Hey guys,
I'm getting ready to go buy a CMP Garand within the next few weeks. I can stretch my budget all the way to the service grade(they currently have field, rack, and service available). I will drive to the Alabama store to select my rifle but first I was hoping I could get some recommendations on how to hand select my rifle.
Thanks for all of the input.
I choose for barrel quality first. They have the tools right there (and will either show you how to use them and loan them to you to use there, or they will do the measuring for you) to check the barrels for muzzle wear (usually from improper cleaning) and throat erosion (lots of shooting).
A barrel is the most expensive thing to buy and have replaced so pick one with a good barrel to start with.
Next I'd look at metal finish (how good is it?) and stock finish. Though for me stock finish has always been the last thing I worry about because I'm gonna redo it anyway.
If you end up having to replace any of the smaller operating parts they aren't really very expensive and you can do it yourself.
I've messed with 6 CMP Garands (4 field grades and 2 rack grades) in the last year (some mine and others bought by relatives). Only one of the 6 has had any functioning issues - it is a Greek rack grade. I replaced several of the internal parts and it's working fine these days. All of them are capable of shooting 1" or smaller groups at 25 yds. with Greek surplus (also from the CMP). Take some extra money for a crate (or two) of Greek. One in the clips/bandoliers and one in the 20 round boxes (reuse the clips).
Good luck. Enjoy your trip. There's not much like walking into a store full of US History and picking out a rifle that may have been carried by a young soldier far from home and in danger while defending our way of life. We'll never be able to do that with the rifles used in Viet Nam and the middle east so get a WW2/Korean War veteran rifle and take it home to honor it's service (while you shoot it - it was made to shoot!)
Why did you have to tell me they have rack grades?
Now I want two Garands. I'd buy a rack grade just for the receiver and small parts and build from there.
CMP prices as of a few minutes ago (from here): http://www.odcmp.com/Services/Rifles/m1garand.htm
SHIPPING & HANDLING
RIFLES - $22.95 PER RIFLE
RECEIVERS - $9.95 PER RECEIVER
BARRELED RECEIVERS - $12.95 PER BAR/REC
RACK GRADE: (Fair)
Rack Grade Rifles are mechanically the same as Field Grade rifles above, but will show more wear on many of their parts and may have more pitting on the metal parts. Wood will be sound, but well used, with cracks, poor fit, and many dents and gouges. Throat erosion will be 5 or more and muzzle wear may be over a 3 on a muzzle gauge. The overall appearance and condition will generally be rougher than any other grade. Fair condition.
FIELD GRADE: (Fair to Good)
Field Grade Rifles. Most of these rifles have been refinished or rebuilt at least once while in military service and will likely have some parts from other manufacturers. Fair to good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the finish; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts; wood will be basically sound but may be well used with minor hairline cracks, and many dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color, type of wood or condition. These rifles may have some foreign parts and wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety. Rifles do not have import marks. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, and the muzzle may gauge more than "3" on muzzle gauge. The Throat Erosion will gauge less than 5 - well within US Army standards. Do not expect rifles in mint condition in this grade.
SERVICE GRADE: (Good to Very Good)
Service Grade Rifles show less wear and better appearance than Field or Rack Grades. Good to very good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the parkerized finish; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts; wood will be either Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety and will be basically sound but may have minor hairline cracks, dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color or type of wood; bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, but the muzzle will gauge less than 3 and the throat erosion will gauge less than 5.
CORRECT GRADE: (Very Good to Excellent)
Correct Grade Rifles are similar to the Service Grade (above), but will show less wear and use. Correct Grade rifles will have all correct parts for the date of manufacture with 80% or better overall original metal finish. The stock and handguards will be of walnut and correct for the rifle but will have some dings, dents, scratches and marring of the wood finish. Stocks will have the appropriate original inspector's cartouche. The rifle bore will be very good with no significant defects and with a throat erosion of less than 4 and a muzzle wear of 2 or less. Very good to excellent condition. Limited quantities are occasionally available. Prices start at $950. See tables below.
COLLECTOR GRADE: (Excellent)
Collector Grade Rifles have 95% or better overall original metal finish. Rifle bores are excellent with throat erosion under 3 and muzzle wear of 2 or less. Collector Grade rifles have all original parts as they came from the manufacturer. Wood will have a few handling marks and minor dings and scratches. Stocks have the appropriate inspector's cartouche. Data sheets prepared by CMP armorers are included in the butt trap of each Collector Grade Rifle. Excellent condition - little or no use. Limited quantities are occasionally available. Prices start at $1400. See tables below.
GARAND OPTIONS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ARE LISTED BELOW. We will add other manufacturers and options as they become available.
MI GARAND
ITEM # DESCRIPTION PRICE Comments
RM1SAR M1 Garand, Springfield Armory, Rack Grade $445.00 Please allow 30-45 days for delivery.
RM1SAF M1 Garand, Springfield Armory, Field Grade $495.00 Please allow 60-90 days for delivery.
RM1SAS M1 Garand, Springfield Armory, Service Grade $595.00 Please allow 60-90 days for delivery.
RM1SACR M1 Garand, Springfield Armory, Correct Grade $950.00 Please allow 30-45 days for delivery.
IIRC, Boston's Gun Bible has a good 'buying a used rifle' section in the Garand chapter.
Picked up my Garand last March and being the tight wad that I am I went with the greek rack grade and was out the door for around $425, and have loved this rifle! Barrel wear was The main factor of my choice, those who have seen it can attest to this, it isn't the worst looking wood just looks like it was used to hold pin ups in some ones fox hole!!! About 50 little tack marks on it, it cleaned up good and shoots better than I do. On the ammo purchases buy more than you think you will ever need and then buy another case!!! The garands shoot so well before you know it you will have 2 cases thru it!
At the Hinesville shoot I put just over 200 rounds just on Saturday before switching to the AR.
Just plan on spending a half day there and get there early on Thursday for a better selection, let me know when you are going and might bum a ride from the metro area from ya
What are you talking about? i think i got a splinter just holding that rifle of yours ;D
Seriously though it was when I held you Garand that I figured out why so many people like them.
FWIW It wasnt until I watched Jerico season 1 that I decided I NEEDED one. That show did bad things to me.
The "feel" of a Garand?
I bought my M1A in 1978. I love it. I've carried lighter rifles deer hunting but the only rifle I've killed deer with is my M1A. I plan to always have my M1A.
However, after my first M1 last fall I've found I have room in my preferred rifle closet for more than just the M1A. My M1A has not been fired since the May RBC when us "instructors" got to join the attendees on pop ups one afternoon. My M1 (one or the other) has been out shooting with me 5 times since then. When I walk out in the back yard to let the dogs wander around and I take a rifle with me to do a little dry firing it's an M1. It's the feel. It fits me. There's something about the balance, the way it feels, the way the target (knot or lichen spot on a tree trunk) looks through those sights and the way I feel when the hammer goes "click" that makes me grab it when I go out the door.
Spare parts for M1's are probably more available and cheaper than for any other rifle out there. I get mine at gunshows, off ebay, from fulton armory, numrich, whoever seems to have what I want at a good price. If you're gonna buy a rifle to use for hard times you should buy the spare parts to insure you can keep it running and learn how to tear it down and install them. The better you know your rifle, the more confidence you'll have in it.
Do those of you with experience buying from CMP have comments on choosing a Field, Rack, or Service grade?
I haven't regretted the Field Grade I bought, but I did drive to the store & pick it out myself. There weren't any Rack grade ones available that day, so I don't know how big a difference there is.
According to CMP,
QuoteField Grade Rifles. Most of these rifles have been refinished or rebuilt at least once while in military service and will likely have some parts from other manufacturers. Fair to good condition. Rifle wear will be exhibited by worn and mixed colors of the finish yes, but not severely mis-matched; there may be some minor pitting on the metal parts I've not noticed any; wood will be basically sound but may be well used Good, so it's smootherwith minor hairline cracks not on any that I fondled handled, and many dings, scratches and gouges; wood may not match in color, type of wood or condition which is why we refinish stocks. These rifles may have some foreign parts and wood may be Walnut, Birch, Beech or other variety. Rifles do not have import marks. Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections; the barrel crown may be nicked, and the muzzle may gauge more than "3" on muzzle gauge. The Throat Erosion will gauge less than 5 - well within US Army standards. Do not expect rifles in mint condition in this grade. this is why you go there & gauge them yourself if at all possible; I've seen Service Grade Rifles with TE of 1.5!
Quote from: BoltGuy on November 18, 2007, 04:35:14 PM
Do those of you with experience buying from CMP have comments on choosing a Field, Rack, or Service grade?
If you can afford it & want to leave it as issued, spring for Service grade. Also if you are buying sight unseen, not picking one out at the North or South CMP stores. Field grade is used & used hard, but still good to go, just never going to be picked first for its looks. Still a beautiful rifle when you've got your beer goggles on tho'... ;) Anyway, Field grades will have more muzzle or throat erosion than an otherwise equivalent Service grade, ie: a good looking Field grade will generally have a ME of more than 3 or TE >5 or both, while a cosmetically challenged Field may otherwise have been graded Service, w/ MEs of 3 or less.
Rack grades will generally have stocks that have to be replaced or other mechanical issues, ie: they need work. I bought a Greek rack grade at the '06 Western Games that had a stock that was made out of olive tree? or some other kind of fire wood, and had then proceeded to be used to dig latrines or something! I kid you not, this could only be called a "stock" because it had inletting. But the rest of the rifle was in better shape than some Field grades with superior wood. The benefit of picking out one at the WG [or Eastern Games or one of the stores if you're close enough] is that you can specify what you're looking for to the CMP staff & they'll help you look. In my case, I'd been squadded up w/ John McLean the day before, so he was willing to help me sort thru the Rack grades for something that would be a good shooter. I sure hated to pass up the racker w/ the Winchester op-rod right next to the one I finally chose [selling that alone would have paid for 1/4 of my purchase price, and I had a spare NM op-rod from when the CMP still sold those] but it's ME was a 5 and would likely never shoot under 4moa again. My racker had a ME of 2.5 and TE of 4, iirc, so still has lots of good miles left in her if I do my part & use a bore guide when cleaning, keep my head during rapid fire, etc.
So I guess I'm saying is that they're all worth the money, but if you're just sending off your hard-earned $$ and hoping for a good'un, spend a little extra on the Service grade. For most people, the price differential btw the Field & Rack grades just does
not justify stepping down to Rack; you're better off springing the little extra for a Field grade unless you're just looking for "good bones" that you'll be shipping off for a complete match rifle package from Fulton Armory or someone similar.
And of course, if you've got the ducats to spare, shelling out for a Correct grade is just the most rewarding option wrt pride of ownership! :D
You can also take your time and look at the Rack Grades and see if you can find one with a good tight barrel that got marked down a level for having a "truly ugly" stock.
Then you can learn to live with the "truly ugly" stock, as it will grown on you if you let it, or you can re-stock.
I know a couple of guys who got rifles where the stock and the finish put them down in Rack Grade, while the barrel rating by itself would have put them in Field or Service Grades (Mz 3 and TE 5 for both) or maybe on up into Correct (Mz 2, TE 4) or even Collector Grade (Mz2, TE 3).
Just realize that if the barrel is that good the finish and especially the stock are going to be REALLY UGLY!
Buckshot
Quote from: BoltGuy on November 18, 2007, 04:35:14 PM
Do those of you with experience buying from CMP have comments on choosing a Field, Rack, or Service grade?
Get yourself an H&R Service Grade, the last 4 I got from the CMP have been fantastic. Great shooters, barrels look like new, metal finish very good, a couple dings in the stocks but nothing serious.
The H&R's have been better overall than the CMP SA I have seen. My Winchester M1 is no where near as good a shooter as the H&R's.
I'm still looking for an IH in good condition, the last 2 I saw were pitted so bad above the wood line I didn't even check below it.
I spoke with Gus of Gus's Garands yesterday at the gun show in Richmond about CMP Garands. He strongly suggested paying extra for the service grade - (paraphrasing) "the extra quality is worth more than the extra $100".
The H&R service grades I got were way nicer than expected. They both came with new stocks and very little wear on the metal. I had sent a little note asking for shooters over collectables. Thats also why I went with the 50's H&R's, to avoid the WW2 riden hard versions.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm75/B964/100_1474-2.jpg)
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm75/B964/100_1476-1.jpg)
Hi,
FedEx delivered my first CMP M1 this afternoon and I feel almost as giddy as I did when I brought my first son home from the hospital. I've been playing with it all afternoon. I know you'll understand.
Now then, should I go for the .308 conversion? (Asking this is almost like asking whether you think I should circumsize the kids.) I expect to get an M14/M1A sometime soon - depending on election results - and I think it would be more convenient to feed all the rifles the same ammo. Any thoughts on this?
I'd appreciate your opinions.
Best to all, Sean O'
P.S. I ordered the M1 only 10 days ago, so I was astonished to get it so soon after reading on the CMP site that I shouldn't expect to see it for 60 to 90 days. Amazing.
Quote from: SeanO on October 20, 2008, 08:25:58 PM
Hi,
FedEx delivered my first CMP M1 this afternoon and I feel almost as giddy as I did when I brought my first son home from the hospital. I've been playing with it all afternoon. I know you'll understand.
Now then, should I go for the .308 conversion? (Asking this is almost like asking whether you think I should circumsize the kids.) I expect to get an M14/M1A sometime soon - depending on election results - and I think it would be more convenient to feed all the rifles the same ammo. Any thoughts on this?
I'd appreciate your opinions.
Best to all, Sean O'
P.S. I ordered the M1 only 10 days ago, so I was astonished to get it so soon after reading on the CMP site that I shouldn't expect to see it for 60 to 90 days. Amazing.
Sean, I'd leave it .30-06. Curerntly, .30-06 surplus ammo is easier to find, better quality and cheaper than .308 surplus.
Looking forward to seeing that M1 sometime. Maybe Jericho next year. Definitely THE range for it.
Hi Nickle
Thanks for the thoughts on M1 ammo.
I'm 90% sure that I'll be in Middlebury this coming weekend, so you'll get to see the new baby.
Best, Sean O'
P. S. Do the stars below our names in the postings represent the number of Appleseeds we've attended? If so, I need a second star (Harvard MA and Winchendon MA).
Quote from: SeanO on October 20, 2008, 10:37:48 PM
Hi Nickle
Thanks for the thoughts on M1 ammo.
I'm 90% sure that I'll be in Middlebury this coming weekend, so you'll get to see the new baby.
Best, Sean O'
P. S. Do the stars below our names in the postings represent the number of Appleseeds we've attended? If so, I need a second star (Harvard MA and Winchendon MA).
Well, remember, Middlebury is .22 only, shooting wise, but, go ahead and bring that M1, I can give you some tips on it, and we can show the shooters what they get from CMP.
Sadly, the stars refer to post counts, not Appleseeds attended.
I am looking forward to having you again, you always seem to inspire me, proving that age is just a number.
Sean I agree with Nickle buy the ammo from cmp even with shipping it will still be cheaper than anything you find localy or at gun show. I plan on hitting the north store for ammo on my way home from Vt in a few weeks.