I am looking at building a 10/22 LTR for an appleseed shoot so i wanted to get everyone's input on what they would want. I am especially interested if you guys like irons over scopes and if so, which kind (tech sights, etc.). Thanks in advance for your input!
Don't get too hung up on equipment. Unless you have eyesight problems I would start with irons (Tech-Sights). If you don't already have a 22LR rifle here is what I would buy:
Ruger 10/22 Deluxe Sporter Model -- Better stock, pretty polished bolt, recoil pad (Who cares about the recoil, but it stays in place better.) and it already has holes which can be repurposed to use Uncle Mike's Swivel Studs.
http://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/models.html
GI Web Sling -- Nylon or cotton to your preference.
http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart.com/?p=detail&pid=10&cat_id=
Volquartsen Automatic Bolt Release -- Bring it to an Appleseed if you don't feel comfortable installing it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/688102/volquartsen-automatic-bolt-release-ruger-10-22-black
Uncle Mike's 1-1/4" Swivels
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/774577/uncle-mikes-quick-detachable-super-sling-swivel-set-1-1-4-blue
Uncle Mike's Swivel Studs -- I don't remember the specific set needed for the deluxe sporter.
Tech Sights (TSR200)
http://www.tech-sights.com/
I wouldn't change anything else until you're a rifleman. If your eyesight is an issue I would get a quality rimfire scope with a fixed 4x magnification and rings appropriate to mount it to the rail included with the rifle. If you have eye-relief issues and need to move the scope further back than you can with the stock rail look at getting this: https://www.volquartsen.com/products/368-picatinny-scope-mount-for-10-22 but be warned you will need to get different scope rings.
If you look at the picture of my daughter's LTR rifles you can see that we shoot all brands. Our criteria to be kept is they have to be accurate and reliable.
She prefers the Ruger's and I lean toward Remington's but I'll shoot a Ruger in a heartbeat.
I'll describe our general Ruger set up first.
Ruger 10/22 Std Wood Stocked Carbine
GI Web Sling — 1 1/4 canvas sling -- I've discovered the nylon ones slip when drenched.
Christie's Automatic Bolt Release
PWS T3 Extended Mag release -- Hand stays on the grip, but the factory extended is OK.
Cast Steel Barrel Band -- Replaces the plastiic Ruger one and has enough material on it you can float the barrel but keep the carbine look.
GrovTech 1 1/4 Swivels — All steel and made in USA same price as Uncle Mikes.
Tech Sights (TSR200)
And if your over 5' 6" Extended Recoil pad, plus 4 extra mags besides what came with it.
Both of the Rugers pictured needed nothing but a couple shims for the trigger. I did replace the hammer spring in mine because it was used up (used gun).
A setup like this will run you NEW between 350-425$
Now the Remington Set-up.
Remington 597 base model -- comes with fair open sights easier to adjust than Ruger
Tech Sights for Remington
GrovTech 1 1/4" Swivels and mounts
GI M1 Sling
Skateboard deck tape to forearm and grip. (this just ain't for Remington's most of the plastic stocks are slick when wet)
Add 4 mag and your ready to shoot. Total between 280-325$. (they already have a good bolt and mag release factory)
I agree totally with "Edheler" about sticking with iron sights. But I've been into bi-focals for more than a few years now and lean toward scopes.
Both of my Remmy's rifles pictured are scoped, the one on the ACC-SD has a Leepers 3x9 with AO and the other on the Carbon Target model is a BSA 3x9 with AO and BDC.
They have both been great to shoot with each being soaked, submerged by our usual torrential Florida rains including tropical storm recently.
No leaks, No Fog adjustment solid. For shooting a 'seed a low fixed power scope is fine but you defiantly want an adjustable objective lens.
The AAC-SD with everything you see in the pic ran a little over 300$, but I got the scope used on eBay.
Hope this helps
This. I've finally come to accept the fact that my eyesight precludes me from shooting effectively with irons. My daughter is a lefty, so having the ambidextrous stock is a must.
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s146/variseal/pimpedout1022.jpg)
If you're looking to build a 'dream' LTR; well the best LTR is your primary rifle after all.
So, why bother? The primary purpose of the LTR is to emulate your primary rifle as close and as economically feasible as possible.
So, take a look at your primary rifle, then try to match that.
Otherwise, if you're not satisfied with your primary rifle and/or just looking to build upon you foundational skills - Then start with a 10/22, add techsights and 1.25" sling swivles, a GI Web sling, a bunch of mags and a case of Blazer. You'll find that the dream is not in the rifle - Rather it's dropping into position next to the guy with the $2000 10/22, and out shooting him because he put more into equipment than he did into practice.
The dream rifle is any rifle in the hands of a rifleman.
Based on the advice of dond(shoot boss/master instructor), I bought a used 10/22 that as far as I can tell was shot once or twice and traded/pawned off. I put a
Volquartsen auto bolt release and an extended mag release on it. I am mechanically challenged but working along with a video on YouTube I got it done and
everything still works on it. ^:)^ I am going to add an extended picatinny rail scope mount from either Brownells or EGW because when I get in the prone no
matter how far forward I've got the scope, I still get shading using the standard mounts. I took the barrel band off completely and may eventually get a Hogue
Overmolded stock but that's a "want to" not a "have to". For a scope, dond recommended a Cabela's brand 2x7. I have a issue AR15 sling that I am going to
adjust and put QD swivels on. This is for standing. Plus I have one GI sling and am going to buy another and set one up for prone and one for sitting. I am all
thumbs when it comes to adjusting the one sling so I figured to just change slings as needed.
Lastly, I am getting a bunch of AQTs, drill targets, Redcoats, and Greencoats, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
IMO, you should zip tie a sling to the front of a stock rifle + TS100 tech sights (scope if eyes require it, I recommend the Simmons 22 mag for cost vs performance) and shoot rifleman. Then install a set of studs as a reward. Continue to shoot the same rifle until you can look at a target and confidently declare a flyer the result of a ammo defect.
Then you will be able to make a qualified judgement on the accessories you want, because you will not need any of them.
YHJ
Yup, simple simple simple.
My first LTR was a carbine model 10/22 with tech sights and sling mounts.
My second LTR was an abused 10/22 that came out of an Anchorage police evidence locker where it had gotten a bit wet & rusty. It got sling mounts and a $25 Barksa scope - not to mention a bath in WD40 and a wipe down with steel wool.
Both made a ton of riflemen and scored 240's with regularity.
My next one? I hope it comes out of some haypile in an abandoned farm where it has been sitting for 25 years.
I'll clean her up, rub off the rust and get her back in action.
Just like we are doing with our country.
Quote from: yellowhousejake on July 25, 2012, 09:04:31 AM
TS100 tech sights
I am very curious why you recommend the TSR100 over the TSR200. I have always looked at it that an extra $10 gets a rear sight with adjustable elevation.
Quote from: Edheler on July 25, 2012, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: yellowhousejake on July 25, 2012, 09:04:31 AM
TS100 tech sights
I am very curious why you recommend the TSR100 over the TSR200. I have always looked at it that an extra $10 gets a rear sight with adjustable elevation.
The 200's rob the student of good practice in front vs. back sight adjustment. It's the same thing with letting a student run with a quick release sling mount and letting that keep them from putting a sling on and off 100 times in a weekend. It robs them of good, solid, practice.
Quote from: Edheler on July 25, 2012, 09:21:33 AM
Quote from: yellowhousejake on July 25, 2012, 09:04:31 AM
TS100 tech sights
I am very curious why you recommend the TSR100 over the TSR200. I have always looked at it that an extra $10 gets a rear sight with adjustable elevation.
What Techres said plus, the TS200 sit higher and require a different front post, which then leads folks to needing the cheek built up. Simple solution, TS100 and get to shooting with a minimum of fuss.
YHJ
Quote from: techres on July 25, 2012, 09:53:33 AM
The 200's rob the student of good practice in front vs. back sight adjustment. It's the same thing with letting a student run with a quick release sling mount and letting that keep them from putting a sling on and off 100 times in a weekend. It robs them of good, solid, practice.
I can appreciate the philosophical difference we have then. I think the students, especially if they are new to Appleseed, are already overwhelmed by the time you get to IMC and throwing another variable at them does little to further their understanding. I do describe sight adjustments in IMC but it just doesn't get retained by many first time Appleseeders and I am not sure it is worth throwing them into further confusion by recommending a sight which will require them to learn more the first time. It's a difficult call.
Quote from: yellowhousejake on July 25, 2012, 09:59:51 AM
What Techres said plus, the TS200 sit higher and require a different front post, which then leads folks to needing the cheek built up. Simple solution, TS100 and get to shooting with a minimum of fuss.
Now I am going to have to eyeball a students TSR100's to check that out. I had not thought about the consequences of a couple of millimeters difference in sight height.
Thanks!
Thanks guys. I am not looking to build my own dream rifle, i just wanted to know what yours is so that i can see what upgrades i will want to do. Some i will do before i start and some after
Another question: When you put on tech sights, what you you do about the old rear sight? Do you take it out?
Quote from: gore410 on July 25, 2012, 12:22:41 PM
Another question: When you put on tech sights, what you you do about the old rear sight? Do you take it out?
Just fold it down. You only really have to remove it if you attach an extended picatinny rail.
Quote from: techres on July 25, 2012, 09:15:01 AM
Yup, simple simple simple.
My first LTR was a carbine model 10/22 with tech sights and sling mounts.
My second LTR was an abused 10/22 that came out of an Anchorage police evidence locker where it had gotten a bit wet & rusty. It got sling mounts and a $25 Barksa scope - not to mention a bath in WD40 and a wipe down with steel wool.
Both made a ton of riflemen and scored 240's with regularity.
My next one? I hope it comes out of some haypile in an abandoned farm where it has been sitting for 25 years.
I'll clean her up, rub off the rust and get her back in action.
Just like we are doing with our country.
Saving old gun's is always a good thing and using them to train new riflemen is the best.
Not so sure I would use Steel wool on a rifle finish, Bronze wool is much easier on a finish, and can be bought at most Local hardware stores.
I have not seen Bronze wool at Big box stores!
Quote from: TomM1Thumb on July 26, 2012, 02:05:32 AM
Not so sure I would use Steel wool on a rifle finish, Bronze wool is much easier on a finish, and can be bought at most Local hardware stores.
I have not seen Bronze wool at Big box stores!
I think the general premise was that there was no finish, just rust.
Actually, I've found that real light steel wool with CLP, isn't all that bad on good bluing.
Takes the rust right off, but still leaves the pits.
I must admit, I wouldn't try it on a $20,000 shotgun - Then again, I'd never have one. I'd be the guy that brings that prize bird gun in for parkerizing before duracoating or krylon.
I'm 6'2", so I have been wondering if a recoil pad or something else to lengthen the stock would be a benefit to me. Since somebody else is recommending it, maybe I'll give it a try.
I went from stock sights to TS-200 at lunchtime on Saturday, they made a huge difference to me.
I still need to get the bases for the sling swivels installed, I spent most of last weekend shooting without a sling. I got some good advice on installing them, so I should get to it in the next week or so.
Quote from: gore410 on July 25, 2012, 11:27:18 AM
Thanks guys. I am not looking to build my own dream rifle, i just wanted to know what yours is so that i can see what upgrades i will want to do. Some i will do before i start and some after
Why wouldn't you want to build your dream rifle? You're the one who's going to be using it, so make it fit you, not some random people on the internet. If we're talking 10/22, the only mods you should definitely make are upgrade the sights (irons or scope, your choice) and add sling swivels (because every rifle needs sling swivels). Then buy a bunch of ammo and shoot it, preferably at an Appleseed or two (with as many friends as you can drag along). Once you've shot it a bunch and learned what you like and don't like about it, decide what you want to change.
My dream 10-22 is a M&P 15-22, I don't really like the 10-22's there is to much stuff you have to do to it to get it where you want it to be, with all the piece that makes your bolt lock back, and the extended bolt catch, and you have to install swivel studs oh, and dont forget those crappy sights they put on them. Spend the only on a 15-22 it comes with peep sights, stuff to hook slings into, and if you already own an AR or plan to get one, all the buttons and levers do what they are suppose to unlike the colt 22
~PlatzOut~
I am ordering what I expect to be an obscenely expensive rifle based on the Ruger 10/22 action from Volquartsen. They haven't yet told me how expensive it is going to be. :)
0000 steel wool of good quality, a light machine oil, and a light touch, is the final finish on rust bluing and Belgian bluing. I've done it many many times of fine old guns.
YHJ
http://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf (http://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf)
Also, for good measure: this thread reminds me of this thread:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=7347.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=7347.0)
- GoneJohnny
This one is pretty much my ideal LTR. It emulates my M1a very well. Has a 20" factory barrel.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/DSCN0261.jpg)
Quote from: gonejohnny on July 27, 2012, 01:09:20 AM
http://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf (http://appleseedinfo.org/pdf/LTR.pdf)
Also, for good measure: this thread reminds me of this thread:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=7347.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=7347.0)
- GoneJohnny
Aww... Johnny beat me to it...
My response was going to be "whatever 10/22 LTR happens to be in my hands".
Quote from: Foppish Dandy on July 30, 2012, 06:52:34 PM
My response was going to be "whatever 10/22 LTR happens to be in my hands".
O0
I have not seen a rifle yet that will not do at least 4 MOA with most ammo. A factory rifle with decent sights and a sling is all you need to master the skills, and really until you master the skills the rest of the goodies form a crutch.
But I confess I did go out a buy a CZ 452 last weekend. I've never had a good 22 rifle of my own, my four LTRs got thrown to the mat and put into service immediately. Though I have not thought about buying the trigger kits, the custom stocks, or the Vortex scope with a +20 MOA mount. I am pricing 5000 round cases of ammo instead. When I master the skills on this rifle as is, I may consider upgrading it with race parts.
Who am I kidding, I won't do that... I'll buy another 5000 rounds.
YHJ
Any time you wanna use a good rifle just come out to PA and I'll let you shoot mine. He's all stock and shoot sub MOA out to as least 150, that's as far as I've tried to shoot 22 so far.
~PlatzOut~
Quote from: SSG Platz on July 30, 2012, 09:46:49 PM
Any time you wanna use a good rifle just come out to PA and I'll let you shoot mine. He's all stock and shoot sub MOA out to as least 150, that's as far as I've tried to shoot 22 so far.
~PlatzOut~
O0
My wife's 10-22 does that with mini mags. The only mod was to drill the mag release and thread a shoulder bolt in. It's a real joy ain't it?
YHJ
I started using eley yellow box, but I found mini mags did good enough and were half the price. I shot 0.34 moa at 150 with mini mags at the IBC a few monts back with savage mark II. Eley will drill 3 rounds through the same hole, ccw will make one hole but you can tell there are more than one round there. I'm intrested in trying the 10X just to see how it shoots. Once I can bring myself to pay 24 bucks for 50 rounds.
~PlatzOut~
Quote from: yellowhousejake on July 30, 2012, 09:01:25 PM
I have not seen a rifle yet that will not do at least 4 MOA with most ammo. A factory rifle with decent sights and a sling is all you need to master the skills, and really until you master the skills the rest of the goodies form a crutch.
But I confess I did go out a buy a CZ 452 last weekend. I've never had a good 22 rifle of my own, my four LTRs got thrown to the mat and put into service immediately. Though I have not thought about buying the trigger kits, the custom stocks, or the Vortex scope with a +20 MOA mount. I am pricing 5000 round cases of ammo instead. When I master the skills on this rifle as is, I may consider upgrading it with race parts.
Who am I kidding, I won't do that... I'll buy another 5000 rounds.
YHJ
Oh... don't get me wrong... I've got my space gun too. Accurate as sin and a joy to shoot. But that doesn't make it my dream 10/22 LTR. HECK! I wouldn't even call it an LTR.
I have one just like this: http://www.lipseysguns.com/post/Ruger-1022-Stainless-22-Barrel-22-LR.aspx I picked it up second hand, although it had only been shot once, and was still in the box... Threw on a GI style sling, along with Uncle Mike's 1.25" swivels, and a cheap scope, and it is a real tack driver! It's only problem is me not holding it steady enough... $$-0
MrFixit
Patriot Gal's "Rifleman Maker" is pretty close for me. I would need the stock to be longer and the scope moved forward just a bit. Otherwise it's a dream to shoot!
:pics:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-B6DqNbhhopo/UEkDVkfSnnI/AAAAAAAAABI/gqOaMyq-l3M/s640/DSCF0897.JPG)