Which one do you have and what do you think about it. :sos:
Can it be used in Appleseed?
Can it be used to train for an Appleseed?
PS lets keep this a cost benefit discussion so keep it under $200 :)
NO AIR SOFT >:(
VA Shooter is very knowledgeable in this area .......as in just about everything that has to do with shooting :cool2:
perhaps pm him?
pb
Looking into one too. For backyard practice.
The challenge is the cheap vs. accurate trade off. You can find cheap semi-autos for under a $100. But after looking at them I suspect that they are Minute of Soda Can Accurate.
Or you can spend as much on an air rifle as you do on an LTR. This will probably lead you into the break barrel single shot class. You can get decent sights or mount a scope. These would be accurate enough at 25 yards. Some will launch a pellet 1200 plus FPS. But you will never be able to complete the 2nd and 3rd stage of the AQT in a timely fashion.
You can also go wild with air guns that cost as much as real guns. But I've never been able to convince myself that those dollars couldn't have been better spent on other things.
I have not found the right mixture of cheap accurate and fast. An air powered LTR would be helpful for many folks.
Here is a website that Air rifle's from cheap bb guns to .50 cal. Yes I said .50 cal. Think Black powder air rifle.
http://www.pyramydair.com/ (http://www.pyramydair.com/)
For inexpensive 10 meter practice, suggest Daisy 853, available from CMP for $212. C model has 5 round magazine, but since underlever charging, still single shot...still useful for practice, AND comes with sling, swivels, and reasonable, if plastic, peep rear sights with a number of interchangeable front inserts. Would have to adjust timed stages because of single cocking issue, and positions would have to be examined with the necessity of cocking rifle between shots...but an (air) rifleman persists...another benefit is practice anywhere, indoors or out, a safe backstop (newspaper-filled cartons, e.g.) can be set up (rifle rated @ 545 fps).
CMP used to GIVE this model Daisy to affiliated clubs; my school used them for ALL gym classes from 6th through 12th grade (found some great prospects for Varsity team I coached), and if those students couldn't destroy them, no one can (there's also an excellent Daisy 853 Maintenance tape available). CMP still sells pellets to clubs, and pellets remain extremely cheap in comparison to cartridges...
10 meter reduced targets exist around here; were sent me by Ed/B9...
Excelsior,
madMark
Check out "Did you say a 15 yard Appleseed?? at http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=lq5iqhcu88lbpl2rodp0gifii5&topic=12244.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=lq5iqhcu88lbpl2rodp0gifii5&topic=12244.0). AS had a 15 yard COF at one time, so the remainders the info should be somewhere within the OLD threads, prob some good Air Rifled recommendations.
Depending on what you want to do 'pest control' or just trigger time, the electric (battery) powered Air Soft Rifles may work. They can get pricey quickly.
Tom
I've toyed a bit with the idea of using a Crosman 1077 as an LTR, motivation being NYS law - allowing to accommodate younger shooters.
This is CO2 powered and available with an 88gr cylinder that lasts a lot longer than the 12gr powerlets and seems to provide a more steady stream of Co2 pressure, keeping shot to shot a bit more accurate. The downside is the 88gr makes the rifle a lot heavier.
It has a 12 rd rotary "clip" that fits in a magazine and the magazine inserted into the gun.
The action is "semi-automatic" but not in the legal definition. The rotary clip is moved from position to position as you squeeze the trigger back.
This leads to two thing; first, the trigger pull is ugly, (but hey - if you can shoot with a ruger law-department trigger pull, you can shoot with this.) Second, if you half-squeeze the trigger then release, the next time you squeeze you rotate the clip again, skipping over a pellet.
Because of the design, I haven't really found an ideal way of attaching a sling. The forearm area of the stock is thin; I've been using a loop around the barrel shroud as the front attachment. As the barrel is within the shroud, the sling doesn't seem to impact performance.
There is substantial information on the web about accurizing these.
In my playing research I found a weakness in wind sensitivity even with low speed wind. I'm not sure if pellet selection would help, but I suspect it's really related to mass.
The NY Gun Laws mimic a lot of organizations in what type of propellant is doable by certain age groups. This makes one wonder if Legislators should take annual Reality & Cognition Tests o remain in office, but I digress.
I've looked into AirSoft out here, and it looks viable for outdoors use to 25 yards in a fairly stiff breeze. The new rifles can get pricey, but their accuracy is better than decent; they are the electric powered (Li Ion or Ni Cad) battery packs as budgets allow. The projectiles are round, can be recovered and re-used. There are Green Gas variants that 'cycle' the actions and mimic recoil. Could AirSoft be an option"
Tom
DR,
Used to use CMP/free Daisy 853s for gym classes; have cheap, decent, plastic peep sights, sling studs and nylon slings included, and 5 shot "clips."
The bad news is that they're single pump air rifles, necessitating breaking position for every single shot...however, excellent to practice the basics of position and SHFs...just not timed anything...
There's also a great VHS tape( aned perhaps, now, a DVD) illustrating all potential maintenance on the Daisy, step-by-step. And Daisy still supports clubs with various club-in-a-box offers...FYI, CMP offers 853s for $212 ea (charged us $45 ea. to buy the 18 they'd sent us...step up from there is Feinwerkbau single pump target air rifle (predated the compressed air cylinder) or RWS Model 54 (still single shot)...
Most economical method of practicing marksmanship skills there is...
Excelsior,.
madMark
I've had a Chinese break action (Spring powered) air rifle for almost 20 years. The stock is rougher than a Russian trainer, but it shoots well.
How could we use such a rifle (or the Daisy 853)? I can think of several ways.
1. First shot downrange exercises. Thye can provide a tool (which may be used indoors) to practice achieving position, NPOA and making the first shot. I actually consider the breaking of NPOA to operate the action to be a positive. It teaches one to quickly re-attain NPOA.
2. They can be a valuable addition to RF/CF live fire and dryfire. The more one shoots and practices what we teach, the better one will shoot. Case in point, Follow through. Due to their low velocities, air rifles require extremely good follow through to shoot well.
3. Usefulness in non-AS shooting disciplines. Anything that we can do to get more kids shooting ultimately helps our cause.
I would second the recommendation to PM VAshooter.
You shouldn't go to too much expense to try to find an air rifle that is suitable for shooting the QDAQT. It is good enough to have something that you can practice on inch squares in your back yard or garage, and maybe work on the fundamentals with students off the range... especially younger students. As long as it can shoot a 4 MOA group and has decent sights and provision for mounting a sling, it will work just fine. Rate of fire doesn't matter -- as has been said, breaking position is good practice for NPOA.
Those lever-action Daisies from CMP sound like the best deal going. Adjustable aperture sights and everything.
I have thought about getting one to practice in my basement, but I'm not sure how practical it would be.
Any Trigger Time is not wasted as it makes one focus on:
Quote1. First shot downrange exercises. They can provide a tool (which may be used indoors) to practice achieving position, NPOA and making the first shot. I actually consider the breaking of NPOA to operate the action to be a positive. It teaches one to quickly re-attain NPOA.
2. They can be a valuable addition to RF/CF live fire and dryfire. The more one shoots and practices what we teach, the better one will shoot. Case in point, Follow through. Due to their low velocities, air rifles require extremely good follow through to shoot well.
3. Usefulness in non-AS shooting disciplines. Anything that we can do to get more kids shooting ultimately helps our cause. THX, jimdavis
Making a trap for indoor use can be found at http://www.instructables.com/ (http://www.instructables.com/) or http://blog.makezine.com (http://blog.makezine.com), then type in air rifle traps or any variant of the trap type you want, and you will get more info than dreamed existed.
I am not associated with either site in any way what so ever. I am recommending them on their own merits.
Tom
I think Air Rifles are a great way to practice marksmanship! I own an IZH 61 repeater rifle. Costs about $100.00 and has a 2 five shot removable clips. It has the same accuracy as any olympic style airgun I've ever seen. I know all the stuff I did with that rifle over the summer did a lot for my shooting. Almost everyday during summer break (I am 14) I would wake up and go to my homemade 12.5yd range in my backyard and shoot about 50 rounds of cheap Crosman Pellets. I think airguns are nice because most of the time they can be fired in someones backyard or anywhere with about 10yds of space. No noise, and the pellets are cheap! If you want to shoot better I highly recommend purchasing an IZH 61 .177 caliber rifle and just put a few thousand rounds through it.
Blake
ksuguy,
I shoot an air rifle in my basement all winter long. I use a box filled with cardboard layers as the stop, and shoot the crosman 1077 from 25-30'. I've been eying break-action springers as well.
I also shoot an airsoft pistol (UHC 1911 - excellent for $20, though I had to grow the front sight.)
Practice is practice. You get everything except the noise and that wonderful smell of gunpowder.
Folks,
CMP selling Daisy 853s for $212...about $70 less than retail (though your mileage may vary, and someone might find one out there for less) and pellets incredibly cheap compared to ANY ammunition...the 853C model comes w. 5-shot, self-indexing, horizontal magazine (still have to pump for every shot) or single shot insert that substitutes for the magazine, esp. for new shooters (or gym class personnel, 6th - 12th grade! If they couldn't kill those rifles, NO
ONE can...).
Also have VHS tape (perhaps now a DVD - contact Daisy, which has instructor pricing) explaining step-by-step
maintenance and replacement of seals...can duplicate the tape...
Now if I could just find a single-pump, non-compressed air reservoir Feinwerkbau 600 air rifle...
B9 has supplied links to 10 meter targets...
Excelsior,
madMark