Originally started by flerrly:
i have very little experince loading rifle, mostly i load .45 on a rockchucker but also have a Dillion 550 thats not yet set up. Can you load rifle on a 550? anyway. I have a little experince loading 30'06 for a 1903A3 and i was pleased with the results. So i would like top start loading for my semi's
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 09:30:25 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flyerrly, you can reload rifle ammo with the Dillon, but I recommend you try a different approach.
Size your cases with an RCBS Rockchucker or equivalent, then trim them to length (very important) and chamfer. Every few times reloading them, anneal them. Then run them through the Dillon.
If you want the info to duplicate a particular USGI load, I can get you the info as to what is used.
All you need to do differently for the M1 than the 03-A3 is make sure to properly resize (neck sizing only isn't enough) and use proper burning rate powder. I suggest 4895. It is the proper powder for the M1, either M2 Ball or M72(?) Match ammo.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
flyerrly
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #2 on: May 29, 2007, 09:49:05 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you i'll give it try
Son of Martha
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 11:25:05 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nickle, if you can post the loads for us to mimic mil loads for various calibers, maybe we could make it a sticky.
Also, what are the considerations for using M80 ball projo to reload '06--or M2 ball projo in .308? How about M25 tracer in .308, or M62 in '06? Looks like the only consideration is OAL, or am I missing something?
Seems silly to stock M2, M80, M25, M62 for reloading both calibers...would like to simplify.
SoM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 12:15:22 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Son of Martha on May 30, 2007, 11:25:05 AM
Nickle, if you can post the loads for us to mimic mil loads for various calibers, maybe we could make it a sticky.
Also, what are the considerations for using M80 ball projo to reload '06--or M2 ball projo in .308? How about M25 tracer in .308, or M62 in '06? Looks like the only consideration is OAL, or am I missing something?
Seems silly to stock M2, M80, M25, M62 for reloading both calibers...would like to simplify.
SoM
I'll get something together, and we'll get it sticky'd. I can say that I have used M80 bullets in both the 30-06 and 7.62x54R, no problems, M2 in 7.62 NATO, no problems (watch OAL) and M25 tracers in 7.62 NATO (also watch OAL).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #5 on: May 30, 2007, 07:59:27 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Done. Sticky'd. Right here in the Ammo area.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
KY Gungeek
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #6 on: May 30, 2007, 09:48:24 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Nickle on May 29, 2007, 09:30:25 PM
Flyerrly, you can reload rifle ammo with the Dillon, but I recommend you try a different approach.
Size your cases with an RCBS Rockchucker or equivalent, then trim them to length (very important) and chamfer. Every few times reloading them, anneal them. Then run them through the Dillon.
If you want the info to duplicate a particular USGI load, I can get you the info as to what is used.
All you need to do differently for the M1 than the 03-A3 is make sure to properly resize (neck sizing only isn't enough) and use proper burning rate powder. I suggest 4895. It is the proper powder for the M1, either M2 Ball or M72(?) Match ammo.
I have a 650 and use a very similar approach - I resize and load in different steps. However, I use the Dillon to do the sizing as well. It helps speed up a fairly mundane task and I 've had problems with getting powder into a lubed 223 case (balls up and spills). Here's my process - assuming previously fired and mixed brass:
1) Clean with tumbler (removes crap that could scratch dies and makes things cleaner to handle)
2) Sort head stamps
3) Lube, deprime, size - easy to move fast with a progressive
4) Clean again (clean off the lube)
5) Check length/trim/bevel/chamfer
====good place to put brass in bags to store for later use=====
6) Back off sizer to ensure neck is not out of round from handling/storing, but not touch the body or shoulder
7) Load as usual
Crimp with a Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD)
I use the FCD in all semi-autos. A set back bullet can ruin your day and my experience is that it improves accuracy.
I also have found that I can skip the bevel/chamfer step by using a cool little thing called an M Die. It can be adjusted to put a very small bell on case mouth. The bell works the same way as it does on a pistol case - lets the bullet be seated with out shaving the jacket. The FCD removes the bell. Yes, this does work harden the brass, and if you use the brass more than 5 or 6 times you can get split mouths. But I toss it before I get there.
This creates 223 that runs MOA or less in my Bushy DCM and a heavy barrel varmint upper.
Hope this helps.
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #7 on: May 30, 2007, 09:53:11 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That would work.
I will say I've seen MATCH GRADE ammo made with a Dillon. My father used to throw his powder and seat his bullets for his Bench Rest ammo with his, and it worked well enough for him. I wouldn't myself, but, truth be known, I wouldn't use anything short of Wilson hand dies for it (and I don't recommend those for MBR ammo, BTW). Though I just said I wouldn't do that, I would load Highpower match ammo with the Dillon.
I also have to say Dillon's quality and Service is 100%.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buckshot
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #8 on: May 31, 2007, 03:09:53 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Son of Martha on May 30, 2007, 11:25:05 AM
Nickle, if you can post the loads for us to mimic mil loads for various calibers, maybe we could make it a sticky.
Also, what are the considerations for using M80 ball projo to reload '06--or M2 ball projo in .308? How about M25 tracer in .308, or M62 in '06? Looks like the only consideration is OAL, or am I missing something?
Seems silly to stock M2, M80, M25, M62 for reloading both calibers...would like to simplify.
SoM
Son Of Martha,
The M2 ball and the M80 ball bullet will only make a noticeable difference past 500 or 600 yards, and then probably only a click or two.
The M2 is a flat base 150 gr. bullet and the M80 is a boattail 147 gr. bullet. The M80 bullet will fly a little flatter than the M2 bullet or the M2 will fly with a little more curve than the M80.
It is not going to be much, you could see this by looking at the tables in the back of the Sierra Manual or putting in both a FB 150 and a boattail 150 gr. bullet (if you use real bullets you get proper BC and SD for the program) into a ballistic program.
Easily correctable in an M14, M1 or M1903, not so easy on the M1917 and not so much fun at all on the M1903A3, all due to the various sight designs.
Buckshot
Son of Martha
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #9 on: May 31, 2007, 09:09:26 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yup. The traj is within 1 MOA at 500, which is as far as I am concerned with right now. I was concerned more about the OAL and bearing surface differences, rather than trajectory. I couldn't see any problem but never hurts to ask.
Thanks for the input.
SoM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raise ye the stone or cleave the wood to make a path more fair or flat;
Lo, it is black already with the blood some Son of Martha spilled for that!
Not as a ladder from earth to Heaven, not as a witness to any creed,
But simple service simply given to his own kind in their common need.
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #10 on: May 31, 2007, 09:22:17 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Past 500, you need to consider better bullets. M80 Ball isn't known for great accuracy. I suggest going to 168 gr or (better) 175 gr Sierra's for that. The 168's were designed as a 400 meter bullet, but work to 600, and can be used past that, but the 175 works much better.
If I were using a 30-06, I would consider 190's past 600, especially in a bolt gun.
I know, not a real great idea in the M1, unless you pay close attention to your port pressure. Definitely an Advanced Reloader area, using 190's in the M1. I was tipped off to this by reading Nonte's book, about using Cast Bullets. That is where I found how to get away with the heavier bullets, by adjusting the powder used, and watching port pressure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buckshot
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #11 on: June 1, 2007, 01:16:37 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Nickle on May 31, 2007, 09:22:17 AM
Past 500, you need to consider better bullets. M80 Ball isn't known for great accuracy. I suggest going to 168 gr or (better) 175 gr Sierra's for that. The 168's were designed as a 400 meter bullet, but work to 600, and can be used past that, but the 175 works much better.
If I were using a 30-06, I would consider 190's past 600, especially in a bolt gun.
I know, not a real great idea in the M1, unless you pay close attention to your port pressure. Definitely an Advanced Reloader area, using 190's in the M1. I was tipped off to this by reading Nonte's book, about using Cast Bullets. That is where I found how to get away with the heavier bullets, by adjusting the powder used, and watching port pressure.
Nickel,
have you tried any of the newer Sierra 155 gr. .30 cal. MKs?
I have had a couple of guys tell me they are GREAT, and a couple of others tell me they are junk. Same deal with the Sierra 150 gr. .30 Cal. MKs.
One of them is the "Palma Bullet" but I can't remember which now. These keep talking to me because of the possability of making them closely match M2 or M80 trajectories.
Thanks,
Buckshot
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #12 on: June 1, 2007, 09:04:52 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 155 is the Palma. I haven't used them, yet. I have used a few thousand of the 150 MK's, and they are VERY accurate, though I used them at 100/200 yards in an IBS Hunter Class rifle, in .30 IHMSA and .308 Win, usually with a 12" twist.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buckshot
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #13 on: June 1, 2007, 11:18:39 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Nickle on June 1, 2007, 09:04:52 AM
The 155 is the Palma. I haven't used them, yet. I have used a few thousand of the 150 MK's, and they are VERY accurate, though I used them at 100/200 yards in an IBS Hunter Class rifle, in .30 IHMSA and .308 Win, usually with a 12" twist.
Nickle,
Not quite what you were doing, but when I get a round tuit I have a reject barrel of Dad's laying on the lathe chip pan. 6mm 1:14 chambered for the 6 PPC and removed for having a burned out throat. Hart, I think, or maybe Lilja. 10 1/2 lb. class.
A little checking tells me that the 6 PPC chamber would be totally cleaned up taking it to .243 Win. Thinking about finding an action and building a "short course" NMC gun with that barrel in .243 Win. It won't shoot anything much larger than 68 gr. FB bullets, but no since in leaving it set there or using it for a tomato stake and since we only have 200 and 300 yards at our club the 68 gr. FB should not be that bad a bullet.
Should be a light kicker to get kids into match rifle with (some of our smallbore shooters don't like the post sights on the AR Service Rifles we normally put the kids on the line with) if they want to go that way.
Musings of a "crufflercarp" bottomfeeder (read cheap).
Buckshot
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #14 on: June 3, 2007, 10:05:45 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Before I would go to 243, consider 6x250.
I've shot a fair amount of 52 gr .22 cal bullets at 100/200/300 out of the 222, 223, 22 PPC and 219 Don Wasp. They work reasonably well, and so would that 6mm with 68's. Used to be a Sporter Class gun, at the weight you mentioned, legal in Light Varmint as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buckshot
<< Reply #15 on: June 4, 2007, 02:22:53 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Nickle on June 3, 2007, 10:05:45 PM
Before I would go to 243, consider 6x250.
I've shot a fair amount of 52 gr .22 cal bullets at 100/200/300 out of the 222, 223, 22 PPC and 219 Don Wasp. They work reasonably well, and so would that 6mm with 68's. Used to be a Sporter Class gun, at the weight you mentioned, legal in Light Varmint as well.
Nickle,
You talking about 6mm X 250 Savage or something Else?
I really don't want to get into custom dies or cartridges, and I need something that will work with a standard (8 X 57 - .30-06) length magazine.
Most likely end up on a Mauser '98 action for cheapness. Need a functioning magazine and clip slot to work as an "over the course" or maybe "over the short course" gun.
Buckshot
Nickle
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #16 on: June 4, 2007, 08:40:30 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Buckshot on June 4, 2007, 02:22:53 AM
Nickle,
You talking about 6mm X 250 Savage or something Else?
I really don't want to get into custom dies or cartridges, and I need something that will work with a standard (8 X 57 - .30-06) length magazine.
Most likely end up on a Mauser '98 action for cheapness. Need a functioning magazine and clip slot to work as an "over the course" or maybe "over the short course" gun.
Buckshot
6x250 Savage, yes. It is "semi-standard" by now, and will work in a Remington short action as well as a long action.
If you're using a 98 Mauser action, though, the .243 would work, as the action is loose enough to not worry about a little accuracy loss from the cartridge case capacity not being optimum. In other words, the 98 won't be able to take full advantage of the better accuracy of the 6x250, and will be about as accurate as a .243. Nothing wrong with either cartridge, or the 98, either. Just putting it into perspective. And, yes, I own a 98 Mauser (VZ-24) and a Remington 600 in .243, so, there's no bias on my part.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buckshot
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #17 on: June 5, 2007, 01:03:37 AM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Nickle on June 4, 2007, 08:40:30 AM
Quote from: Buckshot on June 4, 2007, 02:22:53 AM
Nickle,
You talking about 6mm X 250 Savage or something Else?
I really don't want to get into custom dies or cartridges, and I need something that will work with a standard (8 X 57 - .30-06) length magazine.
Most likely end up on a Mauser '98 action for cheapness. Need a functioning magazine and clip slot to work as an "over the course" or maybe "over the short course" gun.
Buckshot
6x250 Savage, yes. It is "semi-standard" by now, and will work in a Remington short action as well as a long action.
If you're using a 98 Mauser action, though, the .243 would work, as the action is loose enough to not worry about a little accuracy loss from the cartridge case capacity not being optimum. In other words, the 98 won't be able to take full advantage of the better accuracy of the 6x250, and will be about as accurate as a .243. Nothing wrong with either cartridge, or the 98, either. Just putting it into perspective. And, yes, I own a 98 Mauser (VZ-24) and a Remington 600 in .243, so, there's no bias on my part.
Nickle,
Several of us have gotten on a "cheap and easy" kick lately. Second gun to loan to people. Good enough that a good shot can grab it and shoot their usual scores, whatever their usual is (we have everything from Marksman to Distinguished Riflemen) but a gun that can be loaned out to a newer shooter to let them experience something new without passing them a $2,000.00 rifle to freak out over.
One guy put good sights on a Yugo M48 with a good barrel and the cheapest near-match-shaped stock for the Yugo M48 that Boyd's makes. Fed it good handloads with the 8mm Sierra MK and a Master could still hold master class with it. My proposed .243 would be the same thing, and you could load the .243 down enough that you would never burn the throat out, relatively.
Buckshot
flyerrly
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #18 on: June 5, 2007, 09:11:54 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in terms of powders rod or ball powders for gas guns?
M1A4ME
Re: loads to mimic mil spec ammo
<< Reply #19 on: June 5, 2007, 09:49:09 PM >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've used either. Winchester (ball) or IMR (rod). Just be sure to use powders of the right burning rate.