I was out shooting my Mosin this last weekend: call it blasphemy, call it what you will, with the cost of ammo for it being about 1/4 of the cost of .308, I shoot it more.
Set up some concrete bricks from Home Depot at about 175-200 yards. They were 6x6x16's, with an "upper" and a "lower" section to them. Cinder blocks for building walls.
I popped at them with my .22 (sighted in for 25 yards and the AQT), and I found that stingers only need about 6" of holdover from my 25 yard zero to connect very reliably. Bulk Federal bricks needed about 12" of holdover. The little .22 rounds chipped dime sized flakes off the orange-spraypainted face of the cinder blocks. Lots of fun.
My buddy fired up his AR, and the .223 round started taking golf ball sized chunks out of the front of the cinder blocks, occasionally punching through the back as well.
Then I fired up the Mosin, and each round shattered half of the cinder block. I love .30 calibers. ;D
After we had fun with a bunch of blocks at 175-200 yards, we put up some Redcoat targets. My buddies hadn't ever done an Appleseed before, but I was impressed by how they did. They are shooters. A bit more practice at this type of target and the Redcoat target will be old-hat to them; they were having an easy time with the target to 300 yards, only sometimes missing the 400 and headshot.
Question, though: I ran the Redcoat with my Mosin. Around round 8 or 9, the heat mirage really became BAD. What can help with heat mirage? I have a couple ideas, tell me if they would do any good.
1. Mojo Peep Sight: I suspect that this would give me "tunnel vision" on my sighting channel. Right now I only have the standard rear sight, and the heat just washes up and over the sights, making the target over the front post appear to be swimming in water. I tend to start shooting up and to the right (I'm a southpaw if that helps) when the mirage gets bad. I put two of my shots about 3/4 of an inch above/right to the 400 yard target, touching holes; I don't think it's technique or shot inconsistency. The third shot hit because my friend told me that I was missing high and right, so I adjusted just a hair down into that heat mirage.
2. Replacement stock: A synthetic replacement stock would not have the top barrel shroud, right (Like the ATI one)? The barrel would have more air flow and would dissipate heat better.
Are there any shooting techniques that can help with heat mirage? I notice I start to shoot a bit higher as the image swims. Anything else I should know?
I'm not sure lack of a handguard would solve your problem. My M1A has one of those (neat looking) vented handguards. Most folks say the military went to the solid handguards due to the heat off the barrel (with the vented ones) causing the very problem you describe. Last summer (for the first time ever) I noticed mirage affecting my sight picture through my scope during a pop up session at Ramseur. I've never had an issue on AQT's but pop ups are a little different.
If you think no handguard might help why not remove your handguards and give it a try shooting the same course of fire (before you go buy another stock).
I put about sixty rounds through the Mosin; it got really hot. I couldn't hold the rifle forward of the receiver even with the wooden handguard over the barrel. Too hot.
I'd shoot 5-10 rounds at a time and let it cool for five minutes. Each time, after about six or eight shots, the mirage would get bad. Thirteen rounds and it gets REALLY bad.
I'm not sure if I can reassemble the rifle without the handguard. I'll look at that tonight. Not sure how well secured it would be.
I'm sure if you shot in the snow you wouldn't have that problem ;D you might try the synthetic stock with out a shroud and see if that helps.
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on December 17, 2007, 12:43:36 PM
Question, though: I ran the Redcoat with my Mosin. Around round 8 or 9, the heat mirage really became BAD. What can help with heat mirage? I have a couple ideas, tell me if they would do any good.
1. Mojo Peep Sight: I suspect that this would give me "tunnel vision" on my sighting channel. Right now I only have the standard rear sight, and the heat just washes up and over the sights, making the target over the front post appear to be swimming in water. I tend to start shooting up and to the right (I'm a southpaw if that helps) when the mirage gets bad. I put two of my shots about 3/4 of an inch above/right to the 400 yard target, touching holes; I don't think it's technique or shot inconsistency. The third shot hit because my friend told me that I was missing high and right, so I adjusted just a hair down into that heat mirage.
I haven't noticed heat mirage using Mojo sights on an M44, but if you go this route, keep in mind that the silhouette of the round front sight protector on a Mosin Nagant interferes with your sight picture through the rear Mojo peep sight (Which circle is which?). You will either need to "white-out" the silhouette of the front sight protector or modifiy it by cutting it into wings as it is difficult to naturally center the post consistently
(for me) otherwise. Additionally, the standard MN front post really is too wide for precision work on stage-four AQT targets. YMMV
Edited to add:
(for me)
Quote from: wcmartin1 on December 17, 2007, 02:57:15 PM
I haven't noticed heat mirage using Mojo sights on an M44, but if you go this route, keep in mind that the silhouette of the round front sight protector on a Mosin Nagant interferes with your sight picture through the rear Mojo peep sight (Which circle is which?). You will either need to "white-out" the silhouette of the front sight protector or modifiy it by cutting it into wings as it is difficult to naturally center the post consistently otherwise. Additionally, the standard MN front post really is too wide for precision work on stage-four AQT targets. YMMV
MMDV (My Mileage Does Vary). :)
On my M91/59 with Mojo (same sight radius as M44) I just make the two rings line up (essentially concentric). No problems. Just look through the rear sight, line up the circles, focus on the front sight blade like you are supposed to, and things are fine.
Yeah, the MN post front sight is a bit course for "precision" work. If you use the 2 MOA hold with a six o'clock position on stage four you'll be OK (that tiny bit of white between the front sight and the target is critical).
The ATI stocks are OK, but nothing great. Still generally a big improvement over the issue stocks, IMHO.
Don't discount these rifles. Also, for a quick fix to your mirage issue, try blowing air along the top of your barrel just before you take the shot. It ain't great and only helps for a couple of seconds, but physics dictate that shooting fast generates heat.
Don't know what your rifle looks like (but if it looks like most of 'em you can't hurt it much) so what about the idea of taking a washrag or dishtowel and wetting it, wringing most of the water out of it and laying it across the top of your barrel. It shouldn't interfere with your sight picture. Sounds like the barrel is getting warm enough to evaporate the water. Don't know if the moisture would make it worse or not as I've never tried it.
As to Atlas's post: I agree that you should simply align the front and rear sight rings for the Mojo. I did this with the tech sights on the SKS, adjusting the front post and rear sight to place the shot where it belongs and this makes for an incredibly fast target acquisition because your eye just naturally wants to align those two circles!
As to mirage.....I think it is just a fact of shooting fast strings. But I know that the benchrest fellows back home like to glue a series of velcro patches down the length of the barrel and corresponding patches on a length of a flat plastic thingy about 2 inches wide, which is then stuck on the barrel, slightly elevated, forcing the mirage to the sides of the line of sight. Might just work, but it'd be tough to use in the field! :D
I guess when the hordes of Kaizerkinder or Nazis were surging towards the Ruskies, mirage wasn't that big a deal. When those cinder blocks attack, it's a different story though. JB
Quote from: Junior Birdman on December 18, 2007, 12:07:14 PM
As to Atlas's post: I agree that you should simply align the front and rear sight rings for the Mojo. I did this with the tech sights on the SKS, adjusting the front post and rear sight to place the shot where it belongs and this makes for an incredibly fast target acquisition because your eye just naturally wants to align those two circles!
I'm glad you two don't have the problem I do with the front sight protector on a MN when using Mojo sights, but on my rifle the relationship with the two circles and the post are not in correct alignment (or maybe I'm not ;D) as I cannot consistently and naturally center the post as I can with other peep sights. However, I did overcome this problem with white paint on the silhouette edge of the front protector. I still may modify it by cutting it into more traditional wings like my M1A just for fun.
I have two of these rifles. One of them is my truck gun (with issue sights) and the other one I put the Mojo on. Both of these cost me less than $60 each, ammo is cheap, they're accurate, fun to shoot and reload for. A little WECSOG can't hurt nothin'.
As far as heat mirage from the barrel - I haven't noticed any with either rifle (and when I shoot 'em, I shoot the hell out of 'em), but it's usually fairly warm down here and any mirage is downrange.