Just came into a large batch of the late "Silent Slings" with 11/4 straps and plastic buckles.
Are these used by any of the services as a shooting sling? I can see them used as a "Hasty Sling" but don't see how they could be used in a loop sling.
Seems they would be very hard to adjust if you could.
Thanks
Ken
Those are the current issue sling for the M16A2.
Many of the troops replace them when going overseas with commercial "tactical" slings.
I have a hard time accepting plastic in the field, as it is easier to break, as opposed to metal which can be bent back into shape and still funtion. For example, the MOLLE rucksack frame and the ACH(new kevlar helmet) buckles. I have seen many of these plastic parts snap and fail, including my own. However, if you like them prepare to carry extra in case of breakage. These two mentioned items are supplied with a bag full of replacement parts, however Murphy goes for the items you don't have first, like the sewn in buckles.
YMMV, Just my personal opinion.
Yeah they are issue. Almost nobody actually uses them though. Even my wife took hers off and put a quality 3point in its place.
I prefer a GOOD 2 point but thats just me.
Speaking of slings, anyone used the Ching sling on an M1 or M1A? Seems like it would be a benefit.
SoM
Quote from: SGTCap on December 08, 2007, 05:38:34 PM
Yeah they are issue. Almost nobody actually uses them though. Even my wife took hers off and put a quality 3point in its place.
I prefer a GOOD 2 point but thats just me.
That makes 2 of us. I keep an old Nylon "Web type" sling (green, also referred to as an M14 sling) around just in case I come up for a deployment.
Fred and I had quite the discussion on them until I finally convinced him they really were the "Original" M16 & M16A1 sling.
No one answered my question ???
I know they were issue slings.
I know most didn't like them.
The question I asked was " Do any of the services teach the use of them as a SHOOTING SLING?????
I can see them used as a Hasty sling but not anything else as the adjustments would be too hard to do.
OK, Ken to get in deeper detail for you.
First off, the Army doesn't teach the use of the sling anymore, haven't for ages now, long before this sling appeared.
The Marksmanship Sections don't use this sling. My state's team has squirreled away some of the older nylon slings I mentioned, and they've used those.
Most of those using slings (Army) are using the Hasty sling anyways.
Now, the Marines do some different things, and you would have to ask somebody that's served in the Corps about that. The guy that runs Northeastshooters.com Forum (Derek, also known as Sgt Hoskins on Arfcom) would be the best source for that info. He was a Marksmanship Instructor in the Marine Corps for a while.
Yes, I've tried to get him on board the Appleseed Program, and haven't quit trying to get him.
Quote from: Son of Martha on December 08, 2007, 09:37:06 PM
Speaking of slings, anyone used the Ching sling on an M1 or M1A? Seems like it would be a benefit.
SoM
Yep. Got one on an M1 Garand. It works pretty well under most conditions - particularly well when moving and quickly acquiring a firing position. IIRC I wrote about it to a degree in my Ching Sling post on the old site....no time now to go research it.
It's a bit trickier on the M14, but can be done. Gotta deal with the box mag sticking out.....
I could be wrong, but here's my take on it:
The GI web sling we all know (and love) is a WW2 design that carried over to the M14 (I never saw a nylon one in the Army, all ours were still cotton). The M16 came along and the same technique did not work for it (you can bend that skinny barrel by falling on it or twisting it with the bayonet in something solid) and the sling fell for shooting support fell out of favor. The WW2 style slings have the metal clips that clack, smack and rattle unless taped down and once your tape it how to you quckly adjust it for use. I haven't laid eyes on the slings Ken describes but they sound like the "silent slings" developed and issued for M16's to allow their use in carrying the M16 rather than as use in additional support in the firing positions.
Of course, I could be wrong.
I can state for FACT that the "silent sling" for the M16 rifle didn't exist in military usage until the M16A2 was adopted.
On the M16A1's that I was issued from Boot Camp until the M16A2 was adopted, I always had a nylon web-type sling on it. The origin of that sling was FOR the M16A1. That's why it's longer than the cotton web sling. Many of those slings ended up on M14's, because they were better than the cotton web sling.
Can anyone point me towards a site that explains the different types of rifle slings? I hear types mentioned here and other places but can't find a good source for explanations, preferably with pictures. I tried Google but didn't find anything in the first few pages for the different versions I listed in the Search window.
Steelheart
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=334.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=334.0)
Right here on this very website.
Use the search function, it will find this stuff much faster for you.
There's also the hasty sling. Like the web and loop sling methods, but you don't take the sling loose from the rear swivel.
Heck, it's even simpler than that (apologies to Nickle, for saying it!).
If you want to be a rifleman, all you'll need is a GI web or nylon sling - the same design, simply different materials...
You don't have to even know what any other sling looks like... ;D
In the early 90's, as a non-combat sailor receiving a crash course in zeroing an M16 from our Marine Corps Gunny "advisor," I was taught to use the piece-of-junk-plastic-buckle sling in the Hasty Sling mode. it wasn't good for much else besides carrying the rifle.
Swampfox
The Army M16 operator's manual describes the sling as a shoulder carrying device. No mention is made of using it to shoot with that I saw. The M16s and M16A1's had pretty skinny barrels. Easy to bend with a little too much sling pressure.
Are heavy barrel's AR's more resistant to the sling bending or is it more of a rifle design issue?
Steelheart
Quote from: Steelheart on December 13, 2007, 05:31:08 AM
Are heavy barrel's AR's more resistant to the sling bending or is it more of a rifle design issue?
Steelheart
Yes, they are. But, a free-floating fore end makes barrel bending from the sling a non-issue.
The problem stems from the front sling swivel being attached to the front sight (part of the barrel).
Even if you just move the swivel to the fore end, it still bends the barrel, because the for end is attached to the barrel.
The free-floating for end is NOT attached to the barrel (other than the back, and that amounts to nothing), and if the sling is attached to that, no problem.
The bottom line is simple. IF you don't use excessive sling tension, sling usage with a regular AR doesn't significantly affect accuracy. A match gun and ammo with a match shooter will see a difference. The rest of us won't see enough difference to matter, as long as we don't sling up excessively tight.
When I was in the Marines we had the M16A1. Initially we had the cotton web slings or nylon slings with the buckles (M14 style). We used slings all the time for qualification. We sewed a button on our shooting jacket sleeve to keep the sling from slipping down. Much later they gave us jungle slings which are the same the black slings that come with most of the A/R's today. Many of the guys would never used the jungle slings as they felt the rifle should be in your hands not slung over your back. I did use the jungle sling which I wrapped around my left wrist to keep my hand from slipping when it was wet or muddy. This worked well for the short ranges we normally shot at. When we went to the rifle range for qualification after the jungle slings came out they would give us the old web slings with the buckle. When we were done qualifing we had to turn in the web sling. The web sling with the buckle is the way to go. I think that they are back in production for the military.
I bought my Grandson the "Marine Marksmanship" vid and it is pretty good.
The Instructors teach the web sling looped up in basic marksmanship on the KD ranges. Later in the vid they teach using it as a hasty sling telling the recuits that it takes too long to get into a loop sling.
Proper sling use for a 1907 style sling (first two attachments) and web sling usage (last attachment) attached.