I have very little experience with long guns. Until last weekend I put a total of about 400 rounds through my father's mid-30's Winchester 69. I went to an AS weekend and realized that my skill and an iron sight bolt gun were a bad combination for this. So I bought a .22 semiauto and a box of ammo. Had a few jams right off and noticed the bullets were greasy, some even had li'l gobs of grease on them so I decided to run a snake thru the barrel and wipe down the bullets. While wiping them down, I noticed a bunch of the lead would turn in the casing. Checked some other ammo I had and found the same. Bought a few more types and found two that didnt turn.
I am just wondering if this is normal or .....I have seen a bunch of .22s jam. Was one of the things that kept me from getting one sooner. I need to get more time on the gun and see what ammo it likes but I got to wondering....do people sort ammo before a shoot .
The goop on the bullets is lube and is an important component in most rimfire bullets and should not be wiped down or removed.
Bullets should be snug in .22lr cases. You can grab a good cartridge and twist or wiggle them loose.
If all yours are loose it could be either a manafacturing error or mishandeling.
They probably will still shoot under 4 minutes at 25 yards.
The lube is a good thing. The loose bullets is not really bad, most all .22 ammo will do this it is just the way it is manufactured. Don't worry about it just shoot it and buy another box and repeat. O0
I thank you for the input, gentlemen. In my defense, a few of the bullets had gobs of grease on em. I realize that in polite circles a Half a Booger is not a recongnized unit of measure but that is about what was on some of them. And so I started wiping a few down.
Can we ask what type of rifle and ammo that you bought? Also, was the rifle brand new or older and dirty. Also, was the jam a failure to eject or failure to feed? The lead turning isn't a big deal unless they also pop off the case.
Usually jams are due to a dirty action. Some 22s use dirtier powder than others and can mess up an action in no time.
I did not put names in originally because I did not want to be slamming products I know little about.
Gun is Remington 597, bull barrel ? , gray plastic stock. Bought barely used. Did not clean first as it looked pretty clean (closer look revealed bit worse than I thought)
Ammo with extra? grease. Centurion 22lr, high velocity, 10 packs of 50. Looked over 150? rounds, maybe a dozen were "gooped up" One or two got into gun as one mag was gooped. 50 % or more loose lead, (varying degrees) which , as it turns out, may not be a big deal. Only ammo fired thru gun cept for a few rounds of Blazer (all tight) left over from AS. Jam or two with Blazer but dirt may be issue. ( or just not the right ammo for that gun)
More loose ammo. Rem. Thunderbolt, old bolt gun ammo, lots loose but not by much. (not fired yet)
Federal Value Pack. Wally world, all tight so far. (not fired yet)
Remington Cyclone. Few are a bit loose, mostly tight (not fired yet)
Just to confuse things. I put a halt to my experiments til this nasty cold goes away. Thinking is tough and I would just end up confusing myself. (I know it sounds lame but this is a mean cold)
Jams were of stovepipe? nature. shell out of chamber but not clear of gun. They came to rest in different places inside receiver.
I plan on putting a Voquartsen extractor in and learning to clean gun properly and see where I end up then.
"...So I bought a .22 semiauto and a box of ammo..."
It's prudent to prove out your rifle and ammo choice, and sight in, prior to the Appleseed. It's entirely possible to arrive on scene with a brand new rifle, newly bought ammo, and experience function failures due to the rifle, the ammo, or both.
Changing ammunition may increase reliability.
Changing rifle parts may increase reliability, such as extractor, extractor spring. In my case, Volquartsen extractor fixed an intransigent Ruger.
Nevertheless, persist. Sort out your equipment issues before your next Appleseed. The New Englanders would have loved to have our marvelous modern dinner-bringers; you can surely find a reliable combination of equipment and do them proud. Sounds like you have several other ammo combinations to try.
In your place I would:
1) Thoroughly disassemble the rifle and clean it. Lube and reassemble.
2) Test fire ammunition until an ammo brand provides 50 out of 50 correct firing cycles. (correct = trigger pull + bang + complete eject + chamber the next round)
3) If unable to identify a reliable ammunition choice, replace the extractor and spring and try 1), 2) again.
You'll get there.
We try not to slam anyone's rifles but we know specific models are more prone to specific problems. Unfortunately, I don't have a Rem 597 and really don't know them. But usually stovepipes are due to incomplete extraction. Which could be a dirty chamber or faulty claw. On the Ruger 10/22s if you don't have the barrel on right the extractor can ride the edge of it's groove in the barrel face and cause problems. Look to see if your extractor is centered in it's groove and nothing is gumming up the works.
Before cleaning and/or troubleshooting the rifle make sure the rifle is safe and the ammo is in a different room. You might want to get some spray gun cleaner and some One Shot (cleaner and dry lube). Use the little tube and spray a good bit of the cleaner right into the extractor spring area of the bolt and down the extractor groove. Get a little pick (like a dental pick) and clean out the groove. After everything looks good spray the One Shot in there again and work the bolt several times. You can also get a 22LR chamber brush (which is a little different than a 22LR bore brush) and really clean the chamber. If that doesn't help, I'd go the new extractor route.
What ever you do, do it safely and get it working befoe the next Appleseed event. You'll get a lot more out of it! ^:)^
Again, I really do appreciate the input and I completely agree , no appleseeds until I get this straightened out.
I took an accidental nap today and woke up in a rare moment of clarity. Took the gun apart some, not as complicated as the manual made it look thru the brain fog. I did not do the rails as I did not have a baby torque wrench for reassembly. Gonna look for one tomorrow. I had mentioned I thought the gun looked pretty clean from what I could see.....not even close :) Got a paper towel full of stuff I flushed out of there, sand, metal flakes (think they might be bullet shavings). I am tempted to let it dry, frame it and hang it up with a li'l sign "So You Think Your Gun Is Clean?"
I'm actually pretty enthused about this. I like tinkering with things...sometimes. The gun shoots very well, I like the weight and it fits me. If I can get it to reliable, then its time to mount a sling, no holes at all so I am free to wing it. Move the scope forward a bit. I think I will have a pretty good shooter then. An odd thing tho, the gray stock makes me want to draw pictures on it....I have resisted so far and I know that no good will come of it , still.....
I probably shouldn't even have mentioned that.
Looking at a stock and seeing a blank canvas?
I know the symptoms well...
Dura-Coat is addictive...
(forgive me for getting off topic...)
Quote from: TN_Dadx5 on August 14, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
On the Ruger 10/22s if you don't have the barrel on right the extractor can ride the edge of it's groove in the barrel face and cause problems.
I didn't know that... :o ...learn something new every day!
An update, 'cause I know your on the edge of your seats ;) and because you were all very helpful.
Let's see. Major cleaning, back to the range, still jamming problems. Also, almost shotgun pattern with groupings. I think this was because I was careless torqueing on the receiver screws? The ones that mount the whole unit back in the stock. So...
Take apart again, do the rods this time as I had a baby torque wrench by then. Ordered the Volquartsen extractor and hammer at same time. Carefully assemble, partially ignoring manual specs, like on rod set screws. I know...buy a torque wrench and then dont use it on rod set screws but I was not liking the feel. It works fine on the receiver screws tho anyway. So....
Well, there were a few times in first ten rounds that the bolt stayed back. It seems the new hammer and the bolt had to get better acquainted. I just had to hope they would learn to get along before the pressure messed up something else. I could tell by manual operation that there was friction there. Put a bit of grease there to ease the break in and by end of first magazine, everything was running smoothly. I shot about 70 rounds. No more bolt hang ups, not a single failure of any kind. 1" group....is that the same as MOA? at 25 yds. On sand bags. I had to make sure the gun was doin its job.
Ammo de jeur was Blazer. As it seems I have a working combo, it's time to mount a sling and start practicing. Added bonus to the practice is making sure the gun is reliable.
Thanks to all for the help.
I still have not decorated or desecrated the stock yet.
A one inch group at 100 yards is 1 minute of angle.
A one inch group at 25 yards is 4 minutes of angle.
Does this sound strangely like Inches Minutes Clicks?
Yeah, but I'm old, my brain is full. It takes some repetition for things to stick these days. #) After I posted I began to think I had that wrong but I let it slide.
Is the rear edge of the chamber damaged from the firing pin? I'm not familiar with your rifle, some rifles will get this damage from 'dry firing' some will not. The damage will cause a case to stick, and the 'drag' mark can be seen on the case. The damage can be removed with careful use of a taper punch.
I think in this case it was dirt and the stock extractor. The chamber rim looks good and once I worked in the new hammer, the bolt no longer stuck open. I put 70 rounds after the first "test" magazine and no hang ups. The tapered punch thing sounds like a good idea in the condition you are asking about. I just know I would get if off-center. I did not look at the empty brass after this round but had looked at some earlier and no drag marks.
I just slid the scope forward a bit and will check that out tomorrow. I need to get a lil notebook and start keeping track of mods and changes and the results. One change at a time makes trouble shooting a lot easier but the temptation to to stack em up will be hard to over come. Make it easier to keep track of ammo preferences too. This is getting to be like science....