I loaded 200 rounds of .45 ACP this afternoon.
I checked the cases when resizing (looking for cracks, sharp/weak spots in the case mouth).
I checked the cases again when "belling" the case mouth so the lead bullets would seat okay (looking for the same things).
I checked the cases when the primers were seated (two of them were noticeably "light" on pressure required to seat the primer). On the two that felt funny I tapped the edge of the rim on the table and one primer fell out. Find it while reloading so it won't bite you while shooting.
I put the powder in. I always check the powder amount by looking down in the case with a small maglite kept at the table for that purpose. Everything was okay on the first couple of boxes (I also weigh every 10th powder charge to make sure the powder measure doesn't drift). I set the bullets in and seated them (I only use a very slight crimp, just enough to remove the small amount the case is belled to allow easy bullet seating). While inspecting them I ran across two with small cracks in the case mouth and set them aside. How many inspections is that? I pulled the bullets got two more cases and put primers in them and since they were in my hand I put poder in them and set them in a case holder/tray.
I repeated the powder for the next 100 rounds and saw my two cases that replaced the those two with the split case mouths. I picked the tray up and put powder in them. I got my flashlight out to check the cases and WOW, two of them looked different (the two I'd already put powder in previously). Those two had 11 grains of Bulleye in them vs. 5.4 grains. That would have been a little bit past exciting if I hadn't caught it through the flashlight check. I got the powder amount straight put the bullet on the cases and seated them.
You need a routine (but sooner or later something will break that routine) and you need inspections of the raw materials (brass/primers/powder/bullets) at each step of the reloading process to insure you don't "build" rounds that are unsafe to shoot.
Be careful, take your time and do it right. At pressures of 50,000 psi or more you can't afford to make mistakes.
Good info, Old Dog. That's why I'm a bit "gun shy" of letting those "do all" progressive loaders run free. Deprime, prime, bell, drop powder, seat, and crimp with each pull of the handle.
I like to inspect while I deprime, wash 'em, look 'em over while I spread them out to dry. Look at 'em again while I hand prime, THEN dump 'em in the hopper. visually look at each load as it rotates, ck powder weight in every 10th O0, Ck overall length every 50.
Like you say,,,it would be more than exciting....not in a good way :-\
EEL
I greatly fear the double-charge and the squib. I triple check charges before seating, even on my progressive for plinkin' ammo.
Good reminder O.D! I've been working on my single stage Rockcrusher for going on a couple years now hoping to move on up to a progressive. Maybe faster isn't better! O0
Some folks my ask why I didn't catch the splits/cracks with one inspection. Well, when you start reloading for handguns you'll realize that a case mouth can crack when you "bell" the mouth (expands the case mouth to make the bullet start down in there without catching the mouth or shaving lead off the bullet base), it can crack when you crimp the case mouth (I use as little crimp as possible on the .45 acp but it still forces the metal to change shape/size which can lead to a crack/split).
I find that little flashlight invaluable for looking down in the cases to unsure powder is in the case. With rifle cases and the powder amount used in them it would be pretty tough to double charge one but with pistol cases and some of the powders used there it can happen much more easily.
Be methodical and observant and safe.
Quote from: Old Dog on April 05, 2010, 09:20:49 PM
I find that little flashlight invaluable for looking down in the cases to unsure powder is in the case. With rifle cases and the powder amount used in them it would be pretty tough to double charge one but with pistol cases and some of the powders used there it can happen much more easily.
Be methodical and observant and safe.
All good points! O0
In addition (or in place of, depending on your eyesight!), the inexpensive 4' fluorescent light sets hung about 4' off the table work great for lighting. I actually have two sets (four 40w bulbs total) over my reloading bench.
Hey! This sounds just like me!
I reload in the same manner and only work with one tray at a time. I also take a break before powder charging. I step outside, get some fresh air, have a smoke and drink some water. Stretching helps too. I don't know about you guys, but my hind-end gets sore, no matter how much padding on the stool.
I have always been a firm believer of quality over quantity. Progressives seem like a disaster waiting to happen, IMHO. I just prefer single-stage, eventhough progressives do have lots of safety features available to prevent no charge/double charge conditions and the like. I already have all my single stage equipment and can't justify reinvesting in new equipment, plus I find it very theraputic to reload in the manner that I do it.
Stay safe and see you on the trail,
TH
Jason
Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen. I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive. Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety. On my dillon 650, there are two options. One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press. If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily.
I opted to go a more manual route. I have a light positioned such that I can see into the case. Before seating every case, I make sure that I have a good eyeball on the powder level in the case. If it looks high or low in the case, it gets yanked off the press and double-checked on the scale.
I've found that I have a lot of false positives that way. Sometimes, powder just falls into the case ... "fluffy" for lack of a better term. It looks like there's more in there than should be. Then you dump it into the scale pan and find out your charge is perfect. Then you dump it back into the case, and it's not "fluffy" anymore, and the charge looks normal.
Me? I'm just fine with a few of these false-positives per thousand rounds loaded. Rather be safe than sorry. Thousands and thousands of .45ACP and 5.56 have been safely assembled on my progressive. Not that this is cause for complacency. Just like a single-stage, complacency will get you hurt. Check, and double check. And just in case you got distracted (the wife called, the cat farted, meteor strike) go ahead and check again. But I'd say on a round-count to screwup ratio, progressives aren't any more dangerous than single stages, assuming a diligent operator.
When I'm doing precision reloading for my bolt-guns on the single stage, I actually take a flashlight and peer down every case. Again, diligence. It's the same diligence on a single stage as it is on a progressive, just applied differently.
Quote from: siglite on April 06, 2010, 01:16:46 AM
Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen. I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive. Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety. On my dillon 650, there are two options. One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press. If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily.
This is mainly why myself, as a newbie reloader (been doing it since this time last year) prefer single stage and manual tools. It forces you to learn the process and understand each and every step so you can develop good habits. Eventually once the wife starts competitions and is practicing we will likely move to a progressive press. But I would prefer one, as you indicate above, allows you to include quality control and safety checks in the process.
Quote from: starfox on April 06, 2010, 03:14:26 PM
Quote from: siglite on April 06, 2010, 01:16:46 AM
Progressives are far from a disaster waiting to happen. I've loaded and fired thousands and thousands of rounds on a progressive. Just like a single stage, you develop a process for safety. On my dillon 650, there are two options. One is that you can purchase a powder-check station for the press. If your charge is high or low, it will alarm quite noisily.
This is mainly why myself, as a newbie reloader (been doing it since this time last year) prefer single stage and manual tools. It forces you to learn the process and understand each and every step so you can develop good habits. Eventually once the wife starts competitions and is practicing we will likely move to a progressive press. But I would prefer one, as you indicate above, allows you to include quality control and safety checks in the process.
I've had many friends, some of them with significant disposable income to drop into reloading, say "I'm gonna get a Dillon XXX and pump out 30k rounds per year, will you help?"
"No."
"WHY NOT!?"
"You get a single stage, and I will help you with every step in the process. In six months or a year, if you want to go to a progressive, I'll help you with that too."
The route you're going is the route I advocate to everyone. Walk before you run.
I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep. A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.
Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly.
I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.
Quote from: Aromatic on April 06, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep. A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.
Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly.
I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.
Progressives do not speed up brass prep. But when you're dealing with lots measured in thousands, there is an incredible amount of time saved in having priming, charging, (belling on handguns), seating, and crimping all in one pull of the lever. If my operation is uninterrupted, I can easily do several hundred in an hour.
Quote from: Aromatic on April 06, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep. A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.
Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly.
I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.
The RCBS Trim Mate Case Prep Center (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=565099) is the only thing I've seen that can somewhat speed up case prep, but I wonder about the cost vs time saved. Plus with the Lyman hand tools, I can get pretty speedy on my own once I get a rhythm down.
Quote from: Aromatic on April 06, 2010, 04:05:01 PM
I am still fairly new to reloading but for service rifles, I have decided most of the time is spent on case prep. A progressive will not speed up; trimming, chamfering, de-burring, primer pocket reaming, or paper clip checking.
Once the case is ready to go, a good priming tool and powder measure make very quick work of the assembly.
I just need to get to the point where I trust my measure enough not to weigh/trickle every charge.
Proper case prep will always take time, but a progressive can help. After reloading for 4 years, I bought a Dillon 650 a couple of months ago. After I tumble the brass I can size 4-500 rds/hr and that's having to stop every 50 rds to load the tray and spray them with One Shot. After the case prep is done I simply remove the sizing die and go.
Hey, I started with a Dillon RL550 ..no regrets after 6 years reloading and shooting thousands of rounds on this press, its the same steps , just all at once . I have a Lyman turret press I do big cartriges on(30-30,8mm, 308,30-06,)but 5.56, 7.62x39 ,.30 carbine and all pistol rounds its on the Dillon.You will develop a feel when somethings not right , when in doubt throw the cartrige in a bin , pull the bullet and start over.I too have a light over the powder station and look in each case before seating the bullet. Dont be afraid of progressive loaders ,mistakes are made on single stage presses just as easy .
To answer a simple questionwith a simpe answer: When I have 60,000psi 3 inches from my eyes, the last thing I want is to realize that I didn't verify the amount of powder I loaded in that batch of loads. :o
jon
Quote from: jollynator on April 09, 2010, 02:11:21 PM
To answer a simple questionwith a simpe answer: When I have 60,000psi 3 inches from my eyes, the last thing I want is to realize that I didn't verify the amount of powder I loaded in that batch of loads. :o
jon
You got it!!
I prefer handcrafting each round on a single stage press. When I put that much time and effort into a round I tend to try a little harder to get it in the bullseye EVERY shot. I still might consider a progressive for straight wall cases if I could absolutely verify the powder charge. Until then I will handcraft every round and love every minute of it. Besides, it is a whole lot cheaper than handcrafting small block Fords. I miss my old 'stangs. wolfman
Because NOBODY loves me like me. not even my wife. having inadvertantly double charged a few cases in my life makes me VERY careful.
ya'll are confusing handloading with reloading,two different goals. Hand loading is crafting each round one by one weighing each charge and separating headstamps,cleaning primer pockets etc..... for max accuracy .Reloading is getting max amount of cases back on line safely. These rounds are as accurate from my Dillon as I could ask for.( 4 MOA at 600yds with a 16 inch M4 ). Just a side note If you were to double charge a 5.56 case on the Dillon it would overflow the case and it would look like it was in the middle of an ant pile of powder ,,kind of hard not to notice :o . Everyone stay safe no matter how you load ,cant afford to loose anyone. O0
Single stage for me. As a previous poster said ...I handload. Case prep is indeed time consuming, but worth the effort. I would add weighing and sorting of cases to the litany of case prep. I will use my Harrels to drop charges for general shooting, but I hand weigh each charge for LR shooting. The Harrels probably will throw a charge as accurate as I need it, but weighing makes me more comfortable with the handload.
All the separate steps I do for case prep has me inspecting for any possible failures many time over. There are times I have caught a split neck or other irregularity in the case in a later step of the preparation.
Again...way too much pressure right by my face.
Quote from: Old Dog on April 04, 2010, 08:13:07 PM
<snip>Those two had 11 grains of Bulleye in them vs. 5.4 grains.</snip>
I try to choose powders that fill more than 50% of case volume. Makes a double charge all but impossible.
I'm firmly with those who prefer a single stage tool. I guess I'm the belt-and-suspenders type. Saving time in what is, to me anyway, a hobby... something I enjoy doing, isn't really a priority.
Good of you to post your experience Old Dog, might just save someone from making a similar mistake some day.
I started out with a friend (mentor) that had been reloading for years, and a Dillon 550, multi tool heads, die, tumbler, &c. I did all the preps separately- tumble, trim (a little off the top ;D ) and so on. The only difficulties encountered were of my own making- the occasional squib initially. When this would happen, I'd back engineer the 'WHY' which usually was a result of my technique/cadence being momentarily broken. I've reloaded thousands of pistol and rifle rounds without incident. The bottom line,as with anything- FOCUS! AND STAY FOCUSED!
For anyone interested I'll be re-listing the Dillon, dies, &c. for sale. The whole thing is bolt it down, add powder, primers and GO! The listing will post shortly. I'm getting out of reloading due to health (can't play much) and a move.
Tom
Sorry to hear that Desertrat :( Good luck on your sale!
I weigh cartridges (5 at a time) at the end, just to be sure. The variation in brass and bullet weight will make a difference but nothing near what you would see with no powder or a double charge. It does not take long to do this with an electronic scale.
Be careful guys, like you all seem to be doing. :)
A small mirror properly positioned so you can use perpherial vision to 'see' inside the cartridge for powder, before setting the bullet on top works well.
Tom
OK... I'm a complete noob with reloading. I recently bought a used Hornady LnL AP press; I have deprimed 375 9mm cases, but as I do not yet have a tumbler, calipers, or a scale, let alone bullets, I've not reloaded a single round yet. With the knowledge of that dearth of information and experience, I will ask this: Why is a progressive seen as a bad thing? If I check a case when I put it on the press, that case will be primed, expanded, filled, and available for another check before I seat a bullet, then again after it's recrimped. Once I have a scale (or two, at least one being a balance), I can check weights, and the possibility of distraction causing a double-charge seems to be nil with one of these: Once I pull the lever, the powder fills the case. If I haven't pulled, it has not done so. This seems simple (at least in re that point) to me. 1 or 0, either it's done or it's not. BTW, yes, my press has a powder check die in place.
I would appreciate any and all information or suggestions I can get. As it stands now, I will only be loading pistol, not rifle cases, though that may change in the future.
Thanks, all.
Blessings,
Bill
Start out by using your progressive as a single stage press.
Load 25 rounds and test them.
Repeat.
Repeat.
If you find the process to be interesting and you can devote your full attention while at the press you may be a candidate for a progressive press.
I started with a single stage press. It was a great way to learn the basics and for my errors to be limited to only a few rounds. I now use my Dillon 550 for cranking out pistol rounds. For rifle I'm still more comfortable with weighing each load.....
I know nothing about progressive presses. I'm still using (very) old single stage presses and doing fine.
Most pistol die sets have 3 dies.
#1 resizes the brass and punches out the old primer. (I would run the brass through a case cleaner first to minimize the dirt/dust, ect that could damage the dies over time).
#2 "bells" the case mouth slightly. You just need enough to open the case mouth so the new bullet can be pushed down into the case without catching the side of the case mouth and tearing/wrinkling the case mouth. To much "belling" of the case mouth will result in premature case failure.
#3 seats the bullet and crimps the brass.
In between the new primer has to be seated and the powder put into the cases.
I use the scale to set up the powder measure. Once I get the powder measure adjusted to give me the right amount of powder I put the powder in 50 cases at a time and then visually look for anthing odd (less powder, more powder, no powder). Anything odd gets the powder dumped into the scale pan and reweighed. Even then I reweigh the powder in every 10th case.
Even measuring the overall length of the reloaded round may result in issues due to difference in bullet design. You need to make sure the bullet fits in and feeds from the magazine and you need to make sure fits into the chamber without the bullet contacting the lands when chambered. Seating a bullet deeper than necessary can increase pressures, too, so you don't want to do that either.
I've not really gotten into 9mm reloading yet but I've read it can be "trickier" than .45 acp. We'll see.
I always do what I call the "shooka-shooka" test. I eyeball each primer and then shake the case next to my ear, listening for that shooka shooka sound. No sound means too much powder, or none - either way, the round would come apart for inspection. Of course, in a compression load - not a valid test, but I only do them for competition and they git weighed individually.
There is nothing wrong with progressive presses but unless you are a cowboy or competitive shooter going through hundreds of rounds at a time I believe a single stage press is more than adequate. Like a previous poster, I like to check the seat on each primer. An improper seat can result in a hangfire or a revolver cylinder being hung up. The other thing I like to do is charge all of the cases with powder and then visually check them under a bright light to confirm uniform powder levels. A double charge is the usual reason for blown up firearms and hands. In the end I load every round with the idea in mind that it might be the only thing standing between me and some guy who thinks the Deliverance is a training film. Reloading is fun but I take it seriously.
I deprime and resize my cases, then reprime with a hand primer. I then bell the cases, and weigh and dump the powder in loading blocks of 50. I then visibly inspect each case to make sure their uniformly filled. I was doing this with a bar powder and noticed they were all over the place. Started re weighing the powder and had up to 10 grain differences. Found out my powder dispenser didn't like bar powder. Dumped all, and started using dip method with this powder. Sure glad I looked.
Quote from: Bill of Rights on July 26, 2010, 06:37:47 PM
Why is a progressive seen as a bad thing?
It isn't seen as a bad thing, but it is not recommended for those just beginning on the reloading path, and there are a couple of reasons.
1: A progressive press allows someone to potentially get complacent in Quality Assurance; every time you pull the handle, a completed round pops out- very easy to get into a rhythm and forget to check things like primer orientation, powder weight consistency, etc.
2: Starting with a single-stage press ensures greater familiarity with the processes involved in making the finished round. It also gives you multiple opportunities to check for cartridge uniformity.
Consistency is the key to accuracy- the more consistent you can make your round, the better your groups will be, assuming you do your part. Single stage presses, with hand-trickled powder weights, are generally considered to be the most consistent. Progressives allow you to quickly load hundreds of well-prepared cases, but a mistake in setting up any of the dies could cause a batch of 100's of rounds to be useless.
Quote1: A progressive press allows someone to potentially get complacent in Quality Assurance; every time you pull the handle, a completed round pops out- very easy to get into a rhythm and forget to check things like primer orientation, powder weight consistency, etc.
I started with a Dillon RL-550, and used it as a single stage press until my confidence [in it, myself & techniques] was up there. Then I started 'production' types of runs but with cautions described.
Even after reloading 1000s + rounds on my Dillon, I always ran a check every 10
th round on pistol. I was using Isreali powders for them, and never got a variation of more than 1/10 gr.- this was the dump & weigh method. Extruded powders were wild cards- some would sheer easily (consistant weights), others... well... I tried alternative powders.
One method that works for control [for me, at that time] was to weigh every 10-20
th round; a 5-15 gr variation from the control round (updated every 100 rifle, and 200 pistol) worked well in finding squibs.
Everyone devolps their own 'comfort' levels for variatons in weights. Out of all lessons learned, even when teaching my daughters to reload- There is NO TV, Phone, &c. PERIOD the price of an error was too high.
Also, start with the lightest load the manufacturer starts with on the powder tables.
Tom
D144,
We have that in common sir! I also began on a 550 (older one upgraded to a 550B) and I did so in "progressive mode, but very, very slowly and carefully. I say the order out loud as I do it, to keep it straight. Now ya'll bear in mind, we're talking about progressive, not auto-indexing. I still size and decap in single stage mode, as I use mostly once-fired mil cases and they must be swagged and trimmed before priming. I have never had a single primer not seat correctly on the Dillon, but I still eyeball every one before I pack it up.
For me, the best chance of a screw up is in distraction, causing me to lose the order, hence the verbal confirm prior to each pull.
I am looking to switch to an electronic scale - have had too many malfs with the beam. Although brand new, it "sticks" and I have to be uber-careful to avoid overcharge. Further, it is dead easy to bump the little 1/10 gram weight - just too darn much trouble and I have my eye on a new one at Cabela's that is less than the Dillon, but same accuracy rating. My auto powder measure works very well - stays within 1/10 grain on ball powder and does near that well on extruded, but does require more care and a slower hand - bring the handle down and let it rest for a second, before raising it agin.
I shoot HP competition (got two matches in this year - bare minimum to maintain card required to shoot from position at my local range), and I load for that - mostly short stick, like R15 (actually mil pull down "Long Range"), and I have zeroed a great recipe for 77 grain HP match rounds. Once the auto measure is set - it does just fine. I mean, I am no expert and have less than 2000 loaded rounds of experience, but I check it periodically and the targets never lie. :~
Back to bailing.
Reloading is like "yoga" for me - it's my therapy to unwind at end of day and offers me a little sense of accomplishment. Since Appleseeds - it is the only "hobby" I have left. ~~:)
This is interesting.
So both Trey and Eric reload. Maybe we can get together and have a reload party. :-)
I have looked into it for a couple of years, almost bought 2 or 3 times but spent my money on rifles, hand guns and ammo instead.
Being an ex electronics technician, and now an IT system/sever/security administrator (well, I consult actually), both jobs require precision as one error will cause a failure, as in many things in life.
I have noted a number of items.
Use a powder that will fill more than half of your case with a charge. Then a double charge will spill out.
If you don't do the above...if you every feel any compression of the powder, stop, take it apart, and find out what is going on.
YMMV
marrandy,
Come over some weekend and I'll run you through entire process from tedious end to tedious end.
Referring to your earlier PM - go with the 550. It can be run like a single stage, handles all the calibers you are interested in, and once you ready, will rock and roll like old fashioned cola. :---
Prepping the cases and working up loads is the tedious part - the actual loading is pretty quick. It's all therapy to me. ^-^
PHenry is absolutely right. The biggest time taker and effort is in getting the cases ready to load.
step 1 is run them through the vibrating cleaner to get the dirt/powder residue off (makes the dies last longer, too).
step 2 is to soak them in some warm water with (dog gone it, can't remember the name of the stuff - its crystals in a green bottle that you add to your dishwasher to get the spots off the dishes - but the important thing is it will shine your brass up like new in about 10 minutes vs. several hours in the polisher)
step 3 is to throw them back in the polisher after knocking the water out of them and let the walnut shells and sunlight dry the inside and outside of the cases
step 4 is resizing/depriming them
step 5 is getting the resizing lube off them (I usually let the polisher do that for me, too - there is so much other stuff I can do while that thing is running out on the deck)
step 6 is running them through the case trimmer (unless its a batch I've already trimmed the first time I reloaded them). I check to make sure there is no walnut shell particle in the flash hole and remove it when there is (paper clip works fine for this)
step 7 is chamfering the case mouth (removes the burrs/sharp edges from the trimming process
steps
step 8 is running any of the military cases through the press with the primer pocket swager installed to remove the crimp on the primer pocket
step 9 is putting the primers in (I sometimes let mine sit a few days with primers in them and it hasn't seemed to hurt anything so far - just sitting in the loading blocks in my shed) I also check to make sure the primers are seated correctly
At each of the above steps I'm looking at the cases and sometimes I wonder how in the world I missed the cracked case mouth or other "lethal" damage that results in the case going into the scrap bin during one of the previous steps.
step 10 is set up the powder measure (using the scale till I get it just right) and then put powder in a couple hundred cases - I always check every case with a small flashlight to insure it has powder in it. I also check every 10th case on the scale to insure there is no "drift" in the amount of powder measured into the case.
step 11 is setting up the die and seating the bullets in those cases.
As you can see, case prep/inspection takes far more time than the powder/bullet steps. The good thing is you can do a lot of it well ahead of time and store the cleaned and ready brass in a gallon sized zip lock freezer bag or other plastic air tight jug/bottle/container and it will stay nice and shiny.
My reloads have been used to kill all the deer I've killed, all the groundhogs exept for two (shot with a .22 handgun at close range) and lots of paper, soda cans (that's pop cans for you southerners), milk jugs, etc.
Learning to reload and doing it right is another step in getting to know your rifles - and your own capabilities even better.
Have fun, be safe. Usually the most accurate loads are not the fastest (highest pressure) loads but are found 2 to 300 fps slower than the max load.
I don't usually wash my cases,as long as they aren't muddy or somehow nasty, I resize 'em, throw'em in the tumbler with corn cob media, then trim.
Keep in mind my cases are not "found on range" stuff, they go from box to gun and back again.
If you use the trimmer/sizer, it will take out the pieces of media that get stuck in the flash hole, as the pin passes through hole to bottom out on portion of tool that is either hand held or chucked in a drill. (I prefer the drill) The trimmer should bottom out at the correct "trim to" length for that specific caliber, but I had one that was too long - that will leave you necks too long and possibly cause some really nasty pressures. So measure everything!
After filling cases, I hold tray under light, so I can see that all are evenly filled.
It's a good idea to weigh some bullets before loading also, to make sure you you don't get a batch of 180s when you were supposed to be loading 150s. Seems elementary, but it happens.
Learning to check the depth on primers is critical if you're reloading for a semi auto particularly.
I only "launder" my cases if they are stained. Fresh range pick ups will tumble up pretty quick, but u can tumble a stained case for 12 hours and it will still be stained - shiny, but stained (how do I know this u ask?).
For the stained versions, I use a Birchwood Casey product that is some sort of mild acid - takes 2 minutes to clean them and then after a few rinses in warm water, I lay them out on the tops of Rubbermaid brand, 18 gallon totoe tops on garage floor. I have a big floor fan and I run it on them and shuffle them several times over course of a few hours. Once dry, the tumble clean in an hour or less.
To remove lube, I just tumble finished bullets in corn cob for 10 minutes to no ill effects and that saves me having to git the media out of flash hole.
For a case trimmer (rifle only), I use the Giraud trimmer. Works like a pencil sharpener - very consistent, but pricey (worth every penny). http://www.giraudtool.com/prod02.htm
Lemi-shine - lemi-shine....I remembered the name (really my wife reminded me just now).
I put warm water in a plastic container, put a couple table spoons of lemi-shine in the water and stir it up. And then dump the cases in and let them sit for about 5 or 10 minutes (it can be less).
If you want to see how well it works hold a tarnished case on one end, stick half of it into the water (with lemi-shine) and swirl it around three or four times and pull it out. Half will be shining like a new case and the other half will be dull and tarnished. It drastically reduces the time required to get nice shiny brass.
Here's a technique that Itsansks and I pioneered for testing hot experimental loads...
Wait for Phenry to turn his back and slip a few rounds into his mags and stand waaaaayyyyyy back. O0
Item #442 in the Appleseed excuse book: "My groups opened up because Itsansks and Thaifighter were testing new loads!" **)
Dude, you know PHenry is never going to let us near him again while he's on the firing line, right? Good going!
Guess we'll just have to prep mags for Sly223 now...
Very funny.
I run every round through a simple test. I shake them next to my ear and listen for powder, then I visually inspect the primer and overall appearance. Each round is also measured for OAL prior to the final "audio/visual" check.
When I test fire a new load - I always wear eye protection, line up the rifle on a bench rest, turn my face away and squeeze the trigger - just in case. The chance of a problem is perdy slim, as I work up from well below established guidelines. It would seem to this newbie that pistol powders should be kept well marked and away from the reloading bench when running rifle rounds - as that would be a mistake made only once.
I've now loaded 200 rds of 9mm FMJ (aka range only) ammo. All of them weighed in, when completed, at between 178 and 183 grains total case weight. (one round each at the extremes; majority 180-181.4 grains)
with one exception. A round which I noticed on weighing was like 172 gr, but the bullet looked a little shorter, too. The bullets I'm using have a line around them and this one was at the same place as the other rounds, but the tip, beyond that line, didn't come up as high. I made a point of marking that round, but I didn't need to as it sits lower in my cartridge box than the others.
I've also found that my press does not have a check on it to ensure that the primer is seated prior to putting a powder charge in the case. I found this when I seated a bullet on top of the charged but unprimed case and had to dump the powder out through the flash hole prior to tapping the bullet out and re-running the case through the press. Prime, powder, powder check, seat, crimp, weigh, and box.
Henceforth, I'll be depriming and repriming all cases first, then removing the depriming die.
Questions for the group:
Is that 5-6 grain difference in total weight significant enough for me to worry? I took the suggested powder charge down 10% before calibrating my press to throw a charge.
Is the short round one I should avoid using? Again, this is just range ammo. I use factory JHPs for my SD carry.
Is there anything else I should be noting when asking questions like this?
Thanks all, for the feedback.
Blessings,
Bill
I would not shoot it. I haven't reloaded 9mm (yet) but the cases are fairly small and probably don't have much powder (vs case and bullet weight) anyway. You can use a kinetic bullet puller (I've used mine for years with no issues) to remove the bullet.
Once I put powder in the cases I always use a small flashlight to look down in the cases to see if they have powder and if the powder level is similar case to case.
I use old pistol (.45 acp) plastic trays that some of the ammo manufacturer's use in their boxes of ammo for my reloading/case trays. They are white but light still passes through them. I can glance at the 50 cases (base down in the tray) and see if they have walnut shell media left in them if I shine a light up from the bottom of the tray. I can do a double check to see if they have primers in them, too.
Anytime you have doubt that you did everything right - stop - and backtrack and check to make sure you did it right. Everytime you pull the trigger you're setting off a miniature explosion in your hand/near your face - you need to be sure you've "built" the reload correctly.
The jokes above about testing reloads are jokes, not serious in any way. Folks who don't reload sensibly don't reload for long.
I always load everything singlestage...thousands of rounds of 308 a year...and quite a few 30-06 & 338 Lapua.
The reason I load single stage (and I use a Redding T-7 Turret Press) is that I've yet to find a progressive that will Swage and Anneal. Hard to fit the MAPP/Propane torch next to the Powder Measure :-\
I've used the Giraud, really like them, but I'm still trimming on an RCBS lathe-type trimmer....have got the cutter now that chamfers, deburrs, and trims at the same time.
I've always annealed with a cordless drill clamped on the bench using a 3/8" drive tool and a deep socket but I just picked up a Ken Light BC1000 annealer this weekend so I'll see how that works.
My method of reloading is by fairly large batches a couple steps at a time...say 200-300 rounds or so in a night. After work, I'll do one or two steps to all of my brass. Last night, for example, I pulled a couple hundred pieces of 30-06 brass out of the tumbler, lubed them, sized them, trimmed them, cleaned the primer pockets, and threw them back in the tumbler overnight. Tonight, I'll inspect them all, clean the corncob out of the flash holes, and prime them. On Thursday, I'll drop powder and seat bullets.
Bottom line, as everyone here has indicated, check and recheck at every step of your reloads. Something will distract you in your process and having a secondary check may save your sight or your life.
-David
Edgewood, NM
QuoteThe jokes above about testing reloads are jokes, not serious in any way. Folks who don't reload sensibly don't reload for long.
OD,
Agreed. There are old reloaders and bold reloaders, but no such thing as old and bold reloaders. It's like shooting. Not inherently dangerous, but there are inviolable rules that must be followed. I began reloading by looking at pics of exploded rifles and maimed shooters. I would recommend same for all new reloaders. It's the same principle I employ in my 9:AM briefing. :"Can anyone tell me the possible consequence of failing to follow the safety rules I am about to teach you?" "Great bodily harm and death". I like to get their attention right before I begin and nothing gets people on the same page as fear of GBH & D.
When in doubt - pull it down. It's tedious, but beats GBH&D. I have pulled hundreds of rounds down - just to be absolutely certain. Someone asked me the other day - how many of your hand loads have failed? Huh? ahhh, none. He was amazed. Take your time. Focus. Check and re-check. Inspect every round visually, top to bottom and all around, before storing it for shooting. Safety is job #1 in all things rifle.
QuoteOD,
Agreed. There are old reloaders and bold reloaders, but no such thing as old and bold reloaders.
You will not believe me when I tell you I typed this same line, but with the addition/comparison to the "bold fighter pilots and old fighter pilots" quote at the end of my post this morning and then deleted it before I hit the post key.
Sometimes its scary around here. :)