottom of a small plastic cup, gather the pins, and pull the magnet away from the bottom of the cup. The pins will fall free....
Figured it'd be another Montanan to have a rumen magnet laying around... ;D
RR
Well, a cow swallowed my last one, but I know where to get another rumen magnet.
I've been using this technique for about 6 months now and can't say enough great things about the stainless media. I've not encountered the problem of the pins sticking inside the cases - maybe because I first carefully dump the dirty water out of the Thumbler (leaving the cases and media at the bottom), and then refill with clean water, and mix it up with my hand. Then I dump it into a RCBS rotary separator. I usually then rinse the cases again with fresh water, tumble to separate, and then lay the cases out in the sun to dry.
For the occasional pin that escapes, I found that an ordinary workship magnet on an extension rod easily picks them up.
Dick
Hey Guys,
Sorry for the delay, I was on the road a bit this week for work. I like the idea of a magnet and I did read about this on the Midwayusa site, however the individual who entered the review made mention that the magnet would magnetize the pins and they would stick together in the cases? Anybody come across this? Additionally, good point on the alcohol and ammonia... I think I'll stick to the water (gods best natural solvent).
Cheers,
Mauser
Trick for drying your brass if you can get away with it ;D! I towel dry then put the cases in one of those throw away aluminum basting pans and place in the oven at 220 for 20 min. All the water steams off. They take a while to cool down.
Dave
Quote from: dronning on October 12, 2012, 08:46:17 PM
Trick for drying your brass if you can get away with it ;D! I towel dry then put the cases in one of those throw away aluminum basting pans and place in the oven at 220 for 20 min. All the water steams off. They take a while to cool down.
Dave
I would assume that a heat soak in 220 deg. is not going to aneal the cases and make the brass too soft. I'd like to try it if i can get a day that the wife is not at the house and i can get a cookie sheet :) I already nicked her Dawn dish soap... Dont tell her :cool2:
Hey guys,
Not to jump start an new topic, I will dump this question onto this string. I tried the SS media with 9mm Winchester brass and about 1/3 of the cases had media (2 pieces each) stuck in the flash hole! Not the end of the world, but I had to look at every one and push them out with a nail set punch... Not too much fun! (I also discovered that the P-Trap in the sink makes an excellent SS media retrieval tool if the stuff may get spilled into a sink whilst the water is flowing down the drain... it was not my day!) Nevertheless, my question is, is there a way to avoid having this happen or a different sized media available that does not hang up into the flash holes of the pistol brass? The brass look excellent, just a pain to get the media out of it.
Cheers All,
Mauser
You could always uniform your flash holes :)
With SS media, separate depriming and sizing steps are the way to go. Universal decappers are cheap. Any stuck pins will be pushed out by sizing die.
Thanks for this post.
Never heard of using stainless media before.
I'm going to order items to do this soon.
Have been wanting a superior method to corn media.
I found a basket (aluminum) out of an ol' deep fat fryer, after I rinse my brass I dump it in the basket and put it in the oven set at 180 for an hour or so. My last step before priming is flash holes....O.L.
I am a complete newbie on reloading and I'm loving this thread. I just watched a tutorial video at http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/tutorials (http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/tutorials). The guy on the video said the Thumler Tumbler is rated for 15 pounds. Five pounds of media, 1 gallon of water (about 8 pounds, he said) which leaves 2 pounds for brass. How many .223 cases is that? It didn't look like he had much at all in the video.
Thanks,
brian
Quote from: brianheeter on November 27, 2012, 12:43:23 PM
I am a complete newbie on relaoding and I'm loving this thread. I just watched a tutorial video at http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/tutorials (http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/tutorials). The guy on the video said the Thumler Tumbler is rated for 15 pounds. Five pounds of media, 1 gallon of water (about 8 pounds, he said) which leaves 2 pounds for brass. How many .223 cases is that? It didn't look like he had much at all in the video.
Thanks,
brian
Brian,
I don't load .223 but i can tell you that i have done some experimenting with the "mix" in the tumbler. (there are guys here on the forum that know way more about this than me BTW) I dont use a complete gallon of water, i use more like 3/4 gal. and dump in the balance of the weight in brass. (i use a bathroom scale) I found that too many cases take way longer to clean and the smaller the case the less time that is needed. IE: the 9mm brass i ran for 3 hrs and it was perfect. it could have run for less time, however when i run about 60 8x57 Mauser cases it need the 3 hrs to get the insides and the primer pocket really, really clean. I dont see why you couldnt run about 100 .223 cases for 3 hrs. and see what it looks like. if it needs more then let'er go for longer. Hot water worked better, but its a real bugger to get the rubber seal of the lid off after it cools down and creates a vacuum seal in the container (FYI). I could see running 100 (.223's) then rinsing them, drying them as noted above in the oven (gota try that if the wife lets me) and then reload those whilst the next batch is running in the tumbler. Then just repeat the process until your our of brass and have a pile of loaded ammo.
(Something else that i noticed about using this is that it is very easy now, once the cases are clean in the inside, to look for the beginnings of case head separation. I'm going to air some dirty laundry here and say that i shoot the heck out of my cases. Some of my S&B's have gone bang 25 times or more so i look for that when i inspect the cases...(My Remington's wore out the primer pocket before the case!) Its real easy with the larger mouth cases to see the little line above the case web start on the inside as they wear out completely. Those get thrown into the recycle brass pile, the rest... keep going!)
As far as using the rotary tumbler with the Stainless media and water, i wish i had never purchased the vibro'tumbler and saved that money. This is the way to do it!
Quote from: Aromatic on November 27, 2012, 10:47:15 AM
You could always uniform your flash holes :)
With SS media, separate depriming and sizing steps are the way to go. Universal decappers are cheap. Any stuck pins will be pushed out by sizing die.
Didnt think of that.. the pins would get captured in the primer tube on the press and would be easy to dump them back into the drum... I like it!! Might try that if i keep messing about with the 9mm's. The rifle brass seems to work OK with not getting the pins stuck and they have all had the flash holes uniformed (Rifle brass only, i didnt mess about with the pistol stuff and uniforming it out, but i see where that may be the solution to that issue also)
Cheers all and thanks for the advice,
Mauser
Quote from: Mauser on November 27, 2012, 01:13:03 PM
Quote from: Aromatic on November 27, 2012, 10:47:15 AM
You could always uniform your flash holes :)
With SS media, separate depriming and sizing steps are the way to go. Universal decappers are cheap. Any stuck pins will be pushed out by sizing die.
Didnt think of that.. the pins would get captured in the primer tube on the press and would be easy to dump them back into the drum... I like it!! Might try that if i keep messing about with the 9mm's. The rifle brass seems to work OK with not getting the pins stuck and they have all had the flash holes uniformed (Rifle brass only, i didnt mess about with the pistol stuff and uniforming it out, but i see where that may be the solution to that issue also)
Cheers all and thanks for the advice,
Mauser
I should qualify that i guess and i jerked the trigger on pushing the post button too quick. I do deprime all the brass with a universal decapper so the media can clean all the crud out of the primer pocket. No need to use a primer pocket tool the scrape it out later, I just let the machine do it all in one step :)
But i do get what ya mean with letting the decapping pin on the sizing die push the pins out. Have you ever had one jam in the die doing this?
Cheers,
Mauser
Yup. Deprime, clean, size.
Every once and a while I get pins that dont push out. Usually the just need to be pushed out the mouth manually. The reason I go in this order, is because it ensures that once complete all of the pockets are clear.
I notice that most people use media tumblers for case cleaning. I have been reloading handgun ammunition for a few years and am just starting with .223/5.56. I have been using an ultrasonic cleaning, which seems to work well for what I have used it for. Are there any advantages I would see with a tumber for the rifle (or any other) brass? I noticed it mentioned to use media to remove case lube after sizing.
Complete and innocent ignorance on display:
What is the difference between using a tumbler with media (SS, walnut or corncob) and using this stuff?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888624/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888624/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-kit)
Thanks,
brian
Quote from: AllMovingParts on December 02, 2012, 10:57:02 PM
I notice that most people use media tumblers for case cleaning. I have been reloading handgun ammunition for a few years and am just starting with .223/5.56. I have been using an ultrasonic cleaning, which seems to work well for what I have used it for. Are there any advantages I would see with a tumbler for the rifle (or any other) brass? I noticed it mentioned to use media to remove case lube after sizing.
I guess I would list the advantages at least of stainless media in a rotary tumbler as:
1. The cases are clean so you can see issues on the inside of the case easier (like the beginnings of head separation)
2. If you run them for a short time after processing the brass it will remove any lube and brass shavings from the case
3. The cases are clean on the inside and outside so you may get more life out of a die set expander and/or sizing die body
4. The primer pocket is cleaned to spotless so no issues with installing the primer and may eliminate a step in the process of case prep by not having to use a tool to scrape the crud out of the primer pocket.
5. The Stainless media is a onetime buy where corn cob and walnut needs to be replaced sooner or later and does not get inside the case or primer pocket
6. The brass cases are just cool when they look that nice :-)
Ok, so maybe i got carried away with that last one, but i put a lot of time into my reloading and i like it when it look as good as it can get. vain I know..
Cheers,
Mauser
Quote from: brianheeter on December 03, 2012, 05:16:58 PM
Complete and innocent ignorance on display:
What is the difference between using a tumbler with media (SS, walnut or corncob) and using this stuff?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888624/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/888624/iosso-brass-case-cleaner-kit)
Thanks,
brian
Brian,
Man I don't know, I have never used it but someone did mention before in an earlier post about being careful about what you expose your brass to. I looked into it a bit and wow, ammonia can really ruin your brass and mercury will not do it any favors either.. I don't know about this stuff in your link, but it does say that it is good for about 2000 cases. I just cleaned 1000 cases this past weekend in my rotary tumbler and its none the worse for the ware. It seems to me that cleaning 2000 cases and then having to replace the media (possible HAZMAT Shipping?) could get costly in the long run. Someone else may have some better insight on this but that my two cents.
Cheers,
Mauser
Quote from: oladcock on November 27, 2012, 12:10:07 PM
I found a basket (aluminum) out of an ol' deep fat fryer, after I rinse my brass I dump it in the basket and put it in the oven set at 180 for an hour or so. My last step before priming is flash holes....O.L.
I do the same to dry the cases but with oven at 220 'cause water turns to steam at 212 so any water deep inside a case will vapor out and 220 won't hurt the brass. Also I use a cheap turkey aluminum roasting pan I picked up several for $1ea (at Dollar store).
Hey guys,
I tried something last night with mixed results. A buddy of mine has a rifle that he would like to have refinished. (nothing special here just an M48 Yugo that has a garage made stock it looks like) The metal on the rifle had a little rust on it and a bunch of Cosmoline. So, i disassembled the bolt and into the tumbler it went along with the but plate and a butt plate from another project Swede Mauser I'm currently working. Anyway, i was kind of perplexed by the results. Yes, it got the rust off the metal parts (the bolt on a Yugo is not blued, just raw steel), and it got all the Cosmoline off the bolt. The Swede Mauser butplate came out beautiful and just as I ahd hoped. However, the Yugo metal came out a bit grey.... Huh.... Clean but grey... So no big deal, a bit if cleaning up with the steel wool and a wire brush and we are back to bright metal again.
At this point i should mention that those little pins get stuck in everything... and can be a bit of a task to remove, but possible to do, and before I get blasted for putting raw metal parts into water for hours... yes, they came out immediately and were dried and oiled and yes the rifle headspaces perfectly. Its the grey on the Yugo metal that has me wondering why? I know the Lemi Shine is a citric acid and possibly turned the surface grey, or the tarnish that was already on the metal may have been more exposed from the tumbling, but it was surprising that the Swede part came out awesome, but the Yugo needs a bit of help to get back to perfect. Anybody have any experience in tumbling (Gulp) parts in this red drum of stainless steel tumbling goodness?