Are there any comments/experiences good, bad or otherwise regarding the 80% completed AR-15 lower receivers that are currently available for purchase without an FFL required? I have been considering trying to finish one as a side project and I would appreciate any input you may have. I have seen the jigs that are available to allow you to use a standard drillpress to finish the milling process. Pretty interesting idea to say the least. Thanks for your input, Reveille.
I note that on AR15.com someone managed to finish an 80% lower using a drill press, a dremel and lots of patience. The pin holes were not exact, but apparently there were close enough! Can't find the original link to the discussion...
I also note that Aim Surplus is selling Spikes Tactical stripped lowers for $70.
But from what I recall the guy posting said he was able to use his drill press to drill several holes for hogging out the trigger well, starting with small bits to larger bits by basically making his own template. Then used different carbide bits on a dremel to finish shaping the trigger well. Holes for the trigger pins and reciever pins were drilled by using an existing receiver as a template. Buffer tube was already drilled and tapped.
There is also this guy who built a "ghetto" 80% using several shortcuts including jbweld.
http://mujahadeenar15a2.tripod.com/
Enjoy.
edit: this might also help
http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin/ib3/iB_html/uploads/post-72-85412-Build_KT15_By_Secret_Gunsmith.pdf
Thanks for the thoughts. An AR without a serial number that is legal......What more could you want?
I've thought about doing this, but haven't. I'd like to watch somebody do it first. The link to the pdf is great, maybe I can do it after all. Post back if you actually do it!
When I can get a 100% lower from LRB for $63 delivered I see no reason to buy an 80% lower.
If you just want to do one to say you did it, go for it.
Aside from being able to say you did it, there is much less paperwork involved with doing it yourself. That seems to be the main attraction for a lot of people. It keeps the government out of what should be a private transaction to begin with.
www.ktordnance.com for an example.
I think ktordnance actually does 60% finished, instead of 80%, due to legal issues concerning when it becomes a firearm. They do it 60% to stay on the safe side. -Cheeks
Quote from: mtmisfit on May 26, 2010, 10:29:22 PM
When I can get a 100% lower from LRB for $63 delivered I see no reason to buy an 80% lower.
If you just want to do one to say you did it, go for it.
LRB M1As are awesome. I couldn't be happier with mine. Based on that experience, I bought 3 LRB AR lowers and would not recommend them. The ones I got from them have magwells so tight that no mags drop free, and Magpul mags can't be inserted. USGI mags work, but are really tight. I got mine in 2006, it is possible they have improved since then.
Quote from: Reveille on May 25, 2010, 07:37:29 PM
Are there any comments/experiences good, bad or otherwise regarding the 80% completed AR-15 lower receivers that are currently available for purchase without an FFL required? I have been considering trying to finish one as a side project and I would appreciate any input you may have. I have seen the jigs that are available to allow you to use a standard drillpress to finish the milling process. Pretty interesting idea to say the least. Thanks for your input, Reveille.
Yeah those work good here: http://www.cncguns.com/tooling.html
From what I have read, the anodizing does strengthen the holes to some degree. But I have seen people not anodize before. Of course, if you want it to be durable and last, it is probably the best way to go.
Having a lower that is not traceable by the government is golden. Especially in this state.
I am not 100% sure here....but I believe BEFORE you complete that 80% receiver, you need to file a Form 1 with the ATF, requesting to build a firearm. You cannot complete it until you have the form in hand. Further, there are regs as to what must be imprinted on said receiver, how deep they must be, and what serial number.
Having an AR w/o a serial number is an invite to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any gun built after 1968? w/o a serial number is also an invite.
As stated, you can get 'em cheap enough. Rev, PM me if you want a LRB lower.
If you want to go thru the Fed red tape to say you built your own AR.......Cool :cool2: Just follow the Regs !!!
My 2 cents here boys.......DON'T. That cell a'int got the square footage you are used to.
EEL
Now that is the type of info I was fishing for. O0 Steel bars don't sound too inviting. @) Thanks EEL.
Quote from: EEL on May 27, 2010, 01:11:55 AM
I am not 100% sure here....but I believe BEFORE you complete that 80% receiver, you need to file a Form 1 with the ATF, requesting to build a firearm. You cannot complete it until you have the form in hand. Further, there are regs as to what must be imprinted on said receiver, how deep they must be, and what serial number.
Having an AR w/o a serial number is an invite to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any gun built after 1968? w/o a serial number is also an invite.
As stated, you can get 'em cheap enough. Rev, PM me if you want a LRB lower.
If you want to go thru the Fed red tape to say you built your own AR.......Cool :cool2: Just follow the Regs !!!
My 2 cents here boys.......DON'T. That cell a'int got the square footage you are used to.
EEL
EEL,
You are not required to have an SN for any non-NFA firearm built for your
personal use. A Form 1 is only required for an NFA item.
As for paperwork on buying an AR....I fill out a 4473 and present my CCW permit. No phone call, paperwork stays with the FFL.
Haven't had a problem with the LRB's we got a few weeks ago, I have all GI mags though.
Quote from: EEL on May 27, 2010, 01:11:55 AM
I am not 100% sure here....but I believe BEFORE you complete that 80% receiver, you need to file a Form 1 with the ATF, requesting to build a firearm. You cannot complete it until you have the form in hand. Further, there are regs as to what must be imprinted on said receiver, how deep they must be, and what serial number.
Having an AR w/o a serial number is an invite to jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having any gun built after 1968? w/o a serial number is also an invite.
As stated, you can get 'em cheap enough. Rev, PM me if you want a LRB lower.
If you want to go thru the Fed red tape to say you built your own AR.......Cool :cool2: Just follow the Regs !!!
My 2 cents here boys.......DON'T. That cell a'int got the square footage you are used to.
EEL
I do not know about your state laws, but even in the most restricted state, CA. Fed law does not require any paper work be filled out wen building a 80% lower. With that in mind, remember the following.
1. It is not required that you put the build location or a serial number on a firearm that you build at home.
2. You can not build a firearm at home with the intent to immediately sell it.
3. Prudence may dictate that you do want to place a serial number on the firearm as LEOs may not understand and think that you have obliterated a serial number which is illegal under both Federal and California law. I recommend your initials and a number - something like Redwood City, CA - GH-0001.
4. If years later you decide you want to sell your homebuilt rifle to someone else, you can, but it will require that it have a serial number and place of manufacture per Federal law.
There is no red tape. There are no forms to fill out and building an 80% receiver is not illegal in any way.
Thanks guys! We all know red tape can be very confusing. Confusing even for local PD, County, and ATF. The legal bills justly defending ones self might outweigh any benefit. Check state and local laws before proceeding. We want all our Appleseed family to stay on the right side of the law :)
EEL
Quote from: EEL on May 27, 2010, 01:44:01 PM
Thanks guys! We all know red tape can be very confusing. Confusing even for local PD, County, and ATF. The legal bills justly defending ones self might outweigh any benefit. Check state and local laws before proceeding. We want all our Appleseed family to stay on the right side of the law :)
EEL
Very true. Another reason not to build one. All it takes is an ignorant LEO pulling you over on the way to the range, a DA trying to make a name for themselve, and you get your firearms confiscated and $50k in lawyer bills. Happens all the time here.
Thanks guys I think that about wraps this one up. O0
Reveille