I would like to thank Whisker for insisting in his Becoming Riflemen (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=16273.0) book that there is one - and only one - way to set up the tension on a web sling correctly.
I came away from my first Appleseed being able to more or less use a sling. I'd used hasty for ages, and kind-of-sort-of was comfortable with the 1907 sling on the Winchester from my Dad. But I didn't know anything about web slings, and I'm afraid I was one of the casualties of the QD shortcut (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=28166.0) grind when I went*. I could shoot with a sling okay, but once I got home could never get that perfect little "bump" of hardware in the right place - which meant I didn't have the continuous tension that was necessary. Something was missing, but I couldn't tell what.
Thanks to Whisker's insistence about "one right way," I spent the better part of Saturday morning reading his book, tracking down pictures online, taking the darn thing apart, putting it back together again, and trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.
... and finally did. He was right. :)
More broadly speaking - I appreciate in the Appleseed tradition the ability to distinguish between the stuff that really does need to be tailored to the individual, and the universal constants.
For those of us who grew up in the 70's/80's/90's , there was a lot of "whatever works for you." And for a lot of stuff that's true - we're all different body shapes and sizes, and the exact same position doesn't work well for everyone. But for some things there really is a "one best way."
So - what do y'all think are the universal constants, and where do you toss the rulebook for a given student?
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* Totally not dissing the practice. I agree a 2" firehouse is easier than a 4" :)
I don't want to hijack your thread, but your link to the Becoming Rifleman book is broken. Or I don't have access to it (according to the message). I'd buy the hell out of that book.
Would you care to spill the beans on what the "one right way" is to use a web sling? I'm heading to my second Appleseed in a few weeks and have been dry firing at home a few nights a week. Gunna' actually get some live fire practice tomorrow. I hate to have been building bad habits, you know?
Thanks!
D'oh!
Sorry, I didn't check that.
The publication I was referring to is duplicated here:
http://becomingriflemen.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/becoming-riflemen/
Search for -
"If the loop tightens when the main line is pulled and the hardware is on the outside of the arm, the sling is on correctly."
Leroy,
I have spent some time on the sling issue myself. There are basically 4 configurations of how the sling can be attached to the rifle. Two of them work for us.
With the sling hanging flat (buttstock on the ground, muzzle up, top of the rifle barrel leaning into your shoulder, no twists in the sling) you pull the loop out of the buckle and it comes out away from (on the opposite side of the sling from) the rifle. I call that having the buckle facing away from the rifle. The opposite of that is the sling is hanging flat and the loop comes out toward the rifle.
The keeper is the adjustable assembly on the sling and the "tab" is the piece of that assembly that rotates to loosen and tighten down on the sling. You can have the tab facing toward or away from the rifle (with the sling hanging flat). It will work either way. The main differences are in how you will loosen the tab and if the keeper causes any discomfort to the back of your hand if you have it that far up on the sling.
The important part of the sling set up is to have the buckle facing away from the rifle. Whether the tab of the keeper is facing toward or away from the rifle is a matter of personal preference.
I have attached 4 pictures to help with the explanation. Figures 1 and 2 are correct, 3 and 4 are incorrect.
C ya,
brian
Brian, the pictures you took, and that description, should be put on the list of what to bring. In my opinion. The GI sling appears to be purposely hard to get into a loop, and that's the best explanation I've seen.
...I just volunteered myself for something again, didn't I? I gotta stop doing that.
Roland
Kaylee I really appreciate the process you have gone through psychologically with this.
If we are going to call ourselves instructors, which generally means "A teacher, or professor, of a specialised subject that involves skill" then we have to accept that we are responsible for teaching something. It is ALWAYS okay to ask "Why?" of your curriculum. ALWAYS. We must do this if we are to improve. Sometimes in asking the question we may find a different, more efficient method of teaching something. Sometimes we THINK that is what we have done but we have actually missed an important point. The trick is that we ask "Why?" often enough that we prove our curriculum to ourselves and that will make us better presenters of it.
What about the guy who ties the rope to his arm?
I think it's great that we streamline the way we instruct things and we encourage folks to do things "the one right way" but in fact, there is no "one right way" since field-expedient methods can be just as effective and it's important that we get the point across "use a sling to steady your shot" as opposed to "if you don't do it like this it's ineffective."
Just remember there's a way we teach it but other ways aren't necessarily wrong.
Slim,
The one right way applies to rope, and to a belt, and to a tactikewl-singlepoint-fourty-buckle-spec-ops-harness-system. It's the usage, not the tool.
There is a one right way to use a sling, the way that provides the correct tension. Correct in not just the amount of tension, but the direction as well. We are building a structure to provide a stable rest and the proper use of the sling will provide that. The improper use will not. If that sling is a 1907, a GI web, a rope, etc, matters little. You could just as well show the one right way to achieve that tension by tying a rope around your arm or zip tying a belt to the rifle.
To really streamline the instruction, we should teach the mechanics of sling use regardless of sling type. Then let the type of sling on the rifle dictate the finer points of the sling's use. That requires that our instructors become familiar with different slings and different rifles, something we are working on achieving.
If the student is using a GI web sling, Kaylee and Brian are right on the mark and doing it any other way will not work as well, if at all, to achieve the benefits of a sling. But you are right, the GI web sling ain't the only one out there.
YHJ
Every Red Hat should be well versed on the USGI web sling, the 1907 sling and the Hasty sling.
Usually everything else can be adapted from the proper usage of one of these 3.
I've seen far too many of our folks out there that are too narrow minded as to which sling to use.
One size doesn't fit all.
Some folks lack upper body strength, and usually a hasty sling works better for them (more support).
Some folks have a larger chest size, and a web sling works better for them (more comfort).
Then there's those old diehards like me, that prefer a traditional 1907 sling on most of my rifles.
And, by the way, that's essentially the same message some of these posters are saying.
Quote from: Nickle on April 09, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
Every Red Hat should be well versed on the USGI web sling, the 1907 sling and the Hasty sling.
As an orange hat who's trying to get red as quickly as possible, I'm curious what you mean by "hasty sling". You seem to be using it to mean a specific type of sling, where I've always understood it to be simply a method of using a sling. (loop vs. hasty rather than 1907 vs. hasty)
I don't usually put words into other peoples mouths, but I think I've got a pretty good idea of what Nickle was trying to get across.
QuoteEvery Red Hat should be well versed on the USGI web sling, the 1907 sling and the Hasty sling.
As you note, the USGI Web Sling, and the 1907 Sling are two specific types of sling, which allow one to utilize either a loop configuration or a hasty. The 'hasty sling' in the above context, means just about any other type of sling, that due to its design, is only capable of being used in a hasty configuration.
And yes, I agree with Nickle that prior to getting a red hat, each instructor should be able to properly utilize the web sling, 1907 sling and others, and further, be able to teach others to do the same.
There are sling types, as in USGI web, 1907, etc.... Then there are ways slings can be used as in hasty hasty, hasty, or loop. If a sling connects in the front and back, they can be used as a hasty or hasty hasty no matter what "kind" they are. If designed like a USGI web or 1907, they can also be used as a loop. All muddy now? ...O.L.
Quote from: aragornelessar86 on April 09, 2012, 04:09:50 PM
Quote from: Nickle on April 09, 2012, 03:18:31 PM
Every Red Hat should be well versed on the USGI web sling, the 1907 sling and the Hasty sling.
As an orange hat who's trying to get red as quickly as possible, I'm curious what you mean by "hasty sling". You seem to be using it to mean a specific type of sling, where I've always understood it to be simply a method of using a sling. (loop vs. hasty rather than 1907 vs. hasty)
I should have added " as a loop sling" after USGI web sling.
Most anything can be rigged up to use as a hasty sling (yup, same kind you teach), as long as it connects with the rifle fron and back (even seen it done with connecting near the action, rather than the butt area).
As a rule, any sling is better than no sling, and the only reason I mention "as a rule", is because there are exceptions to it (which you will rarely see, unless dealing with some of the military usage tactical slings).
Ok, this is what I thought, but I wanted to make sure. Thanks guys!