We're under the 60 day mark until the Boulder City April 17-18 shoot, and we have ZERO registered.
I'm passing out flyers.
I try for at least one a day.
I've even left them under windshield wipers of cars with bumper stickers that led me to believe they might have our same ideals.
What else are we doing to have an awesome April shoot with new faces? ???
I'll get the date on the NV PVA site.
Could you send me any other dates for S. NV?
Tom
Hey TS,
Just a thought...I know BC had a pretty good turnout when we were hitting the home schooler bunch with our program.....
While I do not recall right off who were the primary contacts there in the Vegas area, the articles & blogs from Mas Ayoob in Backwoods Magazine should help immensely on that end....plus the Moms & kids coming out made for a lot of fun on the line........ O0
Also, we have a friendly DJ out there on KOMP that shot with us early last year....she had a blast, and could probably do another TSA for us on air, if she were approached nicely.....I'll dig up the info here.... ;)
Give me a shout, and let me know what you find....I haven't been hearing much about the HS'rs lately.....
TTYS
LLP
Try putting some out at a few of the gunshops in your area. Also, if you are aware of any gun shows in the vicinity, that is a perfect opportunity to pass out a lot of flyers.
Oh, I find one of the best places is to hang up some flyers at your local Range. Go to the range several times. Talk to the people that are there.
Shoot a bit, and when more people show up, talk to them also.
I'll mod this reply with the Cross Roads Gun Show flyer. They cover Utah, AZ, NV CA. I'm working on the copy now.
Tom
I've just added the Crossroads of the West schedule.
The Venture Crews are limited by age to the type of rifle used. You might suggest as an alternative, showing up as a Crew, but no BSA Official attire in the event of Administrative _______.
Tom
I know my dad hit up all the shops in town right before the February shoot, but it wouldn't hurt to do it again. One of the owner's sons came out to check it out. He didn't shoot with us, but he stuck around and asked some questions. I'm also planning to get more info on Boulder City's Venture Crew, as they're a shooting crew, and whether or not they can do it as a troop activity is up to them in my opinion, nothing stops interested people in coming out as individuals. I know that there is a gun show in town the week before the April shoot.
Thanks for all your input guys!
Hello again. What are the dates and locations for S. NV Appleseeds? PM me withe info, and I'll get it on the NV PVA website.
Tom
Here are the dates that I have seen
April 17 - 18, May 15 - 16,
October 16 - 17, and December 18 - 19
all at
Boulder City Rifle and Pistol Club
Boulder City, NV
I am signed up and I am curious based on the first response am I in a group of 1?
am I in a group of 1?
Hey Chiller,
1st, welcome to the forum! It's a working site, so don't be worried about volunteering for anything you can do....we all pitch in together here...
On Boulder City, they are currently showing 16 pre-regs so far, so I would expect at least 20 or so to be there......You folks are gonna have some really good instructors working with you out there this weekend, so be prepared to gain as much insight as you can...... @@) ..:..
Have a good one, and enjoy!! This is gonna be fun!! :) O0
LayloPro
If LayloPro is at the shoot . . . it's guaranteed to be fun. ;D
-fb
I have read through what I can on this forum and other sites. Can you give recomendations? I am curious what percentage of people shoot "rifleman" on their first appleseed? Any and all links or information are appreciated. I assume the majority of the work will be done with the .22LR? Should I bring anything else?
Heh!! FB, you're trying to give me a reputation, or something here..... ::) :)) ++)
After all, if it isn't fun, why on Earth would we want to be doing it?? %) ++)
Sadness, I will be dealing with double lines @ Corona, home of Cali's Happy Cows......"Poo generators", in Jr Birdman speak...... ^:)^ **)
But, end of next month, we are gonna be having a good time......NoNeva, here we come, outa Utah, of all places..... :sos: @) ++)
Chiller,
In regards to how many shoot RM their first AS, few......it's been done, and done well, but seldom...... :bow:
In reading thru the prep stuff, stretching your body for positions will help greatly, as will a proper pad(s) for prone work.....stay hydrated, and make sure you have an open mind about what the folks are showing you. :cool2:
a 22LR for starters is a great way to get your body (your platform) doing what it should be doing, w/o having to worry about a larger caliber blowing you out of position every shot......which will only frustrate you..... :-\
If you have a larger caliber to use when you begin doing a 4MOA group each & every time, go for it!! It is immensely satisfying to be able to do the same stuff w/ centerfire as you were with rimfire, only at longer distances......but trying to jump ahead of yourself is only going to get you down.....make your platform -work-, before you try the larger stuff..... it's the old "walk before you run" syndrome, only with your money keeping score.....last I checked, ammo keeps costing more.... :o >:(
45+ yrs of doing this in various formats, I thought I was "pretty good"...not the best by any stretch, but certainly adequate to protect & feed my family......had a lot of "knuckle-headed-ness" to work thru internally before I finally "got it"......Now, it has become 2nd sight, and a great internal part of me..... @@) ..:..
Gee, Rifle marksmanship, American Heritage, -and- a self-improvement course, all rolled up into one weekend......only it all gets better, the more you do it!! O0 ;) ..:..
I'll keep an eye on the AAR's, please make sure you post your thoughts and experiences.....we do read them, and they can help us make things better for you the next time....
Have a great time, I think you are gonna have a blast!!
LLP
Chillar,
Here is a good checklist of what to bring. http://www.appleseedinfo.org/pdf/what_to_bring_shoot.pdf (http://www.appleseedinfo.org/pdf/what_to_bring_shoot.pdf)
Clean and lube your 22lr. before the event. You will shoot more rounds in the course of an Appleseed than most folks shoot in a year.
A smoothly operating rifle will make the event more enjoyable.
Xeyed
How well does a Bolt Rifle work vs. a Auto loader?
Question confirming the COF
Stage 1 10 rounds Standing Possible score 50
Stage 2 2 rds/mag chg 3 rds then 5 rds Kneel/Sit Possible score 50
Stage 3 2 rds/mag chg 1 rds, 3rds then 4 rds Fast Prone Possible score 50
Stage 4 2rds/2rds/3rds/3rds Slow prone Possible score 50x2 (100)
210+ to qualify as rifleman?
On the qualification. Is it a one time sot on the weekend or is there more than one opportunity?
Quote from: chiller on April 15, 2010, 12:24:22 PM
How well does a Bolt Rifle work vs. a Auto loader?
Question confirming the COF
Stage 1 10 rounds Standing Possible score 50
Stage 2 2 rds/mag chg 3 rds then 5 rds Kneel/Sit Possible score 50
Stage 3 2 rds/mag chg 1 rds, 3rds then 4 rds Fast Prone Possible score 50
Stage 4 2rds/2rds/3rds/3rds Slow prone Possible score 50x2 (100)
210+ to qualify as rifleman?
That is correct. A semi auto is better for Stage 2 & 3 because the time is 55 & 65 seconds, but there have been many 210+ scores shot with bolt actions. You will have several opportunities to shoot the AQT.
Have fun this weekend. I'll the the Shoot Boss for the remander of the Boulder City shoots this year, look forward to meeting you.
Each time you shoot the AQT is it to qualify or is it for practice and only "the one" will count?
Chiller, just shoot the 210+ once during the weekend, on any of the grey AQT's presented, and you get the Rifleman credential.
To be eligible to become an instructor, you have to shoot the Rifleman score consistently.
Regarding bolt actions:
It can be done. It was done by the Army nearly 100 years ago with model 1903 Springfields, to these exact standards. It certainly speeds up your semi-auto shooting ability if you can run an AQT with a bolt-gun inside the time limit.
I have yet to do it with my Mosin Nagant (only bolt action I own), but I'm working on it. I can run it with any of my .22's, my AR or M14 though.
ETA: If you don't "make" it at Boulder City on the 17-18th (or you just enjoy Appleseeding), then come over to Kingman on May 29/30. I'll be running that shoot, and we'll have a known distance component that event later on Sunday. Actually get out to 400 or even 500 yards.
Help me understand what you mean by "instructor"? Is the to qualify to take additional classes? If so where are they taught?
Any and all information is appreciated.
What is the difference between the "Grey" AQT and the AQT "Quick and Dirty" AQT?
Hi Chiller,
I'll be the shoot boss down in Boulder City this weekend. There will be multiple opportunities to shoot a rifleman score over the weekend. We'll shoot at least one AQT on Saturday - more if time permits. (The "Quick and Dirty" AQT is gray in color, as opposed to other AQT target formats which are used with different distances, # of rounds, etc. - each for different purposes.) Sunday we'll be able to shoot it several times.
Look forward to seeing you.
Chris
Help me understand the qualification to "instructor" ?
After you qualify as "Rifleman" where do you go from there?
Quote from: chiller on April 15, 2010, 06:41:11 PM
Help me understand the qualification to "instructor" ?
After you qualify as "Rifleman" where do you go from there?
The world is your oyster.
You can help the organization save the nation as outlined here (http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_our_plan.html).
One way to do that is to be come an instructor as outlined here (http://www.appleseedinfo.org/instructors_compare.html).
But first, have the time of your life by attending an April Appleseed. Enjoy.
You may have some more folks showing up at the Boulder Appleseed. I let the NV PVA Board of Directors know about it, and they state they are 'shooters'. This will be interesting.
Tom
In order on the "grey" target
is there 1 target
2 Targets
3 targets
4 targets
All becoming smaller to represent distance?
http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart.com/?p=detail&pid=9&cat_id=0
Is this the target we qualify on?
Quote from: chiller on April 15, 2010, 10:24:21 PM
http://www.appleseedstore.flyingcart.com/?p=detail&pid=9&cat_id=0
Is this the target we qualify on?
yep
Is there a difference between the one I showed and the "grey" target?
Quote from: chiller on April 16, 2010, 01:34:02 AM
Is there a difference between the one I showed and the "grey" target?
no.
Quote from: chiller on April 15, 2010, 02:49:21 PM
Help me understand what you mean by "instructor"? Is the to qualify to take additional classes? If so where are they taught?
Any and all information is appreciated.
After shooting to the Rifleman standard, you have the opportunity to take what's called an "instructor boot camp" or IBC.
At the IBC, you learn the skills of HOW TO CREATE MORE RIFLEMEN. They are either 2 or 3 days long and don't involve shooting, but rather the skills to teach.
Any old schmoe can show up at an Appleseed, gobble down the knowledge, run to the range every weekend and practice, and become a Master-class High Power Competitor in about 2-3 months of competition. Or do something else on his own, meticulously, with his newly found rifle marksmanship knowledge. Yawn.
The ones who really figure out what they're about, however... choose the path of Isaac Davis. They choose to make their neighbors and countrymen into Riflemen.
Learning to shoot on your own is all well and good... but it doesn't teach you how to teach.
Appleseed teaches Riflemen how to create more Riflemen. And to instill a sense of heritage and purpose to those new Riflemen.
After an IBC, you are an "Instructor in Training" or IIT. Or, you can hit the "Appleseed Trail" cold as a new IIT, with the blessing of a full instructor who signs off on that after you have shot Rifleman score and attended two Appleseeds.
It takes a series of tests to progress to a "Red Hat" or full instructor, then to Shoot Boss, then to Senior Instructor (not many of these).
I compare myself now as a more seasoned Shoot Boss, to the instructor I was a year ago when I got my "Shoot Boss" credential... and while I could still effectively teach people back then... I'm a much better instructor now by leaps and bounds. From associating with my fellow instructors on this forum and participating in events with them, and learning from them. I've had AMAZING insights into sling usage or body positioning after dwelling on questions that shooters ask me that I don't have an immediate answer for... only to realize the answer at the range a couple weeks later and then apply that knowledge to MY shooting (and save it away for future instruction purposes).
The AMAZING thing about Appleseed... is the instructors all take the utmost pride in creating the most skilled shooters that they can. There is NO HOLDING BACK of anything by us. You go to a High Power Match or similar environment and folks will help the new guy out for awhile, until he crosses a certain performance threshold. Then they clam up because you're a threat to their competitiveness. Learning is more difficult once you reach mere competency, rather than when you push the envelope.
However: you have to have the skill yourself as a Rifleman before you attempt to teach others.
If, after a couple Appleseeds, you are stuck and can't get over the skill-hump, there are "Rifleman boot camps" or RBC's. These are week-long intensive sessions that merge parts of the IBC into an extended Appleseed range session to pull that Rifleman score out of you by hook or crook, and to find the inner instructor in you and motivate it to action as well. At the end of an RBC, there's typically an Appleseed the following weekend where the RBC graduates work as Instructors in Training to demonstrate their skill in teaching.
Lots of learning opportunities in Appleseed.
The thing that made me originally chase the Instructor hat?
Anyone can pick up a rifle and run the mechanics of it, putting holes in paper. Not everyone can teach it properly. I wanted to learn how to teach 30 Riflemen at a time. How to make them improve each time to the line, how to make them reach inside themselves when the wind is blowing targets up and everyone else at the range quits... except the Appleseeders...
My first AAR from my October 2007 event as a shooter on the line:
QuoteI attended an Appleseed shoot.
I learned a lot about shooting a rifle for real. I will never again shoot from a bench. I am the bench. After this class, I feel truly that I own my rifle. I became so much more familiar and gained ownership over it.
I learned six steps to firing a shot, and how to exploit them to fit me. I learned how to acquire a natural point of aim. I learned to do these things while standing, kneeling, sitting and in prone.
I learned to to use a proper rifle sling. I learned how to optimally use a shooting jacket for peak accuracy.
A quick summary of the weekend:
We all met at the smallbore range at Ben Avery at about 8:30 Saturday morning. Fred gave us a bit of history on his Appleseed program, as well as a series of history lessons regarding the events of April 19th, 1775. We set in to shooting at the "redcoat" target: A 4-sillhouette target, red in color, scaled for 100, 200, 300 and 400 yard distances. The final target was a 1" square representing the size of a headshot at 250 yards. We were told to load 13 rounds and to fire 3 rounds per sillhouette, with a final single shot for the head, from the prone position.
The first time I shot this target, I could only keep all three rounds in the 100 yard target. I would get 1 or 2 rounds per the other sillhouettes, and I missed the headshot.
After firing this target, Fred took us down the path of the rifleman. A lot of information was soaked up by all parties. We started with the prone position and worked our way "up" from the ground, going to sitting/kneeling and finally to standing. As we worked these positions we fired at different targets, all based on 100/200/300/400 yard accuracy.
After firing about 60 rounds from my M1A I started getting a lot of "out of battery" conditions. I hurried making my reloads for this event and as a result I ended up with excessive case lube left on the brass, and walnut dust mixed with it. Dirty chamber, dirty brass, bad feeding. I also noticed my ARMS#18 mount got shot loose again, despite previously putting locktite on the receiver screw.
I set the M1A aside and continued shooting with my Marlin .22. My first AQT (army qualification target) score was a 171. 250 is the top score, and a 210 or higher will earn you an "attaboy" in the form of a rifleman's patch from Fred.
I left the first day with a lot of knowledge as well as some frustration at my M1A. I stopped off at Sportsman's Warehouse to buy some factory .308 in order to evade my dirty chamber problem. Once home, I stripped and cleaned my rifle and also removed the scope mount.
Day two dawned with some mildly sore muscles, but an eagerness to get that "attaboy" patch. Hey, you put a challenge in front of me and I want to beat it. That's just who I am.
We arrived at the range at 8AM and noticed that the public range was closed. We started to set out targets and found out why. The wind was up. It would hit our target backers and they would explode into splinters. 2x2 posts shattered like kindling. Half of our target stands were destroyed instantly.
We stepped back and examined the situation. The wind was from behind the targets, so we took our remaining targets and shortened their legs. With the extra wood, we fashioned tent stakes and rammed these into the colichi-infested ground, then tied the targets to the stakes. This gave them added rigidity in the wind. As a result, we only lost 2-3 more target stands the rest of the day.
While we were busy building targets, many rifles were left out in the swirling dirt and dust. Including mine. Actions open. Argh. My M1A receiver looked like a piece of heavy grit sandpaper. The fresh lube from last night's cleaning just attracted all the possible rocks, grit and dust it could. Back to the marlin .22 again. At least all that expensive retail .308 could hold down my shooting mat.
We did various drills this day and shot at all sorts of targets. We shot the redcoat a couple of times, the short AQT "green" target, one of those stars like at the fair, and a couple of AQT's. I shot a 179 and a 205 (argh!).
One last opportunity for the AQT at about 5PM. Final AQT of the day for me: 217.
I met some good people, and gained intimate knowledge of my rifle. Too bad it's just a marlin .22, but even being a .22, I now know I can be extremely effective with it. It began to feel like an extension of my body by Sunday afternoon. The sling was a perfect length, the optics were right on, the ammunition was true, the magazines functioned flawlessly.
I have new goals for myself over the next couple of months:
1. Pass the AQT with the following rifles:
---a. M1A Scout
---b. Mosin Nagant 91/30 (I ordered 30 5rd stripper clips from Numrich)
---c. Winchester 94 (this will be tricky, but entertaining)
---d. my as-yet unbuilt AR-15
2. Get a "red hat." Instructor credentials for Appleseed.
Any one in AZ wanna shoot battle rifle?
My knowledge now, truly eclipses my knowledge back then... makes me wonder what all is rattling around in Fred, Nickle, JB and The Guy's heads.
I figure I'll stick around here and find out. ;)
AZ Red,
now -that's- a good story!! O0 ;) O0
Out here in "feel good Cali", we also speak about, and "embrace" the power of self improvement that comes with an Appleseed......
I am continually amazed at the focus folks can put down on the ground when they have that sort of "challenge" placed before them......while we do have a few who fold, and run off in the sunset, most folks who come to an AS, are there for the distance......
My kinda folks...... 8)
and, I suspect, yours as well...... O0
Chiller, I would suspect that when you arrive this Saturday, you will begin to find out that the folks who show up for these events, yourself included, are a particular "type" of person......
We usually call these folks: "Americans"......"Citizens"......"Patriots".....
And, since I know the folks you will be learning from, I can honestly say that you will probably have more fun than you can remember having in a long time......you will be tired, sore, dirty, and somewhat sunburned and sandblasted; but on Monday morning, you will be wishing you could go back to the range, to do this some more...... O0 :~ ..:..
My guarantee on it...... ;)
Be well, all.
LLP
Very good AAR. I guess we will see how the weekend runs. Need to put together a few items to make sure I am good to go.
I assume we will have time to confirm our 25m zero? I have my 25 yard zero.
25yd to 25m = 7 ft difference....you should be good to go.....
And lots of opportunity to verify & confirm, starting out.....the 1st RedCoat target (13 shots) will give you a chance to show us your best shooting, as you walk in the door.......do the best you can!
After that, instruction begins......
Watch, absorb, assimilate, modify as needed.....
And -have fun-!! ;)
You're in good hands there.
LLP
gettign rested up and ready to go.
OK Chiller,
Now you can mosey up north to the Gardnerville, NV Appleseed (May 29 - 31) and show us what you learned. O0
-fb
I greatly appreciate the offer. That being said I have a prior commitment to go get schooled by some of the players in my discipline. I did have a great time and will put together a AAR and give my thoughts on the event.
All in all, a positive event.
Quote from: chiller on April 19, 2010, 12:21:42 AM
I greatly appreciate the offer. That being said I have a prior commitment to go get schooled by some of the players in my discipline. I did had a great time and will put together a AAR and give my thoughts on the event.
All in all, a positive event.
Well, just in case, we'll save a spot on the line for you anyway!
-fb
Making sure I understand everybody who was there.
Chris..Shoot Boss
Trebble...Instructor in Training
Desertrat...Instructor...(Not sure on the level)
Who else who posts on the forum was there?
Quote from: featherblue on April 19, 2010, 12:27:50 AM
Quote from: chiller on April 19, 2010, 12:21:42 AM
I greatly appreciate the offer. That being said I have a prior commitment to go get schooled by some of the players in my discipline. I did had a great time and will put together a AAR and give my thoughts on the event.
All in all, a positive event.
Well, just in case, we'll save a spot on the line for you anyway!
-fb
Were you there?
Quote from: chiller on April 19, 2010, 12:29:12 AM
Making sure I understand everybody who was there.
Chris..Shoot Boss
Trebble...Instructor in Training
Desertrat...Instructor...(Not sure on the level)
Who else who posts on the forum was there?
I don't post much, but I was there. DaveF
Was everybody else a "shooter"?
Charlie is Xeyed on the forums. Dad is RangeRat.
It was a great shoot. Thanks for coming out guys!
Chris_H should have the official AAR up in a few days.
How many of you will I see in May?
Hi all,
I've posted the initial After Action Report over here:
http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13248.0 (http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=13248.0)
Chiller, DaveF,
It was nice to meet you both! Thanks again for making it.
Chris
One and all, it was a pleasure meeting you. I enjoyed my first Appleseed and hope to be able to make other Appleseeds in the future. I will work on my standing stage.....
IS aything happening on the 15-16th shoot?
Boulder shows a shoot on the 15th and 16th. is this going to happen? Can anybody confirm? :sos:
Chiller,
Confirming Boulder City shoot this weekend.
From the look of the pre registrations s looks like good turnout is expected.
Got an excellent shoot boss coming in for the weekend.
Plus the local faces you met last time.
Hope you can make it to the event.
We will be there.
DesertDog, Xeyed, Trebleshooter:
I'll be in Vegas with the GF for Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun, for some non-Seeding fun. Haven't seen DD since Boulder City about a year ago, and I don't think I've run into Xeyed or Trebleshooter before. I've got this weekend pretty well allocated so I can't come by and work the event, but I'd like to drop by for an hour or so, just to watch the crew in action. I almost never get to see other Shoot Bosses work, and I love picking up new ideas and perspectives.
You guys mind if I stop by for a spell? I'll stay out of the way or maybe help out with some 1:1 coaching on the line for a bit.
trying to figure out if I should show up for Sunday?
Intended to say in that I can only show up on Sunday is there any issue with me doing that?
"Sunday only" shooters can be a drag on the instructor resources if they are novice Appleseeders. We accommodate anyone who comes as best we can, but 1st time Sunday only shooters tend to be constantly behind the curve.
If you're doing your 7th step homework (the REAL purpose of Appleseed) and coming with a new shooter, then you're doing him/her a disservice by bringing them on Sunday as their first day.
Since you have been to an Appleseed before, then the call is up to you if you are coming alone. If you feel you have mastered the Saturday material, then come for Sunday only to hit the AQT grind. Otherwise, you'll probably get more out of it by hitting Saturday as a 1-day shooter.
You ARE bringing someone with you, aren't you? &)
I don't mind if you swing by AZ!
Love to meet other 'seeders. ;D
Quote from: AZRedhawk44 on May 11, 2010, 07:28:34 PM
"Sunday only" shooters can be a drag on the instructor resources if they are novice Appleseeders. We accommodate anyone who comes as best we can, but 1st time Sunday only shooters tend to be constantly behind the curve.
If you're doing your 7th step homework (the REAL purpose of Appleseed) and coming with a new shooter, then you're doing him/her a disservice by bringing them on Sunday as their first day.
Since you have been to an Appleseed before, then the call is up to you if you are coming alone. If you feel you have mastered the Saturday material, then come for Sunday only to hit the AQT grind. Otherwise, you'll probably get more out of it by hitting Saturday as a 1-day shooter.
I would have to let the other instructors call if they think I will be a drag. They have a better perspective of me as a student than I have of myself as a student.
Chillar,
Since you have already been to a shoot you were already exposed to the fundamentals. You certainly would not be a drag. I think that AZRedhawk44 was referring to first time Sunday shooters. You know that a lot of material is covered on Saturday. It's tough to jump in the middle and keep up.
Sundays are typically, less talkin and more shootin days. So if you schedule only permits you make it Sunday, don't worry. We'll find spot on the line for you and make the best use of the time that we have.
Any day you can spend among riflemen is a good day.
trying to figure out if I just come out to shoot?
Chiller,
If you can only make Sunday, show up by with as many friends as you can bring whether they've been to an AS or not. The instruction will not be as good as Sat, but we will put an instructor on them or go to another bay and and run the Sat instruction with them.
Registration had closed last night. I am on the wait list and I guess we will see if it goes through.
Might have to show up as a walk on for Sunday.
We'll be running 2 bays. There will be plenty of room.
Has anyone from the LV PVA signed up? I've promoted this shoot within the organization, and wondering about getting through to them. You can PM me if you're more comfortable answering that way- sometimes 'shaming' shooters is an effective tool.
Tom
PMs sent.
It was a pleasure to meet more people and to move the process forward. I am looking forward to reading a full AAR
QuotePMs sent.
I hope the answers were helpful.
Tom