I have an AR Performance 7.62x39 upper: http://www.ar15performance.com/7_62x39_rifles_and_uppers
It is great. I have had no malfunction problems and it is very accurate with Brown bear ammo. I recently shot AQTs of 236 and 238, which are the best I have ever shot. I have been using C-Products 10 and 30 round mags, which work well.
All in all, it is now my favorite rifle.
Quote from: bedford on May 10, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
I have an AR Performance 7.62x39 upper: http://www.ar15performance.com/7_62x39_rifles_and_uppers
It is great. I have had no malfunction problems and it is very accurate with Brown bear ammo. I recently shot AQTs of 236 and 238, which are the best I have ever shot. I have been using C-Products 10 and 30 round mags, which work well.
All in all, it is now my favorite rifle.
That's amazing accuracy. We had an AK on the line this past weekend and it just wasn't able to put groups together.. with the short sight radius, etc.. The shooter was getting quite frustrated.
Have you tried shooting at actual distances with it? I have wondered how 7.62x39 would handle those longer distances. Thanks for posting the link - I'll check it out.
Quote from: javaguy on May 10, 2010, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: bedford on May 10, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
I have an AR Performance 7.62x39 upper: http://www.ar15performance.com/7_62x39_rifles_and_uppers
It is great. I have had no malfunction problems and it is very accurate with Brown bear ammo. I recently shot AQTs of 236 and 238, which are the best I have ever shot. I have been using C-Products 10 and 30 round mags, which work well.
All in all, it is now my favorite rifle.
That's amazing accuracy. We had an AK on the line this past weekend and it just wasn't able to put groups together.. with the short sight radius, etc.. The shooter was getting quite frustrated.
Have you tried shooting at actual distances with it? I have wondered how 7.62x39 would handle those longer distances. Thanks for posting the link - I'll check it out.
I've shot that round at distance, with less than stellar results. Though, that easily could be the limitation of the platform as well as the cartridge. I'd like to hear the response to this as well. Kind of take the platform out of the equation and see how that cartridge performs at distance.
"That's amazing accuracy. We had an AK on the line this past weekend and it just wasn't able to put groups together.. with the short sight radius, etc.. The shooter was getting quite frustrated.
Have you tried shooting at actual distances with it? I have wondered how 7.62x39 would handle those longer distances. Thanks for posting the link - I'll check it out."
I have not shot it any further than 25M so far. I have used Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Wolf, and Winchester white box. The Brown Bear seems most accurate.
The low ballistic coefficient of the 123 gn bullet will probably make down range performance worse than at 25M, but hopefully within 4 MOA. I have a Russian scope with a 400 M rangefinder, with aiming points also out to 400M. I am really happy with the setup. I have complete confidence in the reliability of the upper, but I am not completely convinced on the mags yet. I have not had any mag related failures so far, but have not used them in harsh conditions.
I'd be interested in knowing what the bore diameter of your barrel is.
Russian-pattern rifles use a barrel of .310 nominal bore diameter.
Russian-manufactured ammo uses a .311 diameter projectile.
USA manufactured ammo uses a .308 diameter projectile.
I have hand-loaded .311" 150gr FMJ projectiles (intended for 303 British) in 7.62x39, and have gotten excellent accuracy out to 400yds. Beyond this, I figure that there just isn't enough initial velocity to carry the rounds, and the group falls apart.
I have a 20" barrel DPMS upper on mine and I'm getting under 3 MOA groups at 100 yards using Golden Tiger FMJ Boat Tail rounds. To say I'm pleased is a vast understatement. I have aslo ran some 154 gr. Wolf Soft points that spread out a bit wider than that, but still well within acceptable. Haven't had the chance to take it out further than 100 yds yet, but I have no doubt that it will perform just dandy out to 400. I use the C Products Stainless Steel 10 and 30 round mags with zero problems. This is the rifle that I'm taking pig hunting in Texas next month, without a single hesitation. Me Likey. I'm like you Bedford, It's now my favorite rifle.
Quote from: ItsanSKS on May 11, 2010, 09:34:37 AM
I'd be interested in knowing what the bore diameter of your barrel is.
Russian-pattern rifles use a barrel of .310 nominal bore diameter.
Russian-manufactured ammo uses a .311 diameter projectile.
USA manufactured ammo uses a .308 diameter projectile.
I have hand-loaded .311" 150gr FMJ projectiles (intended for 303 British) in 7.62x39, and have gotten excellent accuracy out to 400yds. Beyond this, I figure that there just isn't enough initial velocity to carry the rounds, and the group falls apart.
I am not sure of the bore diameter. I will email them and ask. I was wondering if it is possible to pull the 123 grain projectile, and reload the steel case with a heavier bullet with a higher ballistic coefficient. I would think that if you use the higher BC bullet, you would retain the velocity and could be accurate past 400 yards.
Quote from: javaguy on May 10, 2010, 12:18:41 PM
Quote from: bedford on May 10, 2010, 09:16:31 AM
I have an AR Performance 7.62x39 upper: http://www.ar15performance.com/7_62x39_rifles_and_uppers
It is great. I have had no malfunction problems and it is very accurate with Brown bear ammo. I recently shot AQTs of 236 and 238, which are the best I have ever shot. I have been using C-Products 10 and 30 round mags, which work well.
All in all, it is now my favorite rifle.
That's amazing accuracy. We had an AK on the line this past weekend and it just wasn't able to put groups together.. with the short sight radius, etc.. The shooter was getting quite frustrated.
Have you tried shooting at actual distances with it? I have wondered how 7.62x39 would handle those longer distances. Thanks for posting the link - I'll check it out.
Using a home-built 7.62x39 1977 Romanian G AK and Monarch/Barnaul 123gr FMJ, I once produced a 3.42 MOA group at 700 yards at the Davilla 11/08 RBC. The bullets keyholed through the target backer with each bullet nose pointed at 8 o'clock (at least it was consistent). I had posted about it but the AAR was deleted when the forum went through some recent changes.
(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/953/700yardtargetrecord.jpg) (http://img291.imageshack.us/i/700yardtargetrecord.jpg/)
I love Aks - my favorite type of rifle, but as yet I have not produced a rifleman score with one. They are not the ideal platform to learn marksmanship on, but they will do if the shooter will do.
Bedford - thanks for posting about that upper and the impressive results. Glad to hear the CProducts mags work for you. Were you using iron sights or an optic?
I was using a Russian 4x scope. I like the Russian scope because it has a choke type range finder and hold over points for the 7.62x39 to 400M. The scope knobs are great, too.
This is the scope I have, except mine has a Russian range finder reticle in 7.62x39. http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/rifle-scopes/standard/po-4x24-s2-illuminated-weapon-rifle-scope-w-5-setting-duplex-rangefinding-reticle.html They don't list the one I have any more, I am not sure why. I have several other Russian scopes, which I really like, PM me if you want more info.
I heard back from AR performance. The bore diameter is .311, and the twist is 1/10. They machine their own bolts - "super bolts" which are beefier than a standard bolt face. Therefore, they machine the barrels they use to accept their bolt.
Here is my rifle:
http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/bedford_bucket/AR%20Performance/044.jpg
H builds a nice upper. you should try the 6.8 upper. you wont be sorry but your wallet might be.
Any luck on finding reliable mags for this outside of CProducts?
Quote from: jeep45238 on May 24, 2010, 04:30:29 PM
Any luck on finding reliable mags for this outside of CProducts?
No one else that I know of is making 7.62x39 mags. The only problems I have had with them, is that when the mags are fully loaded, the top cartridge points to the middle, and is only held by the back of the case. It still feeds well, but if the mag is bumped the round falls out. This seems to happen with the 10 round mags as well as the 30 round.
I found some AR mags in 7.62x39 on Armalite's website. I'm not sure if it's CProduct or not.
Armalite link:
http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=15601045&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=09232224-e4ac-4cd0-92fe-f07734b44393
---GF
I finally got to shoot this upper at distance, up to 500 yd at a silhouette range, that allowed me to use FMJ/surplus ammo. I was being coached by 2 master class riflemen, who took turns with the rifle as well. It was a lot of fun. I also got to practice watching the trace of the bullet, and learn to estimate bullet impact.
We were using the Brown Bear 123 FMJ ammo, and C-Products mags. ~250 rounds fired, w/o any malfunctions. (Prior to this, I had also shot 300 rnds of Brown Bear, without and clean/lubrication prior to this shoot) I shot paper @ 25, 100, 200, 300. It held 2 MOA to 200, then started to open up after that. However, we were able to keep the shots within the steel silhouette targets all the way out to 500. It didn't reliably knock the rams down with 1 hit, but they always went down after 2-3 hits.
I have replace my Russian scope with a standard Leuplod 2-7 duplex, as the Russian broke. I zeroed the rifle on the top duplex point @ 25. This was also my 200 yard zero. The crosshairs was my 300yd zero, and the bottom duplex point was my 400 yd zero. The 500M zero was the bottom duplex point plus 6 minutes.
All in all, still very impressed...I will try and work up a longer range load that has a bit more accuracy, but still, how can you go wrong with power/acurracy to knock down rams at 500yd using cheap ammo?
1. The AR platform should be more accurate (for most rifles) than the the AK or SKS type rifles (again, for most rifles).
2. A couple of years ago a 13 year old at Ramseur was able to work over the 300 yd. pop ups with his SKS and surplus ammo. Past 300 yds. it was a struggle (most likely due to the increasing bullet drop).
3. I've got a few CProducts mags in 5.45X39 (different than those for 7.62X39 but also different than those for the 5.56X45 cartridges). No issues at all with any of them. These are stainless steel painted black and seem to be pretty tough (can't say the same for the aluminum CProducts magazines).
4. That rifle would make a great deer rifle between the cartridge and the accuracy you're getting.
5. Bushnell makes some BDC (bullet drop compensator) scopes. When you buy a new one you get one unmarked disc/knob/cap (the other 3 are premarked for various calibers/bullet weights). That would allow you to make a custom knob for your rifle/cartridge/bullets. The only issue might be whether or not there are enough clicks in one full revolution to get you from 200 to 400 yds.