I was helping a friend zero his rifle over the weekend in preparation for an upcoming appleseed. He had a Charles Daly scope, don't remember the power. His scope didn't list the moa per turn much like many other scopes I have seen before. However, his adjustment dial on the elevation setting was numbered 1 to 14 in a full rotation and 1 to 7 on his windage dial.
So my question is what exactly do these mean and can you tell a scopes moa adjustment based on these numbers? His scope did not have a mil-dot reticle so I assumed this had nothing to do with mil-dot. Any thoughts and answers are appreciated. I am sure I will face this again at future shoots.
I have no experience with a Charles Daly scope like you described.
Is 14 the number of clicks, or just the number of marks graduated on the knob?
You could (if your friend shoots nice groups) shoot a group at 25 meters/yds., crank the elevation knob up a number of clicks (right the number down or remember them - if there are more clicks than numbers go up 32 clicks) and shoot another group and measure the distance between the two groups.
At 25 yds/meters here are some examples of what you should see (clicks of elevation vs. change in group position)
1 click = 1/4" at 100 yds. 16 clicks would move the group 4 MOA (or 1") at 25 yds or 32 clicks would move it 8 MOA (or 2") at 25 yds.
1 click = 1/3" at 100 yds. 12 clicks would move the group 4 MOA (or 1") at 25 yds or 24 clicks would move it 8 MOA (or 2") at 25 yds.
1 click = 1/2" at 100 yds. 8 clicks would move the group 4 MOA (or 1") at 25 yds. or 16 clicks would move it 8 MOA (or 2") at 25 yds.
Hope this helps (it is an excuse to go back to the range :))
if there are no clicks, just marks 1 MOA per mark is the most common, for half or quarter just stop in the middle
Hey guys thanks for the help. The Charles daly scope was a new one for me as well. I know that they make some fine shotguns but I have never came across one of their scopes. I am now further intrigued by this and will have to look at it closer the next time I see him. We were shooting off a rest because we were working on his scope instead of his skills( he's going to learn that soon). He was getting good groups. So I showed him what moa is and put some IMC into practice. I based his adjustments assuming his scope was 1/4 moa at 100 yards. 1/4 moa per click worked for his elevation but it turned out that his windage was 1/2 moa per click. Like I said it's a weird scope. Once we got his rifle zeroed he asked me "so what do these numbers mean on the knob?". BTW these are numbers graduated on the knob. Being someone who has been shooting since the age of five and an IIT2 in the program I hated to tell him I don't know. I guess at future Ad's I can figure out what the adjustment is on a shooters scope if it's unknown by using IMC based on their group. I was just trying to prep myself in case I was ever asked again " hey, what do these numbers mean". I know I am always going to be faced with new challenges when dealing with every rifle/scope ever made. I just like to keep answers for the shooters in my bag of tricks. I think it builds confidence with the shooter when he/she asks a question and an instructor can give them an immediate answer.
Quote from: GarandFan on November 11, 2010, 06:54:27 AMhe asked me "so what do these numbers mean on the knob?". BTW these are numbers graduated on the knob. Being someone who has been shooting since the age of five and an IIT2 in the program I hated to tell him I don't know. I guess at future Ad's I can figure out what the adjustment is on a shooters scope if it's unknown by using IMC based on their group. I was just trying to prep myself in case I was ever asked again " hey, what do these numbers mean". I know I am always going to be faced with new challenges when dealing with every rifle/scope ever made. I just like to keep answers for the shooters in my bag of tricks. I think it builds confidence with the shooter when he/she asks a question and an instructor can give them an immediate answer.
GarandFan,
NEVER be afraid to admit you don't know something! Just do it confidently. Remember, ignorance just means you don't know, not that you're stupid.
Try this on for size: "I don't know. Let's shoot a couple of sighter groups and find out!"
See? I'd have more confidence in someone who gave me that answer than in someone who tried to BS me. That answer shows you have full confidence that you CAN figure it out - and it'll show to the shooter. (it also puts some pressure on the shooter to shoot tight groups, but hey... isn't that what we're there for? >:D) Oh, and it is also a GREAT opportunity to reinforce IMC to the shooter, too. Come to think of it, it also teaches the SHOOTER how to figure this stuff out by himself in the future, too. sounds like a win-win scenario to me.
Does this help you a bit?
"Come to think of it, it also teaches the SHOOTER how to figure this stuff out by himself in the future, too."
Amen to that! I follow questions with questions to lead them to find their own answer! :)...O.L.
Hey thanks Dwarven 1. Yes that does help. I have to admit though that I'm still curious about the numbers. The manufacture put them there for a reason. I just don't know the reason. I'm gonna work on this the next time we go shooting. It's easy to say that they are just reference points but his elevation and windage are numbered different. Somehow these have to correspond to minutes per click on the scope.
Quote from: GarandFan on November 12, 2010, 04:33:30 AMSomehow these have to correspond to minutes per click on the scope.
Heh. You don't want to put any money on that, do you? >:D
I've not seen a Charles Daly scope, but I've tinkered with a lot of cheap scopes over the years and I would not bet that the marks have anything to do with MOA--just reference marks to move the dial around.
I came across a very nice Nikon about a month ago that was marked inside the caps as "1/4 inch". I don't recall how far we needed to move a group, but when we did, it was double of what it should be. The scope was marked "1/4 inch", but it was making 1/2 inch adjustments. Another good exampe as to why folks need to shoot their rifles and get their data from it.
Did Bushnell make Charles Daly Rifle Scope?