Appleseed will be at the Shot show. KNS Precision will have a booth at the show and our handouts will be available there. KNS is also going to sponsor our shoots here in Fredericksburg for 2012. This removes the financial burden that we sometimes struggle with when we can't cover the range fee. Thank you Gordon Gibson! BTW Gordon has been to an Appleseed and shot rifleman.
I encourage everyone to go to KNS website and check out their store. They make and sell rifle parts and accessories.
http://www.knsprecisioninc.com/
~Two Wolves
Excellent! This is great news.
Great news! Thanks KNS for helping us out...O.L.
I've been to a few "Shot Shows" and a few Appleseeds as well.
I think it's sad (Yes Fred, I said sad) that RWVA/Appleseed can't pay it's own way to the Shot Show. The organization is certainly funded well enough to reserve a table in a good location and pay for two or three people to spend the time in Vegas with decent rooms so that they could man the booth for the duration of the show. You could make a contest out of it and reward the instructors who works the most Appleseeds for the preceding year with a trip to Vegas.
A booth at the Shot Show would put the Appleseed name and mission in front of everyone in the shooting industry. It would do more to advance Appleseed than all the articles ever written about us.
I appreciate what KNS is doing but Appleseed shouldn't need to ride someone's coattails to get in the show.
The issue is not money, VA - it's manpower.
If you'd like to volunteer to set this up for next year's shot show, we can sure use the help.
Thanks in advance!
I find it hard to believe that Appleseed can't come up with three instructors willing to go to Las Vegas in January.
I'd be glad to go but evidently I'm no longer an Appleseed Instructor. Of course, that doesn't stop people from asking me to work their Appleseeds. I did four last year although I told you I was not well enough to do any shoots. One was way out in Indiana. That trip was kind of hard on me.
My legs are getting better so I may be able to get out more this next year.
When Fred said manpower it isn't just attendance that he was referring to (I don't think, I could be wrong). It seems we have plenty of people willing to help. The issue is planning. An 11th hour effort may do more harm than good if we look like the Beverly Hillbillies rolling in with granny strapped to her rocker. Where we failed was not in the pocket book or producing volunteers it was that we weren't planning for it in September/October of last year. Its just like a shoot. It takes some forethought and planning. Yes, by now we have many shoot bosses and crews who can show up day of and throw a good shoot, but we aren't there yet on big promotional activities like this or the NRA Convention. If we go back to the NRA Convention internal it will show us all that, even though an effort was made at preparation, it wasn't enough and we didn't have a enough people in the right places to make the most of the experience. While i am disappointed we missed this opportunity I think we can learn from this and the exercising of a little forethought and teamwork will allow us to turn this lesson into future success.
Right now is when preparations need to be made to attend the Shot Show. It may already be too late to get a good table for next year.
The reservations need to be made now and that means the table location in the show and the hotel rooms. I agree that coming up with the people should be easy.
The NRA Show should also be done a year in advance but that show is much smaller so table location should be easier to negotiate.
Quote from: SPQR on January 13, 2012, 05:50:49 PM
When Fred said manpower it isn't just attendance that he was referring to (I don't think, I could be wrong). It seems we have plenty of people willing to help. The issue is planning. An 11th hour effort may do more harm than good if we look like the Beverly Hillbillies rolling in with granny strapped to her rocker. Where we failed was not in the pocket book or producing volunteers it was that we weren't planning for it in September/October of last year. Its just like a shoot. It takes some forethought and planning. Yes, by now we have many shoot bosses and crews who can show up day of and throw a good shoot, but we aren't there yet on big promotional activities like this or the NRA Convention. If we go back to the NRA Convention internal it will show us all that, even though an effort was made at preparation, it wasn't enough and we didn't have a enough people in the right places to make the most of the experience. While i am disappointed we missed this opportunity I think we can learn from this and the exercising of a little forethought and teamwork will allow us to turn this lesson into future success.
I may be wrong, but I seem to remember a former Senior Instructor telling me that he'd done the groundwork for SHOT a couple years ago; and that there were issues with getting the paperwork signed by someone authorized to commit the organization. He also mentioned that he'd done the legwork to make Appleseed, as an organization, a certified DoD contractor; which would make it easier to do the Military Shoots---again issues with getting the paperwork signed. At one time SOMEONE was doing the planning and organization for this stuff....he's no longer with the program.
I believe in some way or another it is all about commitment. When you have an organization that is staffed and run by volunteers, making sure you have the commitment for help twelve months out might be a stumbling block. Having dedicated and quality people who just walk away from the program over some petty issues, might make it tough for these long range plans. Just my thoughts as to the why haven't we or the why don't we. ~Two Wolves
Two Wolves,
You need to reexamine your statement because it contains a contradiction. You might ask yourself, "Would dedicated and quality people walk away over petty issues?" The logical answer is "no. " So either the people are not dedicated or of quality or the issues are not petty. Those thoughts may require some examination.
You might include additional data such as "Did these people leave or were they banned from the organization?" "How hard did they try to bring about change in the organization? How much work did they do for the Organization." Now put it all together and draw your own conclusions in "the cold light of day."
Mr. Davis, I sense that you are much wiser than I regarding my previous post. But you have interjected the idea of logical. I don't know if I can attach logical thinking in with emotional actions. Bottom line for me is that we are all just people trying to do something good as a group. My mission statement in Appleseed is much greater any personal feeling issues that might arise.
You know, regarding change-- A man meets a woman and would like to keep her as the way she was when they met.
A woman meets a man and spends the rest of her life trying to change him.
What puzzles me is why would a volunteer think they have a right to change anything. Don't you have to be elected like a president to demand change. LOL
The SHOT show was on our radar. It was decided that a full court press on the NRA convention was a better application of resources than SHOT.
What resources? Well to make a very good & professional impression you have to do things full on and big. As mentioned before - it is better to not be there officially if we cannot be there and wow those whom we meet.
A full team, a full set of promotions tools, a set of vendor negotiation items that are ready and pre-approved in case a signature can be obtained on site, and between 3-8 members ready to work a professional expo as a team.
And that is what is being prepared for the NRA convention. Our place is already secured, team being assembled and while we did a great job this year, next will cement us as a national program of note and measure. That is what you have to do in order to really make an impact.
Now, those who are going to work the floor at SHOT - thank you. That is great and good but a completely different beast than a getting a booth and putting in the resources to do the event in a way that cements in our peers and community the image we want, need and deserve.
This year we are not going to do SHOT, we are doing NRA. Next year we may do things differently. But what we are certain to do is be deliberate and careful so as to go from success to success even if we do so very carefully.
Hope that helps.
Now let me say this - for anyone who wants to help with promotions:
Go local.
The national level promotions are flashy and people think they are important enough to spend many a thread on, but in reality word of mouth, local papers, and securing ranges are far more important than SHOT or other events like it will be. They are important, but what is vital is the grind work of doubling ranges, doubling shoots, and getting BOTG on the ground rounding up shooters by word of mouth.
That is what will save the nation.
P.S. Also be so kind as to get on facebook and promote KNS like we have on the IL & IN facebook pages:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/179073402156540/
They deserve the nod & help!
Thanks Two Wolves!
If only we had 1000 more like you. I sure need to get back out to Fredricksburg this year and say Howdy.
Quote from: jmdavis on January 14, 2012, 03:01:50 PM
You need to reexamine your statement because it contains a contradiction. You might ask yourself, "Would dedicated and quality people walk away over petty issues?" The logical answer is "no. " So either the people are not dedicated or of quality or the issues are not petty.
Actually, Two Wolves is correct - there is a third possibility: It is possible that some of the people walking away are not logical - and are therefor acting in an illogical manner. In fact, I expect there's a lot of emotional "thinking" going on...
Plus there is the additional dimension of getting your priorities straight.
Your personal concerns and opinions should never take precedence over your country's future, which is why the mantra, "Don't sweat the small stuff, stay focused on the Mission - and in the face of the Mission,
it's ALL small stuff."
Some, certainly more than any of us would like, of our volunteers can't seem to get their head around that concept. And when they find out the program is not "perfect", that it doesn't meet their approval in every aspect, wind up leaving.
BTW, in a program as oriented to AARs as this one is - which suggests we are a program very concerned with catching problems, correcting them, making improvements - in other words, striving to be as efficient and effective as we can in working toward the Mission - I don't see how there can be any real complaint about "problems".
In fact, one of the Appleseed Guidelines (listed at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=27266.0) says "we don't need to live with problems, in this program - we fix them."
And, VAShooter, it's not getting three instructors to go - that's the easy (relatively) part - it's getting at least one person to step up at least a year ahead, and shepherd all the preps which have to be made.
Quote from: scuzzy on January 15, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
Thanks Two Wolves!
If only we had 1000 more like you.
O0
OK, I'm gonna go feet first with this one.
By day I'm a factory sales rep. I've worked more trade shows than I care to remember. Shows much larger than SHOT, where manufacturers spend millions on their booths and buyer attendance is well over 75,00 people. I clean up fairly well and even know how to tie a tie. In short, trade shows are part of my career.
Booths can be done very effectively on a budget with good planning and creative design. I've seen huge booths fail and small booths steal shows.
I'm going to do some research on this show and see what wheels need to be greased to get us in there next year. Obviously, I won't be making any commitments or signing any paperwork. Just some exploratory legwork by somebody who knows these gigs from the inside and out.
I'm willing to work with and help anybody here who is interested in this.
If anybody has already done some reaching out to folks at SHOT, some names, contact info, and any pertinent informaion already gained would be much appreciated. Feel free to PM any info you feel might be helpful.
Thanks,
ST
PM sent
Qoute from Fred
" And, VAShooter, it's not getting three instructors to go - that's the easy (relatively) part - it's getting at least one person to step up at least a year ahead, and shepherd all the preps which have to be made."
Quote from Swamp Thing
"I'm willing to work with and help anybody here who is interested in this. "
Funny how things work out isn't it. Thank you Swamp Thing ~Two Wolves
Guys, please be careful there. This sign is one of many there according to Gemtech's FB page:
I have been to the SHOT Show as an exhibitor.
What would be Appleseed's purpose at SHOT?
This venue is mostly for vendors to showcase their products with profit as the motive.
Other Vendors are the target audience of exhibitors.
If we go, there needs to be a concise mission. If not I believe that it would detract from filling lines. I could see exhibiting with the intent of partnering with other vendors to propagate our mission of filling lines, but what is in it for those who partner with us? We will have to step out of our box to examine this. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch! SHOT Show costs most companies big bucks to attend. There has to be a financial return on their investment.
How could promoting Appleseed events profit our partner(s)?
I think that when it comes to approaching companies to promote Appleseed, It may be best to find different ways in. Example: The company I work for places an Appleseed tri-fold in the order confirmations (when I can keep them reminded and in stock) But that came from a personal contact. There is no profit benefit to be made by the company I work for by placing the information in the confirmation letter. They are doing it just because I asked and there may be a future benefit due to the results of Appleseed's efforts.
The NRA convention, however, draws an audience that has better potential of serving our mission. Many of the same vendors attend this convention as well as the general public.
My .02....
Understood on the suitcasing.
I'd hope that most if not all of the vendors are shooters hence possible AS'ers. Although many trade shows are billed as "trade only" lots of enthusiasts manage to find a way in the door at each event. This isn't a recruiting event for me but merely an opportunity to scout out what our options could be for next year. If I run across an interested party they're going to get a trifold and the elevator speech or more at a minimum. Or even meet someone who's helped us out and I can thank them for their support.
What's in it for the vendors? An opportunity to expose their products or even create a new product line for a new market segment. Every day more competitors enter the market and the ones to take advantage of all opportunities will come out on top. In all business, relationships sell and if AS becomes the medium through which the relationship is made and endures, great....
How could the companies profit? Look at all of the shooting events which occur each year. How many don't have any commercial advertising associated with them? Very few; even our local precision matches have some sponsorship. We'd be perfect in this regard since I'd expect us to attract more folks just getting into shooting (well) than the competition sports. New shooters = opportunities to sell gear and equipment.
Business relationships are by their very nature symbiotic; we need to find a way to create them. Where this all ends up resides with the AB. I'm not a 510(c)3 expert and I only know where the obvious bounds are so I can't comment on the future commercial relationships AS cultivates.
RR
Fred is correct, as are others. The focus has to be on what benefits Appleseed and increases our reach to the folks who have NOT heard our story- the story of our Founding Fathers. SHOTSHOW was discussed to death over the years. It is a show designed to reach folks who already know about us. Heck I'd rather go to a national hairdressers' convention or barbers convention, or any convention of folks that aren't involved in gun sales. Making the contacts and connections at SHOT just isn't as important as saving the nation or making connections at the NRA Convention where we WILL run across folks who have not heard of Appleseed or the RWVA.
I think you'd be surprised how many in the busness haven't heard about AS and if they have, that's about all they know; they've heard about us. While I agree with your comments about the NRA show, what are all of US going to do about those who've heard about AS but haven't gone yet?
RR
All of the above discussions are important. Ask yourself this question. What is the most important aspect about Appleseed to you? For me, I believe that the most important aspect of Appleseed is building relationships. Doesn't matter to me if they are business or personal relations.
If you don't own your own range then you find yourself in a business relationship with the range owner. This is why we have a range fee. We have to pay for the range every shoot and if we come up short on range fees someone has to donate out of their own pocket. We all try hard to fill the lines but sometimes it just doesn't happen.
Now --consider this. This year, 2012, all of our range fees will be covered by a business and in return we will thank them. We have removed the financial burden. If we had a family of four come for the weekend we just cut $40 off of their cost to attend. Creating relations with businesses is beneficial for all. And one last thought. It just so happened that the business relationship we made was with a firearms/ gun type business. The same business relationship can be formed with any type of business that wants to help further the Appleseed mission.
My America, my Appleseed, my mission. ~Two Wolves
Quote from: jrturbo on January 16, 2012, 02:06:27 PM
If we go, there needs to be a concise mission.
How could promoting Appleseed events profit our partner(s)?
Couldn't agree more on the first.
As to a possible answer for the second, how about public relations?
Would Remington, Ruger, or any other gun-related business look good, supporting and sponsoring a program like AS?
How else would they benefit? Let's say there's an Official AS Ammo - about 8
million rounds of .22 rimfire were used at ASs last year, and untold more millions when ASers went home and practiced.
This year, I hope the number will be 16 million - and in 4 years, I hope, if we can achieve our growth goals, the number will be about 500 million - that's
a half-billion rounds - soon we'll be talking about some real numbers! :)
Assuming, .22 rimfire ammo is a competitive market, what's the value of adding "Ammo of choice at Appleseeds!" on the box - that's a nice endorsement from an increasingly well-know outside group.
That's just one example.
We have folks working in this area, coming up with ideas. If you'd like to be part of that effort, or have a good idea for us to consider, please PM SPQR on the forum.
Following extremely interesting - and significant, discussion.
The benefits of manufacturer ( or other related company - like CTD, CDNN, Numrich, Brownell's, Dillon, Cabela's, or the NRA, etc.) support, whether it be in the areas of publicity and promotion, finances and Appleseed "scholarships," or other areas, canNOT be underestimated.
Smith and Wesson, Ruger, and Henry (at least) ALREADY support Appleseed, and have throughout 2011, by including full Appleseed Instructors in their Instructor Purchase Programs, whereby instructors are able to purchase firearms from these manufacturers at a very substantial (appx. 30% off msrp) discount, and will undoubtedly continue the program and the support for 2012.
Continuing to wait, patiently, for AB response to the 12/16/11 proposal relating directly to industry support; re-emphasize that, in order to advance project, must have AB vetting of RWVA promotion support of the proposed program.
Thanks, and excelsior,
madMark
Quick side note: You mean to tell me that once I have a red hat I get 30% off guns?? BRING ON THE IBC!
Back on track: Would it maybe make more sense to partner with one or all of the aforementioned manufacturers and have an Appleseed rep or three work their booths (with their permission of course)? I'm just thinking that AS might get more exposure and look more "established" or "respectable" with big names like that backing us.
Just a thought.