For those of you who are wondering why I don't have any Russian/Soviet weapons, here is the answer. The Mosin Nagants I have are Finnish. I may eventually get something that shoots 7.62x39, and it will in all probability be either Serbian or Czech. >:( &)
(http://pics.livejournal.com/mpopenker/pic/00082tyx)
Just wondering, how exactly is a shovel, Soviet engineering? ::)
Quote from: AmericaStandsStrong on June 03, 2011, 05:16:17 PM
Just wondering, how exactly is a shovel, Soviet engineering? ::)
When used as a frying pan???
AK sidefolder used as a toaster?
I have used a pistol as a bottle opener, though.
I've tried poking holes in each end of an egg, poking a stick through end to end and "roasting" it over a fire. You need to start with several since you won't have a 100% success rate. Oh, yeah, use a long stick as partially cooked egg is still pretty hot when it explodes out of the shell.
A clean shovel would appear to be better solution. ;)
Reminds me of a story from the space race.
Soviet engineers realized a normal ballpoint pen would not work in space. They set about finding a replacement.
American engineers realized a normal ballpoint pen would not work in space. They set about finding a replacement.
The Americans spent several million dollars to engineeer, design, build and test their replacement - The Space Pen. It's a pressurized pen that will work without gravity. American innovation can fix any problem in the world. And beyond!
The Soviets used a pencil.
Quote from: slim on June 06, 2011, 09:00:15 AM
Reminds me of a story from the space race.
<...>
And Snopes spoils another great story... :(
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp (http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp)
Quote from: slim on June 06, 2011, 09:00:15 AM
The Soviets used a pencil.
...and a decade later all that graphite dust floating about fried the electronics in the space station. Cheaper to use the space pen, no? ++)
It truely makes me want to buy more Russian Military Surplus. If all fails, fail to use it for what it was manufactured for. ;D
Doug :---
I like it!
Thanks Alex
Guy
I just became an AK fan. ;D
Quote from: GoldFish on June 09, 2011, 12:34:32 AM
I just became an AK fan. ;D
I worry about you... #)
I've been an AK fan for a while. Think about it, a gun that almost never needs cleaning, has a huge mag capacity, scares the livin' crap out of whoever makes the mistake of trying to break into the house, and is very cheap to shoot.
Doug :---
Quote from: Dougum on June 09, 2011, 11:33:17 PM
I've been an AK fan for a while. Think about it, a gun that almost never needs cleaning, has a huge mag capacity, scares the livin' crap out of whoever makes the mistake of trying to break into the house, and is very cheap to shoot.
Doug :---
...is a gun that cannot hit a target beyond 100 meters.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 03, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Quote from: Dougum on June 09, 2011, 11:33:17 PM
I've been an AK fan for a while. Think about it, a gun that almost never needs cleaning, has a huge mag capacity, scares the livin' crap out of whoever makes the mistake of trying to break into the house, and is very cheap to shoot.
Doug :---
...is a gun that cannot hit a target beyond 100 meters.
Good ones can! Ok, VEPR isn't exactly typical, but supposedly good Century and Arsenal ones can too. Personally, I'll belieive it when i see it.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 03, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Quote from: Dougum on June 09, 2011, 11:33:17 PM
I've been an AK fan for a while. Think about it, a gun that almost never needs cleaning, has a huge mag capacity, scares the livin' crap out of whoever makes the mistake of trying to break into the house, and is very cheap to shoot.
Doug :---
...is a gun that cannot hit a target beyond 100 meters.
Thats why it has a 30+ round mag capacity. Just empty the darn thing
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
Quote from: professor gun on July 03, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
O0 O0 O0
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 03, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
Quote from: Dougum on June 09, 2011, 11:33:17 PM
I've been an AK fan for a while. Think about it, a gun that almost never needs cleaning, has a huge mag capacity, scares the livin' crap out of whoever makes the mistake of trying to break into the house, and is very cheap to shoot.
Doug :---
...is a gun that cannot hit a target beyond 100 meters.
You might have to work harder at it but it can get the job done not my style of Rifle as to "century arms " I have owned exactly 2 century arm's redone Rifles I WILL NOT EVER OWN A 3RD ONE ,,its the nut behind the butt not the Rifle .
Wade
Quote from: professor gun on July 03, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
An exception confirms the rule.
Quote from: Roland on July 03, 2011, 12:51:43 PM
Good ones can!
Define "good" in relation to AKs, please.
I have read about a company that makes CNC-machined AK here in the States that shoots 3MOA. Generally, AKs shoot 4MOA, and Russian/Soviet military shoot to a 6MOA standard, someone wrote about that here on the forum. Hardly something to write home about.
Quote from: Dougum on July 03, 2011, 01:20:49 PM
Thats why it has a 30+ round mag capacity. Just empty the darn thing
Bingo! Spraying (praying is prohibited in USSR) gets expensive, however. And does nothing to improve your shooting skill. :)
If I was forced to get anything in 7.62x39, I would get a VZ 52/57 or VZ 58. Czechs were riflemen, and they made even that cartridge reasonably (and I use that term loosely) accurate.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 03, 2011, 10:41:50 AM...is a gun that cannot hit a target beyond 100 meters.
My wife had no problems hitting steel at 300... from standing!
Good in relation to AKs is something custom built. From Krebs, Fuller Dynamics (CR Williams choice for carbine), or a VEPR.
I have seen reviews where a Century machined shot 2.5-3 MOA.
I sure like my AK-47 Romanian WASR-10 that was imported through Century Arms...enjoy ringing steel at 200-300 yards. I've been thinking about putting a USGI sling on it and doing a few AQTs with it for fun :)
:---
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 06, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: professor gun on July 03, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
An exception confirms the rule.
Quote from: Roland on July 03, 2011, 12:51:43 PM
Good ones can!
Define "good" in relation to AKs, please.
I have read about a company that makes CNC-machined AK here in the States that shoots 3MOA. Generally, AKs shoot 4MOA, and Russian/Soviet military shoot to a 6MOA standard, someone wrote about that here on the forum. Hardly something to write home about.
Quote from: Dougum on July 03, 2011, 01:20:49 PM
Thats why it has a 30+ round mag capacity. Just empty the darn thing
Bingo! Spraying (praying is prohibited in USSR) gets expensive, however. And does nothing to improve your shooting skill. :)
If I was forced to get anything in 7.62x39, I would get a VZ 52/57 or VZ 58. Czechs were riflemen, and they made even that cartridge reasonably (and I use that term loosely) accurate.
7.62x39 640 rnd tin = $160-$180 In Wall Mart Your lookin at $5 per box of 20.
Quote from: Dougum on July 06, 2011, 04:31:06 PM
7.62x39 640 rnd tin = $160-$180 In Wall Mart Your lookin at $5 per box of 20.
640 rds--light load for the ruck march, there. Also, making every round count.
Quote from: Blue Five on July 06, 2011, 04:04:18 PM
I sure like my AK-47 Romanian WASR-10 that was imported through Century Arms...enjoy ringing steel at 200-300 yards. I've been thinking about putting a USGI sling on it and doing a few AQTs with it for fun :)
:---
Some are made of harder stuff than others. Or have a lot more patience, as is the case.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on June 03, 2011, 03:20:03 PM
For those of you who are wondering why I don't have any Russian/Soviet weapons, here is the answer.
You're not alone -
I have a close friend who was raised in the Soviet Union and he too WILL NOT own
any Soviet rifles/pistols but has many Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, Czech, Yugo, etc although several are of Soviet design origin......
Quote from: vernic82 on July 07, 2011, 08:30:17 AM
Quote from: sashok.privetov on June 03, 2011, 03:20:03 PM
For those of you who are wondering why I don't have any Russian/Soviet weapons, here is the answer.
You're not alone -
I have a close friend who was raised in the Soviet Union and he too WILL NOT own any Soviet rifles/pistols but has many Polish, Romanian, Hungarian, Czech, Yugo, etc although several are of Soviet design origin......
Good to know... My objection is less political (tho I am hardly a fan), and more practical. Russian/soviet authority did not really care for the people, and the guns reflected that--they made arms that were cheap, virtually indestructible, but were not really designed for use by humans.
Czechs realized that, and came up with their own version of a gun for the same purpose, one that took into account human physiology. Finns did the same with Mosin Nagant--not a whole lot to work with, but compare M91/30 with M39. Both Czech and Finnish guns are a lot more accurate than the Russian counterparts.
That said, I would love to own SVT-40 and SVD, as those rifles were designed in a rare flash of common sense so lacking in USSR, and thusly, are actually usable and accurate.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 06, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: professor gun on July 03, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
An exception confirms the rule.
If you are saying this target is an exception, you are not correct. I can shoot targets like this all day with my AK.
It is a good, reliable, basic rifle.
If you are saying the rifle is an exception, I have another basic, stock AK that shoots like this.
Marksmanship is probably more dependent upon the person using the firearm than the firearm itself. Not everyone can afford a Cadillac, most folks have to settle for a Chevy or a Ford. And they serve the owner just as well, they just are not as stylish.
Quote from: professor gun on July 09, 2011, 10:30:03 PM
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 06, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: professor gun on July 03, 2011, 01:41:07 PM
(//)
Prone, stock WASR AK-47 with stock sights using Silver Bear 7.62 X 39mm ammo.
25 meters
An exception confirms the rule.
If you are saying this target is an exception, you are not correct. I can shoot targets like this all day with my AK.
It is a good, reliable, basic rifle.
If you are saying the rifle is an exception, I have another basic, stock AK that shoots like this.
Marksmanship is probably more dependent upon the person using the firearm than the firearm itself. Not everyone can afford a Cadillac, most folks have to settle for a Chevy or a Ford. And they serve the owner just as well, they just are not as stylish.
I completely agree eccept for one thing. Most people drive Fords.
Doug
Once again ,,
Its the nut behind the butt= its the Indian not the arrow.
However one may have to work harder with some rifles then others ,
I do not at this time own an ak they just don't fit me ,, I do however have sks's,and lately have been testing of all things a French rifle ,strange little rifle to be sure but add a web sling and get used to the sights and it is surpisingly good.
Wade
Quote from: Wade on July 10, 2011, 01:52:54 PM
Once again ,,
Its the nut behind the butt= its the Indian not the arrow.
However one may have to work harder with some rifles then others ,
I do not at this time own an ak they just don't fit me ,, I do however have sks's,and lately have been testing of all things a French rifle ,strange little rifle to be sure but add a web sling and get used to the sights and it is surpisingly good.
Wade
Where does one find a French rifle? Just curious and possibly willing to buy one...
Doug :---
Quote from: Dougum on July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM
[
Where does one find a French rifle? Just curious and possibly willing to buy one...
Doug :---
In France?
Sorry, Doug. Couldn't resist. >:D
Yeah you could, Ya know ya could,
Doug :---
Where does one find a French rifle? Just curious and possibly willing to buy one...
Doug :---
[/quote] ReaLLy for not much more $ you would be better off with an m-1 Garand , the short comeing of the Mas 49/56 is ammo supply the only way it becomes really useable is if you are willing to buy the brass and load your own (use cci milspec #34 primers ) Yes there is boxed ammo for it on the market but the primers are to soft and prone to slamfires , surplus is iffy at best and I have not heard very much good about the surplus 7.5x54 french ammo out there ,,now given all that If you still want to buy a french rifle try www.gunbroker.com and look up mas 49/56 notice this rifle is not leagal in CA and perhaps some other states .
There is also the older mas 36 a bolt action military rifle they are also abit odd same off beat ammo.
I bougth it while I was on the road and had no rifle with me it came with ammo .
Wade
Years ago I was a radar & communications engineer doing alot of DoD work, and I was always very impressed with Soviet solutions to technical problems, no matter how crude they may seem, initially. Their grasp of physics and their pragmatism provided some very elegant and powerful solutions to problems we struggled with, and we spent alot of your money. Sometimes we did not immediately see something they understood and had used advantageously.
If, during the cold war, they had access to the money we spent on our systems, we might all be speaking Russian as a second language.
The people I know who have faced AKs in combat sometimes wished they were carrying AKs instead of M16s.
Just saying... I, for one, want the Soviet engineers on our side, if it comes down to it.
Quote from: Patent guy on July 13, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
Years ago I was a radar & communications engineer doing alot of DoD work, and I was always very impressed with Soviet solutions to technical problems, no matter how crude they may seem, initially. Their grasp of physics and their pragmatism provided some very elegant and powerful solutions to problems we struggled with, and we spent alot of your money. Sometimes we did not immediately see something they understood and had used advantageously.
If, during the cold war, they had access to the money we spent on our systems, we might all be speaking Russian as a second language.
The people I know who have faced AKs in combat sometimes wished they were carrying AKs instead of M16s.
Just saying... I, for one, want the Soviet engineers on our side, if it comes down to it.
Me too. The guy at the Local mil surp shop toured Iraq a few times and since then has bought 5 AK's with Separate Full Auto kits. Just sayin'
Doug
The round(7.62x39) inside BSZ, is very deadly.
Not the most accurate, usually due to the rifles quality,or lack thereof.
Between the rifles that fire this round,some are more accurate than others and there are hundreds of different SKS"S and AK"S.
Almost any shape or size.
The most likely round to be found any were in the world!
Quote from: Sly223 on July 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
The round(7.62x39) inside BSZ, is very deadly.
Not the most accurate, usually due to the rifles quality,or lack thereof.
Between the rifles that fire this round,some are more accurate than others and there are hundreds of different SKS"S and AK"S.
Almost any shape or size.
The most likely round to be found any were in the world!
The biggest prblem in this country with those rifles is the ammo ,,,,Most of the ammo we get here (wolf goldentiger etc) the bullet is .308 when what is called for is .311 ,,,best buy currently to feed your sks or ak is the yugo milsurp ammo but is corrosive so you will have to clean your rifle when your done shooting (your sapose to do that anyways right ) remember to use sweets 7.62 first or hot soapy water or mix your own cleaner amonia and water then clean as normal.
imho the sks is under rated by most folks .
Wade
Quote from: Wade on July 14, 2011, 12:56:37 AM
imho the sks is under rated by most folks .
I agree. I just purchased one today dirt cheap for kicks and giggles. If you can get them cheap, they are a fun (and fairly accurate) rifle to have. Ammo is cheap (for now, at least).
the saying about french military rifles implies they could be found in very good condition "Dropped once, never fired"
Where does one find a French rifle?
according to the saying the answer would be on the ground
At some point I will be selling the one I have I bought it FTF and will sell it that way,the rcbs reloading dies are on the way and also the cci#34 primers , I want to work with it abit before I move onto something else ,I also have a younger friend that has no semi auto rifle at all that has expessed an intrest in it ,,this is not my MBR I have afew that are better then it allready.
btw I live in WA state if intrested show up at one of the shoots at WA DAR .
By the time of the next shoot I sould have more info on it and a load worked up for it with what is avilable and low cost (thinking 145 gr fmj bullets and wc 846 powder ).
I had bought this thinking Truck gun( Truck I drive cross country for a living) and opps forgot about the gernade laucher and California law's :P so it will not work for that for me in that role :wall:
Wade
Quote from: Wade on July 14, 2011, 02:57:29 AM
At some point I will be selling the one I have I bought it FTF and will sell it that way,the rcbs reloading dies are on the way and also the cci#34 primers , I want to work with it abit before I move onto something else ,I also have a younger friend that has no semi auto rifle at all that has expessed an intrest in it ,,this is not my MBR I have afew that are better then it allready.
btw I live in WA state if intrested show up at one of the shoots at WA DAR .
By the time of the next shoot I sould have more info on it and a load worked up for it with what is avilable and low cost (thinking 145 gr fmj bullets and wc 846 powder ).
I had bought this thinking Truck gun( Truck I drive cross country for a living) and opps forgot about the gernade laucher and California law's :P so it will not work for that for me in that role :wall:
Wade
Wade, Its semi Automatic and is pretty short, plus it takes a decent round. I think that the grenade launcher wouldn't make a difference with all the goodies listed above. Just sayin'
Doug
Quote from: professor gun on July 12, 2011, 10:45:04 PM
Quote from: Dougum on July 10, 2011, 08:50:37 PM
[
Where does one find a French rifle? Just curious and possibly willing to buy one...
Doug :---
In France?
Sorry, Doug. Couldn't resist. >:D
Never fired, dropped once?
Quote from: Patent guy on July 13, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
Years ago I was a radar & communications engineer doing alot of DoD work, and I was always very impressed with Soviet solutions to technical problems, no matter how crude they may seem, initially. Their grasp of physics and their pragmatism provided some very elegant and powerful solutions to problems we struggled with, and we spent alot of your money. Sometimes we did not immediately see something they understood and had used advantageously.
Sometimes, the best solutions come when one is jailed, or is under a death threat from stalin. ~~:) Machiavelli, Casanova, Tupolev, Yakovlev, others...
Quote from: Patent guy on July 13, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
If, during the cold war, they had access to the money we spent on our systems, we might all be speaking Russian as a second language.
Socialism's silver lining--they eventually run out of money to do even more damage than they already have.
Quote from: Patent guy on July 13, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
The people I know who have faced AKs in combat sometimes wished they were carrying AKs instead of M16s.
To have an inaccurate rifle that works is better than an accurate rifle that doesn't. That said, I would prefer a G3 or M1. G3, by some accounts, was even hardier than AK.
Quote from: Patent guy on July 13, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
Just saying... I, for one, want the Soviet engineers on our side, if it comes down to it.
You did. All who could, escaped. Sikorsky, for example.
Quote from: Sly223 on July 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
The most likely round to be found any were in the world!
That's because of soviet politics--USSR gave AKs to everyone they supported for free. Not because the product was so great. Those who actually cared, paid good money for FALs and G3s.
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 14, 2011, 11:39:23 AM
Quote from: Sly223 on July 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
The most likely round to be found any were in the world!
That's because of soviet politics--USSR gave AKs to everyone they supported for free. Not because the product was so great. Those who actually cared, paid good money for FALs and G3s.
True Exept the Ak almost never needs cleaned and can run in the worst conditions on earth. It would make a perfect survival rifle not so much a riflemans rifle.
doug
Quote from: Dougum on July 14, 2011, 11:44:52 AM
Quote from: sashok.privetov on July 14, 2011, 11:39:23 AM
Quote from: Sly223 on July 14, 2011, 12:15:05 AM
The most likely round to be found any were in the world!
That's because of soviet politics--USSR gave AKs to everyone they supported for free. Not because the product was so great. Those who actually cared, paid good money for FALs and G3s.
True Exept the Ak almost never needs cleaned and can run in the worst conditions on earth. It would make a perfect survival rifle not so much a riflemans rifle.
doug
G3 is the same way--it gets dirty as hell, but that doesn't bother it. Boston T. Party wrote about that in his book. And it is a proper rifle. Not a rifleman's rifle either, as there are some problems with stock sights, and other design issues, but that is a better and *accurate* survival arm.
Romanian PSL, best of both worlds. AK reliability, M1-M14 accuracy. Only downsides I see are the 10 rd magazine, which isn't all that much of a disadvantage; and the length, which is real long. I wouldn't call it a true "sniper rifle", but it certainly is at a minimum, a very good "designated marksman" rifle, and definitely a Rifleman's rifle.
Just read a Shotgun News where Mark Krebs made an AK in 6.5 Grendel, and was able to get two MOA out to 800 yards. That, plus all the stuff I've read about 5.45x39, would to me indicate that the fault of the AK in accuracy lies not in the rifle, but in the cartridge. I have seen multiple reviews where 5.45 Century make AKs were able to hit 2-3 MOA.
This is not from any personal experience with the rifle., just what I have read in magazines and heard from people.
Quote from: Roland on July 14, 2011, 06:23:09 PM
Just read a Shotgun News where Mark Krebs made an AK in 6.5 Grendel, and was able to get two MOA out to 800 yards. That, plus all the stuff I've read about 5.45x39, would to me indicate that the fault of the AK in accuracy lies not in the rifle, but in the cartridge. I have seen multiple reviews where 5.45 Century make AKs were able to hit 2-3 MOA.
This is not from any personal experience with the rifle., just what I have read in magazines and heard from people.
Not so much the 7.62x39 but then again it is ,,,it come's down to most of the 7.62x39 is loaded with .308 bullets when what is called for is .311 bullets no wonder ppl get flyers !
If you have a rifle in this cal try some of the yugo surplus ammo thats around at this time ,,,your rifle just mifght surprise you of what it can do ( notice this ammo is corrosive clean after using).
Wade
7.62x39 AK's have gotten a bad reputation for poor accuracy for some very fixable reasons.
The rifle has a short sight radius, and this isn't good for accuracy, for most people. Inconsistent sight alignment error gets magnified by this.
Many of the so called "quality" builds that are out there actually had used, and close to worn out barrels.
The non corrosive ammo that's sold in this caliber isn't very high quality.
I own an AK, a Century WASR-10. Good barrel, and with good ammo, well within 4 MOA.
It may be possible to build the 1000 yard AK. Check out Sons of Guns next Wednesday at 9 I think. They're trying to build a 1000 yard AK. It'd be pretty fricken cool if they pull it off,
Doug :---
1000 yards is pushing it, though my WASR has been used by an Appleseeder last fall, and was getting hits at 400 and 600 yards.
I do have an "AK" that should be easily up to the task of 1000 yards, but, calling it an AK is a technicality. It is 7.62x54R, not 7.62x39; scoped (PSO clone) and long.
Quote from: Nickle on July 15, 2011, 09:59:13 AM
1000 yards is pushing it, though my WASR has been used by an Appleseeder last fall, and was getting hits at 400 and 600 yards.
I do have an "AK" that should be easily up to the task of 1000 yards, but, calling it an AK is a technicality. It is 7.62x54R, not 7.62x39; scoped (PSO clone) and long.
Also known as a PSL 54c! Nice one Nickle
Quote from: Dougum on July 15, 2011, 09:53:18 AM
It may be possible to build the 1000 yard AK. Check out Sons of Guns next Wednesday at 9 I think. They're trying to build a 1000 yard AK. It'd be pretty fricken cool if they pull it off,
Doug :---
In 7.62x39? Simply impossible. The cartridge is 72'' low at 400 yards. They must be chambering it for some other caliber.
I dont know but it'll be cool to check out,
Doug :---
PSL oh yeah Baby! O0
I love this rifle and the 7.62x54.We are well beyond 300yrds now! ..:..
Quote from: Roland on July 15, 2011, 09:09:53 PM
Quote from: Dougum on July 15, 2011, 09:53:18 AM
It may be possible to build the 1000 yard AK. Check out Sons of Guns next Wednesday at 9 I think. They're trying to build a 1000 yard AK. It'd be pretty fricken cool if they pull it off,
Doug :---
In 7.62x39? Simply impossible. The cartridge is 72'' low at 400 yards. They must be chambering it for some other caliber.
I would not be so sure about that I know one AK in 7.62x39 that has been used to hit at 750 yards (not by me I am not an AK fan),, I do know that a humble .22 can reach as far as 200 yards (done that) but it got to windy that day for me to try 300 yards ,,,do I think an AK in 7.62x39 could reach out and hit a target @1000 ,,,yes ,,do I think it would have enough left to it tooo do much more then put a hole in paper no ,,But I would still not want to be down range to try and catch the bullet to test that.
Wade
Quote from: George63 on July 14, 2011, 01:43:00 AM
the saying about french military rifles implies they could be found in very good condition "Dropped once, never fired"
Where does one find a French rifle?
according to the saying the answer would be on the ground
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