Just watched on Netflix the program above.
Overall impression--it's a well done documentary. This is not a drama filled Top Shot. It had exercises that are while approaching in weirdness to what was in Top Shot, are actually what a sniper would face on the battle, including firing your bolt gun from a low flying helicopter. For security purposes, they would not ID some persons or units, and would only disclose the stage and overall winner, not the scores.
In regards to the skill of taking a shot--I know these are top notch sniper teams from several American services, as well as other countries. There were some impressive shots taken. But I felt like on the AS line--this guy is not following through, that one is dragging wood... I'm sure I've missed some. NOBODY used the sling, not even offhand!
I was actually wondering how some of them made such incredible shots!
Thoughts?
Perhaps Boltgun71 will respond to this.
But... The bottom line in all shooting is making the shot. I almost always drag wood with a standard length rifle. But I shoot well doing it. My support elbow may be further to the left than yours, but AMU taught that for International shooting to minimize upper arm pain. Does it matter if I pull up my knee? For me yes, I'm fat and like to breath. But there are many skinny guys that shoot just fine with their legs out straight.
Personally, I don't spend much time critiquing the SEAL who is shooting low to the ground with his legs straight when he is shooting 238 on the AQT with his M14 and standard Ball ammo.
For every rule we teach there is an exception. We need to learn the exceptions so that we can know when to recommend them and when to ignore things that look "different."
BTW have you ever seen a Silhouette match 500 m scoped rifle offhand, no sling. They do it quite well.
The Appleseed shooting positions are ideal for their particular situations. Add equipment such as a bi-pod or rest bags, and the ideal position changes. With the front of the rifle already supported, the support hand comes back to help position the butt-stock. When the support hand is back, the shooter can square up with the rifle for a more optimal shoulder placement and take the recoil with both feet sideways on the ground.
Add tactical gear and concerns about the targets shooting back, other factors have come into the equation and the ideal balance changes again. Fortunately this is Appleseed, not a sniper school. The students can learn more effectively because the focus is on select topics. Learning to do one thing, and the experience of doing it well in the end is far more gratifying than getting an overview of everything under the sun and being good at none of it.
On the line:
Skinny guys who shoot with their legs out straight tend to also have long arms and necks, so they are more in line with the rifle when they go to a prone position. (shorter=more angled, taller=less angled in prone position.) The more inline with the rifle, the better the recoil management and the less important it is to keep that leg up. The upper body mechanics are more important, so this point is not emphasized in order to keep shorter people from trying it.
On hard or very flat surfaces I get a pain on the support side hip bone from putting the knee up. So I put the knee up for demonstrations, but when I'm actually shooting, you might catch me with it down.
I just finished Gun Smithing school in May. One of my teachers was a sniper in Nam. He has 12 world records for distance shooting..... One of the students was a former sniper, another spent 20, yes 20 years on the Army Rifle team.
When asked how they learned how to shoot so well, they would seldom give a direct answer. However, pieces of the many different answers include the following: 1 don't count your shooting experience in the 10's of thousands of rounds. Count it in the 100's of thousands of rounds. 2. Learn to shoot with both eyes open. Use your brain to change focus from the eye with the scope to the eye with the full view of the target environment. No, this is not impossible. I am learning it. You can too. It takes practice. Lots of it....
I think it is like a finger painter in 1st grade asking Leonardo Divenchi how to paint. The answer is that you have to just paint a lot all the time, every time you can...... over time you get much better. A beginner with a year of experience thinks he has been painting a lot..... oh no, he is just getting started.
Another difference is the quality of the gun and the quality of the bullet. With my rifle I can shoot about 1/2 MOA, sometimes less at 100 yards. With my instructor's benchrest rifle I shot 1/2 at 200 yards. The quality of the gun is everything.
At my cousins range I recently tested some ammo. The greek nato 308 surplus shot a group of about 3 inches at 100 yards. Now you know why they sell it so cheap! The ammo that I made shot about 1/2 inch. My M1A1 match rifle could not shoot well with the cheap ammo no mater what. The best ammo will not shoot well in a cheap rifle no matter what.
If you have the best ammo, and a state of the art rifle, and don't know what you are doing, you will not shoot well no matter what. However, if you have a state of the art rifle, and state of the art ammo, and you have shot at least 10's of thousands of rounds perhaps 100's of thousands of rounds, well ..... then you get the top scores.
Speedy used to say "practice is the mother of skill".....
keep shooting!
redneck aka Bob,
Redneck Arms and Survival LLC
redneckintheozarks@centurytel.net
The International Sniper Competition at FT Benning, GA, I have competed twice in it. The first time in 2005 and the second time in 2009.
Its an absolute incredible experience that brings together some of the most talented snipers in the world to a single location. The main draw for the competitors is not so much the competition itself but the sharing of ideas, tactics, and equipment amongst soo many different countries and agencies. Its a great educational opportunity to learn from other snipers and test yourself in stressful situations to see what works and what doesn't. Its also a heck of alot of fun.
As far as the fundamentals of some of the shooters, laying on your belly shooting of a rest is different than Appleseed's field positions with a sling. Only a handful of snipers actually use a sling, as its not required(but is taught for familiarization) in sniper school. A military snipers emphasis is on hitting a 20"x40" silhouette with the aid of a rest, the first time, every time, ideally out to 800-1,000yds. A sniper standard for accuracy is 1MOA off of a rest, while Appleseed's standard is 4MOA, but with a sling as an aid and on a 20"x20" silhouette out to 500yds. Its two different things but both require the mastery of fundamentals. But some of the fundamentals can be different for different rifle systems, such as a rifle with a pistol grip like that on a AR-15. The proper grip and trigger position is not what Appleseed teaches, as the hand should be high on the grip with the trigger finger all the way through the trigger guard with it on the trigger wherever it falls naturally, not usually on the meaty portion of the first digit. You get better leverage and a more consistent trigger pull this way, but it technically is dragging wood. Sniper school also teaches to lay straight behind the rifle for the best recoil management and a lower silhouette, but they're not using a sling for support. Appleseed teaches a sling for support and requires you to be slightly canted behind the rifle and bringing your leg up slightly raises your silhouette.
There is more than one way to shoot, consistency is what matters the most. Appleseed teaches the basics that can be applied to practically any rifle system the best that I have seen. But to maximize the advantage of particular systems or for particular missions and jobs, things can and do get changed. Resting the 30rd magazine on the ground for support with the M-16/AR-15 is an absolute great advantage and helps to maximize the support for the rifle for example, but is not taught by Appleseed and not necessarily easily applied to other rifle systems.
But then in the end, its a competition and the shooters are under stress. For many of the shooters, when under stress you will revert back to your highest level of training and what your comfortable with, which might be for some of them poor fundamentals. When you start thinging about the time, score, and next step of an event, for many your not thinking about fundamentals and they can end up going right out the window, especially when your in a hurry. Sadly, lots of snipers dont get enough trigger time to properly master the fundamentals. Some do, some don't, alot depends on the unit, training budget, facilities available, deployments, and other priorities deemed so by your unit or career track.
Boltgun,
That is a lot of good insight, thank you.
I am new to the sport myself, so I'm still learning.
One of these days I will drag myself to kommie pussy land New York for an AS with you! Take my cousins from NJ that never fired a shot as well...