Will it hurt to dry fire a 795? Hurt as in break a firing pin.
I have my own opinion but was wondering what others thought. There is no mention of dry firing in the owner's manual.
I have been told that it should not be done.
i did read through the other threads on the 795 and there seems to be no consensus whether good or bad. Those were old threads though and I wonder if now that they have been out on the line for a couple years has anyone had any experience with them dry firing.
I know that the Remington 597 will break if dry fired.
Have only heard it is bad on the Marlin. If it has changed I would be more likely to buy one even though all my current gear is Ruger.
My Marlin 70 (old-school version of the 795) LTR finally broke its firing pin recently, after 20 years of service... The break was around the retaining pin rather than at the tip, indicating inertial stress failure rather than battering. Probably on the order of 40,000 rounds through the rifle and many, many hours of dry practice.
So it's not absoutely harm-free, but you can pretty much ignore it.
The real danger with dry-firing is in older rimfires where the pin isn't restrained and will come in contact with the breech if snapped on an empty chamber. Modern Marlins don't do this.
Mine is young but has shown no issues. I made a "dryfire device" by filling a 7 round magazine with epoxy, painting it orange, and attaching orange streamers to it. There is no way to mistake it for a loaded magazine but it allows dry firing since it engages the magazine disconnect. I think my expense was about $15 The shape of the epoxy allows the bolt to close instead of locking it back.
I had a 795 firing pin break on one of my loaners due to dry fire. BeSwift
I would suggest that you PM your question to our resident 795 guru, ChuckS. He is the engineer at the Kentucky factory who oversees the production of this rifle from incoming steel to shipping finished rifles out the door. He told me that dry firing can cause the pin to hit the edge of the chamber at the 6:00 position, causing a burr to form and creating feeding and extraction problems.
UL
Here is the reason I asked. I was working on a trigger drill we have put into place up here in Michigan and was dry firing. The bolt locked open and when I took it apart the firing pin fell out. This is pictured above an old 70's era Model 60 pin. I bought the 795 new last May. Note that the owner's manual doesn't say anything about dry firing one way or another.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/105_9185.jpg)
Mine failed in the same manner as yours, pictured above. Again, this took a very long time.
I think you just had bad luck... but if we start seeing a rash of these things, maybe not.
Yes,
Dry fire them all and when the firing pin breaks go buy a new Rifle?
My 795 has never had a problem with dry firing. I have had it for 3 1/2 years now and it seems to be fine.
RnR
Quote from: mac66 on April 06, 2012, 01:37:08 PM
Here is the reason I asked. I was working on a trigger drill we have put into place up here in Michigan and was dry firing. The bolt locked open and when I took it apart the firing pin fell out. This is pictured above an old 70's era Model 60 pin. I bought the 795 new last May. Note that the owner's manual doesn't say anything about dry firing one way or another.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/105_9185.jpg)
Mac, you would do well to take a bright light and a magnifier and look at the chamber face at the 6:00 position. Also, look at the feed ramp for marks. I do not dry fire my 795, but the firing pin has completely chewed up the top center of the feed ramp. I suspect this feed ramp divot is causing feeding and extraction problems. Chuck has advised me to polish the divot in the feed ramp smooth. Does anybody else have this firing pin signature on their feed ramp?
UL
Quote from: Unbridled Liberty on April 06, 2012, 09:39:14 PM
Quote from: mac66 on April 06, 2012, 01:37:08 PM
Here is the reason I asked. I was working on a trigger drill we have put into place up here in Michigan and was dry firing. The bolt locked open and when I took it apart the firing pin fell out. This is pictured above an old 70's era Model 60 pin. I bought the 795 new last May. Note that the owner's manual doesn't say anything about dry firing one way or another.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/mac66/105_9185.jpg)
Mac, you would do well to take a bright light and a magnifier and look at the chamber face at the 6:00 position. Also, look at the feed ramp for marks. I do not dry fire my 795, but the firing pin has completely chewed up the top center of the feed ramp. I suspect this feed ramp divot is causing feeding and extraction problems. Chuck has advised me to polish the divot in the feed ramp smooth. Does anybody else have this firing pin signature on their feed ramp?
UL
I have noticed the same sign on the feed ramp and am watching it closely after polishing to see if problems arise
Quote from: Unbridled Liberty on April 06, 2012, 09:39:14 PMMac, you would do well to take a bright light and a magnifier and look at the chamber face at the 6:00 position. Also, look at the feed ramp for marks. [...] Does anybody else have this firing pin signature on their feed ramp?
Mine is clean. There's a casting mark on the feed ramp that sort of resembles a firing-pin gouge, but it was there when I got it. The chamber face is unmarked.
Could be a tolerance issue. Unlucky rifles might make contact in this fashion.
I've read on various other firearms forums (including Rimfire Central) that the recommendation is to get some plastic, wall/drywall screw holders. Supposedly this gives the firing pin something to impact against that won't cause as much damage. YMMV.
My Dad's Marlin 795 also had a rough feed ramp with a big casting mark down the middle. It was that way from the factory, and had nothing to do with the firing pin. It did cause FTF malfunctions. I ground and polished the feed ramp along with the inside of the receiver with a dremel, and now it is very reliable.
I also dry fired that rifle a bit, but not very much. One good way to dry fire with one is to do what I did with my M1A... take the spring and follower out of one of your mags to make a dry-fire mag. It will engage the mag safety, but will not engage the bolt hold-open.
I've had a couple of loaners on the line for maybe a couple of years, or more. Eventually the ends of the firing pin became a little dinged and wouldn't impact the primer good enough. The same happened with my Rugers. I just replaced the firing pins and they are still working fine. It was no big deal.
My oldest 795 LTR loaner has been through maybe 8 Appleseed weekends with a variety of shooters ranging in age from 8 to 70, and I encourage dry firing during prep (for the whole line, not just for students borrowing my rifles).
Most students won't really use the prep period to dry fire, so I can't say how many times this rifle has been dry fired, but when reasonably clean and with the right ammo it still functions reliably. I want to check the feedramp, though.
I did just notice that the Simmons 22mag reticle seems to be broken after the last borrower finished, though... :(
Quote from: k0sh on April 09, 2012, 02:49:40 PM
I've read on various other firearms forums (including Rimfire Central) that the recommendation is to get some plastic, wall/drywall screw holders. Supposedly this gives the firing pin something to impact against that won't cause as much damage. YMMV.
I've tried this (yellow drywall anchors) but I don't recommend it. Although at first they seemed like the perfect solution and the perfect fit , I have had the anchors disappear inside the chamber. It could be a safety concern.
UL
With .22's and other rimfires, I get a spent shell case, insert it in the chamber, and dryfire on that. The firing-pin then gets the same treatment as when you're shooting live rounds.
Quote from: k0sh on April 09, 2012, 02:49:40 PM
I've read on various other firearms forums (including Rimfire Central) that the recommendation is to get some plastic, wall/drywall screw holders. Supposedly this gives the firing pin something to impact against that won't cause as much damage. YMMV.
Actually it doesn't because it keeps hitting the same spot all the time, which is now depressed.
The good news is that the 795 has a 5 year warranty. I called Marlin and they are sending me a new one no questions asked.
The bad news is they were out of stock and it will take 3-4 weeks.
The good news is I have another NIB 795 I bought cheap with the rebate last fall and will simply switch out the bolt so I can use my LTR 795 as a loaner this weekend.
The bad news is that I am now hesitant in recommending dry firing the 795 or other 22s that don't specifically say they can be dry fired.
Additional Info; I do have a dimple on the chamber face and on the feed ramp. Doesn't seem to affect anything as I had just put about 400 rounds through it a couple weekends ago and the shot a couple AQTs the weekend after. No problems what so ever. I do admit that I have dry fired this particular rifle hundreds and hundreds of times since I bought it last May.
My unfired NIB box 795 has the same markings on it and I probably have only dry fired it 5 or 6 times.
Should we still encourage dry firing all rifles except the SKS?
Quote from: dond on April 10, 2012, 08:26:51 PM
Actually it doesn't because it keeps hitting the same spot all the time, which is now depressed.
Not if you rotate it in between each shot. A little awkward at first, but you get used to it.
Quote from: Sly223 on April 11, 2012, 05:44:17 PM
Should we still encourage dry firing all rifles except the SKS?
I do. Takes a LOT of dry firing to damage a 22. That said, I'm thinking of telling the Marlin shooters to be careful not to dry fire too much.
And, even though I will catch some flak from some, here's another reason why the Marlin doesn't impress me.
If dry firing would break a 10/22 real easy, I'd have several of them that would be broken multiple times over. Haven't had one fail yet.
And, I still love my bolt guns.
Quote from: Nickle on April 11, 2012, 06:42:01 PM
Quote from: Sly223 on April 11, 2012, 05:44:17 PM
Should we still encourage dry firing all rifles except the SKS?
I do. Takes a LOT of dry firing to damage a 22. That said, I'm thinking of telling the Marlin shooters to be careful not to dry fire too much.
And, even though I will catch some flak from some, here's another reason why the Marlin doesn't impress me.
If dry firing would break a 10/22 real easy, I'd have several of them that would be broken multiple times over. Haven't had one fail yet.
And, I still love my bolt guns.
Ruger actually recommends dry firing the 10/22 it has a transfer bar or blocking bar that prevent chamber damage. Most 22s don't.
I dry fire Ruger 1022s on purpose because Ruger's manual okays dry firing and because I find it makes increasingly dirty LTR loaners more likely to keep running on Sunday afternoon, after 400 rounds or so.
I've recently learned that some 1022 owners oppose this, though, so when loaning their rifle, I won't encourage dry firing to keep the firing pin moving. :cool2:
I've found some dummy rounds that I've been giving to our students here in TN to use while dry firing (and the B&D drill). They are 10 cents a piece and I get them from http://www.mfgservs.com/training_ammo.php (http://www.mfgservs.com/training_ammo.php). They last a good long time before they are too chewed up to work.
Quote from: Sly223 on April 11, 2012, 05:44:17 PM
Should we still encourage dry firing all rifles except the SKS?
CMMG does not recommend dry firing their 22 dedicated upper w/o first removing the firing pin, which is fine at home, but not on the AS line. According to tech support this is inherent with the design.
I can't speak to others, and most can be dry fired, but, if you are going to do it with this one make sure you have spare firing pins, they will break.
Quote from: TN_Dadx5 on April 11, 2012, 07:51:30 PM
I've found some dummy rounds that I've been giving to our students here in TN to use while dry firing (and the B&D drill). They are 10 cents a piece and I get them from http://www.mfgservs.com/training_ammo.php (http://www.mfgservs.com/training_ammo.php). They last a good long time before they are too chewed up to work.
I was using orange inert/dummy rounds like these and found one that became rimless with use and then snuck down the bore. I ejected orange plastic shavings and had to look for the central part in the bore.