After watching the USMC clip from WWII where the instructor says to weld your cheek to your thumb, I thought I'd try it out but couldn't even get close! I did manage to get a couple of inches closer down the comb however and liked the results it brought me closer to the sights, blurred the rear sight more and allowed me to focus better on the front sight. Part of the issue may be that my Ruger 10 22 standard walnut stock seems to have (at least for me) a long grip and comb in relation to my hand and arm length.
Does cheek weld distance in relation to sights make a big enough difference to want to change the length of of my stock? Who would I see to figure out what dimensions would work with my body size/type, etc.?
Best,
Steve
In theory, the distance doesn't matter since you're centering the front sight inside the circle of the rear peep. You'd be centered if you were centered three feet from it or centered three millimeters from it. Regardless of the distance, you're centered.
However, as you've already noticed, in practice, this is something that matters.
Think of looking through a scope. There's that distance that everything is perfect. If you're too far forward, it gets blurry. If you're too far back, you can't see the whole circle. You have to find that happy spot.
With peep sights, you're generally better the closer you can get your eye to the peep. That's why the Marines would put cheek to thumb. Also why they now put noses on the charging handle of the black rifles.
With your 10/22, you're already a few inches from your peep. The farther forward you can position your face, the better you'll be able to see through that circle.
Should you change the length? I don't know, it's your stock! If it was mine, I'd cut it down or change it out.
If you're partial to that stock, you should put your face as far forward as it'll go and then get good in that position. A neat trick is to put a kisser button on your stock. You can use a bandage or a piece of tape or something like that. Kiss that same spot every time and you'll be consistent.
Consistency is what matters, not necessarily the distance between your eye and the sight.
Quote from: slim on August 25, 2011, 01:02:27 PM
In theory, the distance doesn't matter since you're centering the front sight inside the circle of the rear peep. You'd be centered if you were centered three feet from it or centered three millimeters from it. Regardless of the distance, you're centered.
However, as you've already noticed, in practice, this is something that matters.
Think of looking through a scope. There's that distance that everything is perfect. If you're too far forward, it gets blurry. If you're too far back, you can't see the whole circle. You have to find that happy spot.
With peep sights, you're generally better the closer you can get your eye to the peep. That's why the Marines would put cheek to thumb. Also why they now put noses on the charging handle of the black rifles.
With your 10/22, you're already a few inches from your peep. The farther forward you can position your face, the better you'll be able to see through that circle.
Should you change the length? I don't know, it's your stock! If it was mine, I'd cut it down or change it out.
If you're partial to that stock, you should put your face as far forward as it'll go and then get good in that position. A neat trick is to put a kisser button on your stock. You can use a bandage or a piece of tape or something like that. Kiss that same spot every time and you'll be consistent.
Consistency is what matters, not necessarily the distance between your eye and the sight.
Very well put... Being an M16/AR guy I tend to be very aggressive with my cheek-weld/eye relief. However this technique is hazardous to my lip when firing the M1 Garand... ???
CH
Quote from: slim on August 25, 2011, 01:02:27 PM
Consistency is what matters, not necessarily the distance between your eye and the sight.
Now, that's the bottom line.
The reasoning for the thumb to cheek interface is that it is 100% repeatable. I do it with my M1 and M14.
With my AR's, different story. I just turkey neck best I can and go with it. With the M4 clone, no problem, it wears a CCO (Aimpoint CompM4 Red Dot). The M16A4 clone is due to get an ACOG.
Thanks for the responses. I'll get as close as I can and be consistent for the time being; later on I'll get the stock adjusted.
Best,
Steve
For precisionshooting: Optimum eye relief from your eye to the rear aperature is about 1-3 inches, based on you, your eye, your rifle etc. Be careful with a scope though. That is why I put an A1 stock on my A2 rifle. No worries about modifying your stock to fit you-it is your rifle. Nickle's point about consistency is an absolute, as changing your position will affect your zero.
I don't think it matters, as long as you are consistent and use the smallest aperture available.
Just from observation at the last Instructor KD course, I noticed that Joe(a high-powered competition shooter) had his eye almost against the rear sight. He also pocketed his buttstock in his elbow pit(standing). He almost looked like he cradled the rifle like a baby(some say we would like to, he actually did). He also did this for the seated and prone positions(eye relief only).
I have never tried to do that, but he consistently scored well 246+
The size rear aperture is totally dependent on the person, their eye and the light conditions of the day. I would never recommend always using the smallest rear aperture you can buy. You might try getting a few differnt ones and trying them to see what works best for you-you might even try the micro sight if you have a prescription.
The smaller the aperture, the sooner the eyestrain starts. This becomes more of an issue the older you get.
Clarification: I meant mainly for tech sites and ARs, where one aperture is much bigger then the other.
Quote from: KYWindage on August 27, 2011, 12:16:25 PM
Just from observation at the last Instructor KD course, I noticed that Joe(a high-powered competition shooter) had his eye almost against the rear sight. He also pocketed his buttstock in his elbow pit(standing). He almost looked like he cradled the rifle like a baby(some say we would like to, he actually did). He also did this for the seated and prone positions(eye relief only).
I have never tried to do that, but he consistently scored well 246+
I know this is an old, old thread, but I really just can't visualize his hold, and it's bugging me. Joe puts the butt of the stock in his elbow, not on his shoulder? The question of recoil aside, how does he get his eyes behind the rear sight?
Yep, a pic would be much appreciated.
Is this something we want to teach at Appleseeds?
I would say Negatron! Teach the fundamentals and you can't go wrong, leave the Voodoo for the witches...
~PlatzOut~
Quote from: lhommedieu on August 25, 2011, 02:25:45 PM
Thanks for the responses. I'll get as close as I can and be consistent for the time being; later on I'll get the stock adjusted.
Best,
Steve
Before adjusting the length of pull on your stock, first try adjusting your body geometry. Addressing your target at a greater or lesser angle can change how far forward you can push that cheek weld...
Aaaaaaaaand just realized this was an old topic. I'll mosey along now. :slap:
Alas, there are no pictures!
It was weird to see. He aslo shot with a leather strap and shooting jacket, but his eye was almost glued to the rear sight.
In everything there are always freaks of nature! :) Tech sights different size? Mine aren't?...O.L.
Footnote:
DRY FIRE PRACTICE WITH YOUR SAFETY GLASSES ON.
I was doing a Cheekweld with the Thumb indexed to my face.
Practiced it a ton....when I went to shoot with it, my Glasses fogged up like crazy :)
Spit in your glasses and rub it in, or shaving cream works, or you can buy anti fog whipes
~PlatzOut~
I had a terrible problem with wraparound shooting glasses fogging up. I switched to aviator style safety glasses with side shields and it's no longer an issue.
Dave
My biggest problem is not the fog but dang sweat dripping into me eyes. I may have solved that problem depending upon how a couple of different styles of sweat bands I bought work. If they don't work I'll fold a microfiber towel up and make my own sweatband. I did find this which I hope works well. http://www.sweatgutr.com/ (http://www.sweatgutr.com/). I plan to put a sweatband above it.
(http://www.sweatgutr.com/images/product-blue.jpg)
Might sound weird, but put a little anti persperent on your forehead, just make sure it's not deoderent, that will not stop the sweat just make your forehead smell nice.
~PlatzOut~
Quote from: Pitmaster on June 28, 2012, 11:46:38 AM
My biggest problem is not the fog but dang sweat dripping into me eyes. I may have solved that problem depending upon how a couple of different styles of sweat bands I bought work. If they don't work I'll fold a microfiber towel up and make my own sweatband. I did find this which I hope works well. http://www.sweatgutr.com/ (http://www.sweatgutr.com/). I plan to put a sweatband above it.
(http://www.sweatgutr.com/images/product-blue.jpg)