Here is something I'll throw out for everyone, loop slings that won't stay put. Some do, some don't. After trying to determine why one wouldn't stay up on a youngster, I noticed the buckle end was different then mine. Look at the photo below. The bottom sling is how it is out of the package. It has 2-3" overlapped and sewn, mine I had bought some time ago only had about 1" sewn, it will stay up on the arm great but the other will not stay tight and you'll fight it constantly. Frustration that's not needed. I cut the stitching and re-sewed with a leather stitching awl with about 1" overlap as the top sling shows. That cures the problem. Figured if I've seen the problem, so has others and this is a cure....O.L.
(http://www.bowmaker.net/images/sling.jpg)
I just tell 'em that growing a bicep will help with that problem. **)
I'll have to take a look at the slings I just got from the CMP, and see if they are as you described. Biggest problem I've encountered with these ones is that the adjusting tab takes an inordinate amount of force to lock down... Any fix for that?
Theoretically speaking, that shouldn't be an issue, considering we're not using that loop.
Now, I'm going to throw you a real curve ball.
For youths and ladies with small stature, I actually recommend using a hasty sling, as it better supports the muzzle. Of course, this usually only applies when they have difficulty holding the rifle up.
How that works is simple. A dip of the muzzle actually pulls on the sling, at the rear, and creates tension on the sling in general, making it harder for the muzzle to dip. Figured this out with female soldiers that had difficulty holding their M16A2's steady. Get them in a hasty sling, and they could hold signifigant down force on the muzzle, very steady hold.
"Theoretically speaking, that shouldn't be an issue, considering we're not using that loop."
It sure does however, those with the large sewn overlap do not cinch down well. They will if you hold tention on it but ease up into the ready position or leave it hanging on your arm, it'll fall down in short order.
"For youths and ladies with small stature, I actually recommend using a hasty sling, as it better supports the muzzle. Of course, this usually only applies when they have difficulty holding the rifle up."
It's faster and easier to understand (but not put into use) and get into but there tend to be lots of variation as they don't get it in the same place each time. It's slower too compared to a properly adjusted loop with a QD up front.
" Biggest problem I've encountered with these ones is that the adjusting tab takes an inordinate amount of force to lock down"
Sure, get a punch and work it over! :) I bend the "tab" up with a pair of pliers that helps too......O.L.
Never doubted what you were saying, so you know. Yup, that does make some sense, once you mentioned why it does that.
The hasty sling for those having trouble holding the rifle up makes sense too. I'm talking when a loop sling just is NOT cutting it. It does happen, but to explain why, I'd have to show you. The visual is very convincing. Not many people that it applies to, but they are out there. Usually a shooter with short arms and a long heavy rifle. I have seen it work for a 4'9" shooter with a 20" AR (M16A2). Made all the difference in the world, as in between qualifying and not qualifying (military shooter on a pop-up range).
On the flip side, I have it on good authority that the ladies with the larger stature are far better off using a loop sling (ask my daughter, she is a definite loop sling user).
For those having issues with forcing the tab, make it work, like Oladcock says. No excuse for not doing that.
Now, so y'all know Nickle is a 1907 sling kind of guy, so, I'm not biased for or against the loop or hasty sling. I teach them all (including the 1907), and have used them all. "Your mileage may vary" (that means use what works for you).
Not many service rifles have QD sling swivels/posts up front.
How can the hasty be slower than the loop? Sticking an arm through the sling and sitting the rifle in your hand is slower than grabbing the end of the sling, pushing a button, lining up the QD swivel with the hole in the post and then inserting it and swinging the latch into place - before you put your arm through the sling and lay the stock in your hand?
I'd need to see a demonstration to convince me.
"How can the hasty be slower than the loop?"
Part of what I try to do is reduce the time spent fiddling with slings in favor of trigger time. I re-rig the slings on all our personal guns, including the loaners (guns and slings) with the hook up front. (I run hooks on both ends) Run the loop up your arm and let it hang, during mag preps etc....Some can transition from standing to sitting or prone in a hasty but most have to climb into it "down there". The loop eliminates that. It's faster, much faster...As long as you're not having to put it on and off, on and off....
"For those having issues with forcing the tab, make it work, like Oladcock says. No excuse for not doing that.
Now, so y'all know Nickle is a 1907 sling kind of guy, so, I'm not biased for or against the loop or hasty sling. I teach them all (including the 1907), and have used them all. "Your mileage may vary" (that means use what works for you)."
Oh yes, teach them all and in the end, let them make the choice. Part of where I'm going with this is feed back from students and adding up the wait time we see expended on sling fussers! :)...O.L.
Never having shot a 1907...a few questions. Have one on my Winchester 75
1.)Where to find a diagram on attaching it to a rifle.(properly, as I have seen a couple different ways)
2. are there different adjustments for different positions?
3.) Is there a way to make the frog (?) slip into the holes easier?
A PM or answer here is appreciated. Thanks
Check the website of Fulton Armory, they used to have a link to a WWII GI tutorial on the M1907 sling.
easyer way to fix ,,take it to your local shoe repair shop your shoe repairman has a machine called a patching machine it will sew that thick and it can also be used to sew patches on allmost anything (shooters jackets etc,,) said patching machine has a walking foot and sew's in any direction also has a free arm not a table ,,,I think some might be surprised at what all can be done in a boot and shoe repair shop ,,,,,nope I have not been in that biz for a few years.
Wade
Link to the web sling: http://www.ray-vin.com/tech/websling/webslinghelp.htm
Link to the 1907 leather sling: http://www.ray-vin.com/frtech.htm
One of the things I think we have lost/forgotten is that while competition may be fun to many folks the rifle was not intended for competition - it was meant to be a tool to provide both food and protection for a man and his family (that doesn't mean only a man shoulld use it - it means what it says, at the time the rifle was developed it was meant to be used as a tool to help insure the survival of individuals and families).
If the intent is to learn to use a rifle for that purpose then (for me anyway) it changes what rifle I use, how I set that rifle up and how I use that rifle.
Quote from: sparks1 on June 16, 2011, 11:46:06 PM
Never having shot a 1907...a few questions. Have one on my Winchester 75
1.)Where to find a diagram on attaching it to a rifle.(properly, as I have seen a couple different ways)
2. are there different adjustments for different positions?
3.) Is there a way to make the frog (?) slip into the holes easier?
A PM or answer here is appreciated. Thanks
1 1/4" 1907 sling you can use like a loop sling. I like the ones from Springfield Armory (the new one,not the real one in Mass). A good one isn't cheap, around $30.
1" "military type" sling (looks like a 1907, but narrower and not as strong) you rarely can use like a loop sling. I've yet to see one of the 1" slings that was rugged enough to use like a 1907 sling. What you do then is use as a hasty sling, and call it good.
The frog will be stiff, for a while, then the sling breaks in. Treating the sling with neatfoot's oil helps them a lot.
" it means what it says, at the time the rifle was developed it was meant to be used as a tool to help insure the survival of individuals and families)."
Exactly OD, they make different sized hammers and wrenches for a reason...O.L.
I tried (not for a real long time) a 1907 sling on my newest M1917. Unfortunately it was summer here in VA and I sweat like a pig. That leather sling stuck to my arm like it had glue on it. It was a fight to get it on and a fight to get it off (using it loop style). It was just easier to go back to a web style sling so I bought a reproduction Kerr "no-buckle" sling for it.
I've got web slings on all my rifles (and a couple shotguns >:D) but I'm a hasty sling guy. If I'm out and need to grab the rifle and shoot it the loop sling won't be quick enough. It might work pretty good ambushing ground hogs though. @)
Quote from: ItsanSKS on June 16, 2011, 01:36:48 AM
I just tell 'em that growing a bicep will help with that problem. **)
I'll have to take a look at the slings I just got from the CMP, and see if they are as you described. Biggest problem I've encountered with these ones is that the adjusting tab takes an inordinate amount of force to lock down... Any fix for that?
stick a 5/32 or 4mm allen wrench in there and force it closed. do this in the middle and once again halfway on each side and they come out perfect everytime. tight enough not to slip yet 99% of folks can close them easy.
FYI - CMP just last week (6/15/2011) listed web slings @ $7.95 (along with other goodies)...worth a look.
CDNN out of Texas and Numrich (Gun Parts, West Hurley, NY) also good sources for both slings and swivels
(CDNN has center push-button quick release swivel, WITH threaded, hex head stock mount, for about $12 per set).
Excelsior,
madMark