I have been reading some of the info available on KD shooting and noticed that the wind indicators are mostly for non winter. It is hard to use how the leaves or branches of a tree moves differently with no leaves on the tree. Hard to toss grass in the air and see the angle when it is under 2 feet of snow. A handkerchief falls at a different rate when it is iced up then dry. After the first toss it is going to be snow covered anyway. Lets not even talk about seeing heat radiations through a spotting scope when it is 15 degrees out.
Is there any winter wind indicators in the Appleseed tool set?
I did learn that NTCH is a good way to get frost bite on the nose if the rifle is cold enough. :wb: I looked like Rudolf for a couple days. ++)
Anybody have a trick to keep shooting glasses from frosting up?
With the Winterseeds this kind of info could be handy for the shoots.
Edit: NTCH is Nose to Charging Handle.
I believe Old Dog has recommended spitting on, then wiping lenses clean to help stop fogging. It works for me. :) Good Thread, Bob
Don't take this as a poke because of your forum name, but a 30 caliber bullet won't require quite as "sharp" an ability to gauge wind, in any season.
Not sure of the "specs" for deflection/angle vs. wind speed but some indicators could be:
smoke from a fire/chimney
blowing snow (ground snow - if its coming down and blowing you may not be able to see very far anyway)
some "grasses" will stick up through the snow if it early in the season and/or the snow isn't too deep
buy one of those little wind speed meters
From what I've learned here, a general jumping off point is:
"1 MOA per 10 MPH per 100 YDS"
So a 20 mph wind at 100 yards would be 2 MOA
but that doesn't answer your question does it?
Shooting 210 is the LEAST of being rifleman! Yes controlling your body etc is very important, but not as important as controlling and exercising your mind! What color (without looking) was your wife's/girlfriend's/bestfriend's/teacher's/random person on the street shirt today?
What make model and color of car was it that cut you off in traffic? What age group/gender was the driver?
What am I getting at here?
The Beaufort scale is a GREAT reference, but that is ALL it is. It is a starting place. Good news for us all though, the wind pretty much blows every day! That means by using the Beaufort scale, we can become proficient at gauging wind speed by practice. After a while we won't need the Beaufort Scale at all!
Happy Shooting, and if all else fails, buy an anemometer! :)
I found anemometer on sale for $30 shipped right now. An ambient Weather one with high reviews from Amazon. Might have to treat myself to a Christmas present. As long as it don't freeze up before I get a reading.
I started out shooting as a varmint hunter and the mouse gun rounds just kinda stuck with me. If I can master reading the wind with a 5.56 shooting a 7.62 in wind should be a cake walk. And you do see several AR-15's on the firing line around here.
Since a large part of the year here in Mordor, I mean Minnesota, there are not many of the regular wind indicators. Always looking for info to add to the Appleseed tool kit.
Mordor= a book called Lord of the Rings.... I think they made a movie out of it ;)
Few trees are ever completely bare of leaves.
"Powder" snow can be tossed and behaves just like dried leaf crumbs.
or you can watch the fall of ash or smoke from your cigars/cigarette, or your exhaled breath blowing away.
Carrying an anemometer gets a bit out there, next you'll be trying to strap it to an accessory rail on the AR, next thing you know, you'll start carrying the weather girl around with you ++)
Keep it simple
Mordor= a place mentioned in a book series called "Lord of the Rings
I bought one of those wind speed meters and use it to judge wind. I am getting better at feeling the wind on my face and judging the speed.
However that is at my rifle, what the wind is doing downrange is another thing, especially at distance.
Oh c'mon now. We don't live in Mordor!! !@#)
I've never seen that giant eye scanning for Frodo. But if I ever do........... :--- :--- :--- :--- :--- :--- :--- I'm ready.
I am thinking about using a anemometer when I am walking the dogs and try to read the wind speed and then see how close I am. Would make walking the dogs a mental exercise. With practice I believe it would hone myself to a point I would not need the meter.
I wonder if I can get the local weather gal to come to an Appleseed, she is a cutie :D
I try to keep the amount of stuff hanging on my rifle to a minimum, Sling and maybe an optic on a rifle or two. Not a big fan of the quad rails, either hanging onto a cheese grater or with the protectors it is like hanging on to a football. Appleseed has enlightened me to the keep it simple mindset for marksmanship.
And Sam, you put the Mordor reference the way I should of. ;) Note to self proof read a little more.
Sparks, With all the cold and snow lately we are one big eye away from being Mordor, I think I saw Frodo at Wal Mart last week.
Get used to reading wind using those rules of thumb when the indicators are more abundant, in the summer time, and then when they are not present in the winter, you will be better able to guestimate the wind speed just by how it feels on your face, how much it pushes your body, etc.
Hmm, I always thought Mordor was located on the east coast somewhere between Maryland and Virginia. You know, that town filled with crumbling imperial monuments and inhabited by hordes of orcish beasts who spend their lives plundering and pillaging?
The Giant eye isn't scanning for Frodo
It's scanning for equipment freaks, and the hangers on of kitchen sinks, toilets, xray frequency laser sights, spotlights, flashlights, pots, pans, dishes, optics suitable for lunar observation, the dreaded bipod and malefactors that think shooting is more valuable than history.
Gen, Morgan: "That gallant officer is General Fraser. I admire him, but it is necessary that he should die, do your duty."
Tim Murphy: "aye sir, and if it please ya, what be the reading on yon anemometer?"
Quote from: SamD on December 21, 2010, 08:55:13 PM
The Giant eye isn't scanning for Frodo
It's scanning for equipment freaks, and the hangers on of kitchen sinks, toilets, xray frequency laser sights, spotlights, flashlights, pots, pans, dishes, optics suitable for lunar observation, the dreaded bipod and malefactors that think shooting is more valuable than history.
Gen, Morgan: "That gallant officer is General Fraser. I admire him, but it is necessary that he should die, do your duty."
Tim Murphy: "aye sir, and if it please ya, what be the reading on yon anemometer?"
This is not my rifle for the record. I am not sure where the anemometer is on it.
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/TheRealHobie/Firearms/AR15s/overkill.jpg)
Now on a serous note, do the come ups change when when it is cold? I was not sure if my carry handle was off or the cold air was making me 1.5 moa low at 400.
Depends on a lot of factors.
Out her we have tailwinds stout enough o make you shoot low.
Really cold >Zero certainly would shoot low to a rifle sighted in at 76 deg. Maybe 3-4 MOA
40 degrees not enough to matter
Quote from: FivePoint56 on December 21, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Now on a serous note, do the come ups change when when it is cold? I was not sure if my carry handle was off or the cold air was making me 1.5 moa low at 400.
The come-ups no but your initial zero does change, which will seem to affect your come-ups.
Temperature certainly does have an effect on the round. Cold air is denser than warm air, therefore causing more drag on your bullet in flight. All other variables being equal, temperature alone as a
general rule can cause a 1 MOA shift per 20 degree Fahrenheit change from your initial zero. For example if you zeroed at 60 degrees Fahrenheit and took the rifle and shot in the same conditions but at 20 degrees Fahrenheit, you can expect about a 2 MOA shift low in your point of impact without making a sight adjustment.
The colder the air from when your initial zero, the more drag on the bullet in flight, so the lower your impact will be, so you will have to adjust your sights up. The warmer the air is from your initial zero , the less drag on your bullet in flight, so your impact will be higher, so you adjust your sights down.
The ballpark rule of thumb is 1 MOA per 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
Quote from: SamD on December 21, 2010, 08:55:13 PM
The Giant eye isn't scanning for Frodo
It's scanning for equipment freaks, and the hangers on of kitchen sinks, toilets, xray frequency laser sights, spotlights, flashlights, pots, pans, dishes, optics suitable for lunar observation, the dreaded bipod and malefactors that think shooting is more valuable than history.
Gen, Morgan: "That gallant officer is General Fraser. I admire him, but it is necessary that he should die, do your duty."
Tim Murphy: "aye sir, and if it please ya, what be the reading on yon anemometer?"
Laughing too hard to contribute any more.
Another factor in winter shooting is ammunition temperature, up here ( the western slope of the Rockies) the mercury is often below 0. Cold ammo will shoot low, so I keep it warm by carrying loose rounds, prepped clips, mags, in my pockets, until ready for use. It's one more thing to have to remember but winter slows down everything anyway. Recently re loader powders have come on the market, that are temperature insensitive, haven't tried any so I don't know wether it works or not. O0 Bob
Quote from: boltgun71 on December 21, 2010, 10:18:22 PM
Quote from: FivePoint56 on December 21, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
Now on a serous note, do the come ups change when when it is cold? I was not sure if my carry handle was off or the cold air was making me 1.5 moa low at 400.
The come-ups no but your initial zero does change, which will seem to affect your come-ups.
Temperature certainly does have an effect on the round. Cold air is denser than warm air, therefore causing more drag on your bullet in flight. All other variables being equal, temperature alone as a general rule can cause a 1 MOA shift per 20 degree Fahrenheit change from your initial zero. For example if you zeroed at 60 degrees Fahrenheit and took the rifle and shot in the same conditions but at 20 degrees Fahrenheit, you can expect about a 2 MOA shift low in your point of impact without making a sight adjustment.
The colder the air from when your initial zero, the more drag on the bullet in flight, so the lower your impact will be, so you will have to adjust your sights up. The warmer the air is from your initial zero , the less drag on your bullet in flight, so your impact will be higher, so you adjust your sights down. The ballpark rule of thumb is 1 MOA per 20 degrees Fahrenheit.
Knowing the exact wind speed and temperature is great as well as having time to calculate out exactly how much to change your bullet drop, dial corrections for windage in and all that BUT the better method to practice is the Rifleman's dance. I honestly cannot feel the difference between 0F and 20F. Their both colder than heck to me. And that wind sure makes it feel colder than it really is! But what I can do is call the shot, see where the bullet splash or hit was and adjust my sight picture. Dance with them targets! O0
It's also a good idea afterward to make a note on your range data card "At 300 yds at 20F shoots X-moa low shooting xyz ammo" or what have you. If you know the temp of course...
Online ballistic calculators such as the one on handloads .com will give trajectory information adjustable for temp, humidity, elevation etc. the main factor is when air density increases drag and drop also increase
I should bust out my old graphing calulator... Write myself up a ballistics program.
(If only I had thought of that back when I knew how to use it.)
Summer or winter the wind on your face indicates the wind that will mostly effect your bullets path. Watching leafs, bushes, clouds in the sky are fine and might give you some info about the wind.
What you always have to think about is the wind where YOUR BULLET IS FLYING through.
The best indication of this is the wind on your face and the mirage seen through your spotting scope on a target range. If you are not on a target range and you have to make a shot you will only have the wind on your face. Believe me, it is good enough. If you are sensitive to it.
Two drops of dish soap on a paper towel wiped on both sides of your glasses will keep them from fogging.