I tell you what. Websites like this sure make it clear that we have ALOT of growing room still in GA.
Anybody ever heard of this range?
http://www.rbgc.org/index.htm
or any others from this site?
http://www.gssa.com/Ranges/clubs_ranges.htm
I started looking over the gssa to find matches to compete in. Then I found those ranges. Seems like low-hanging fruit to me. Any of yall members?
J
I plan to shoot in a match at Riverbend gun club in the next few weeks. It is about 60 miles north of me. That range has been in the back of my mind for an Appleseed shoot. Though it is about $900 fee to join and $600 annual dues. Although weekend competitions can be joined by anyone for about 20-25 bucks. I will start to work my magic and get to know some people up there. I already know a few and I think they would be ecstatic about an Appleseed.
I don't know if I should post this somewhere else on the board, but I got an email from a friend who actually turned me on to Appleseed even though he hasn't attended one yet. He asked me if I would be willing to hold an Appleseed with his Boyscout troop for a weekend. I thought this was a wonderful idea and could probably get the message to a lot of young boys 12+ roughly, but also to many parents. I know there is a lot of work to be done and would have to coordinate with some other IIT's so we would have all our bases covered, but this gives me some goals to work toward.
Tell me more about the match you're attending.
Also, start a new thread about the boy scout thing. Otherwise we're about to have a HUGE hijack.
J
I don't know exactly which one I will attend. I am going to go with a guy off the M14tfl forum from GA.
They have several matches, but a few interest me. http://www.rbgc.org/calendar/2010/201002Feb.html
The schedule pretty much follows the same format throughout the years.
The HP 80 Shot, the HP 600x3 and the HP 100 Reduced. I think the 100 reduced is somewhat similar to an Appleseed Cource:
Course of fire for this match:
Stage 1 Ten Minute sighting in period
Stage 2 10 shots standing, slow fire
Stage 3 10 shots sitting, rapid fire
Stage 4 10 shots prone, rapid fire
Stage 5 20 shots prone, slow fire
This is what is called the 50 shot National Match Course.
I really don't know many details, that is why I have been hesitant to go. But I feel that I have a pretty good all around understanding of the rifle and all the shooting concepts and want to get my feet wet. I haven't shot long range yet, but am anxious to do so.
I know its a haul for you, but I would love to have you along whenever you get a weekend. Its an all day thing, safety in the morning, some shooting, some target scoring, etc. everyone has to do a little bit of everything I believe. Hope to have some experience in one of the matches in the next few weeks and start working my way into the regulars group and then present them with the Appleseed idea. If you get one of the regulars their to come along to an Appleseed, then he may take it upon himself to offer one at their range. And you never have to invite yourself that way, that may be the secret to this.
I shoot at this range, Riverbend, about once a month. I love it. My friend is a member and has been for years. We primarily hang out at the multi-purpose rifle ranges. One is 100 yards and the other is 200 yards. He and I attended our first Appleseed a few months back in Toccoa and had a great time. We talked about how cool it would be for Appleseed to come to Riverbend and be so close to Atlanta. I'll direct him to this thread.
I say we put together all the available instructors and go compete in the garand\springfield\VM match on the weekend of 2 May in a friendly competition seeing how there is nothing going on for GA that weekend. Of course, things may change.
What do ya'll think about a little representing?
jon
Sounds good to me. We can camp out for the night and shoot Sat and Sun. Gotta practice now
What I was thinking was to have as many RWVA faces at this particular shoot. Some of these people are prime candidates for future instructors. Either they are involved in a hobby that is a dying art, or they are honing their skills as Riflemen. If we can put together a makeshift "GA RWVA rifle team" we may have more of an impact if there are several of us there. Also we can stretch out our own skills a little.
A kind of "mass communicatin". Especially if we just happen to wear our adorned jackets and fancy RWVA instructor hats. Generally, that gets peoples attention. And then the questions follow.
Also seeing how it is a sanctioned CMP match, we may just end up with a little promotion from the CMP. Hard to guess, but I'd say at least a possibility.
I need time to plan my end so...
...what say ya'll?
jon
For practice, there's also a cmp garand match near Bremen on March 13. I didn't want all the competition from you big boys, but I'm planning to be there. Oh, and it's also cheap: 10 frn per match for 3 matches...maybe one is M1Carbine.
FF: send link.
To all: I love this idea. The RWVA GA Rifleman. I say we do it.
J
I'm in lets do it. What is the info for the one in Bremen?
I can't make the one in bremen. Too short of time. But the one in Dawsonville, Ga. I will be at. I'm sure the other Jolly boy will be there too.
Jon
Count me in on this one. What a great idea.
I can't find anything about the Bremen shoot on the web. But I've got a paper flier. It is March 13, and it's called the
Inaugural Civilian Marksmanship Program Rifle Match
(presumably that means inaugural with respect to the range, which is the West Georgia Youth Range Association range in Bremen, namely, this one: http://www.wgts.info/directions.html)
As I recall, there were three matches, 30 rounds each, 10 slow fire standing, 10 rapid fire prone, and 10 slow fire prone at 100 yards with a 3moa circular bullseye (10 points). First two were Garand or vintage militiary and the last one was M1 carbine.
I think it started fairly early 8 or 9 am, but I can double check on that.
If you can, post the details here. Or scan the flyer.
Thanks,
J
Inaugural
Civilian Marksmanship Program Rifle Match
West Georgia Youth Range Association
(Landfill Rd-Bremen, GA)
March 13, 2010
10 AM EST ***time above was off; this is the correct time***
Rifle Matches Include
M1 Garand
1903 Springfield/Vintage Rifle
M1 Carbine
(Then there's a map: Take exit 11 off of I-20 and
go north on US 27 to US 78 in Bremen.
Turn left (West) on US 78 and go 5 miles to
Landfill Rd on the left. Down there is the
WGYRA Rifle Range)
Please Contact: Leon Rutherford 770-328-0167 or Don Rutherford 770-876-9981.
That's exactly what's on my flier (which I got from Leon at the CMP store in
Anniston) except for a couple CMP seals and the map, modulo typos, which I
hope aren't there).
P.S. I went out with the Garand today for the first time. It was love at first shot.
Actually, I've got a better way to describe it: It was love at first sight adjustment.
Hmmm, I wonder what the course of fire is. And the cost. Guess I'll have to call for more info.
It'll be hard for me to make it to that one with the new baby, but I'll try. I hope others will too. I bet we could recruit some good instructors.
J
So, we got a new baby coming on line? Congratulations.
I think I can answer your questions:
Each match consists of:
30 rounds in 3 strings. First 10 standing, slow fire.
Second 10 standing to prone, rapid fire (50 seconds I think, but no npoa shifts)
Third 10 prone, slow fire.
It's a bullseye target at 100 yards with a 3 MOA bullseye for 10 points.
First two matches are Garand or vintage (pre WWII) rifle.
Last match is all M1 Carbine.
(Anything else you want to know on the course of fire? There may not be a transition on the rapid fire string, but I think I got the rest correct from what Leon told us.)
Cost 15 frn per match or 30 frn for all three (sounds like a pretty good volume discount to me).
Maybe if I had a m1 carbine. I'll probably only do 1 round if I go. Thanks for the update.
So I shot the 100 yd comp at Riverbend Gun Club this weekend and was very impressed. That club has absolutely top notch facilities and great people. I overheard several people mentioning Appleseed, but was trying to act a bit covert and not run my mouth about Appleseed the whole day. I shot with my M1A, my shooting partner was shooting a supermatch and it was pretty looking. I think this club would be welcome to hosting an Appleseed after I become a regular, there are also several people who I think would thoroughly enjoy becoming teachers for Appleseed.I outshot my partner on the line in the first 3 rounds, standing slow fire, sitting rapid fire, and prone rapid fire. But he beat me in the slow fire 20 rds prone. That should have been one of my best targets, but about 15 of my shots were an inch left and had a decent spread in the 7-8-9 rings and it was a scaled down 600 yd target. I shot 423 out of 500, I think I placed about 5-6 out of 40 or so shooters. I was recognized for having an extremely high score for a first time shooter and won 5 bucks, a third of my entry fee. I hope to place in the top 3 next month. That was the first time I have actually shot a target at any range over 25 yds, so I was very pleased. I hope to build a relationship with the organizers and suggest having an Appleseed at their club. They can easily host 100-200 shooters depending on how much of the club they are willing to rope off for us.
Oh, I did recruit one guy. He had bought an M1A about 2-3 weeks prior, and hadn't even squeezed the trigger on it. He had no experience shooting anything more than a .22 and had hardly done that. He is booked this weekend, but hopes to make it to the next Appleseed and was very excited about it.
Many thanks to the Appleseed program for teaching me so much.
Good job. 6th out of 40 first time out is nice.
SoM
Well done, Col. Remind that guy about Augusta on the 20,21st. And next time wear your shirt :)
J
I will send him a text with some info. I brought my t-shirt along, but was hesitant. I don't know how warm it got down in the sticks on your side of Atlanta, but I don't think there were any t-shirts exposed on Saturday. I think it was around 27 when we got to the range at 8 and finally broke 40 around lunch. Oh, and they shoot under the covered range there, so no sun on your back. I was also hesitant to wear the shirt, I liked the write up someone did on the our forum about going in and not saying a word about Appleseed, feel them out and build a relationship. Believe me, that is hard when you are passionate about something, but I also know how annoying it is for the new guy to be telling others how they are wrong. My shooting partner told me I held my breath for 33 seconds before taking the shot, I KNOW that it was closer to 3-4 seconds. I closed my eyes and took a few deep breaths and then refocused to take my shot during my sighting period. I almost got irritated by the guy telling me things I was doing, primarily my breathing, but I knew what I was actually doing so it was ok. Tho he did compliment form, follow through, and cadence, so at least he wasn't all criticizing.
I am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about.
QuoteI am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about
That is the most profound statement I've heard on this forum.
Oh yeah, good shooting Barret!
Quote from: jollynator on March 01, 2010, 11:18:35 PM
QuoteI am totally open to criticisms from others, as long they no what they are talking about
That is the most profound statement I've heard on this forum.
Oh yeah, good shooting Barret!
Probably would have been a bit more profound had I used the correct spelling of the word know. I know that statement may have come off as a bit arrogant, which I like to think I am not, but it is hard to stay cool when someone continues to give you advice on one of the few things you know you are doing right.
Here's a (perhaps) relevant AAR from a little range in West Georgia that might be of interest:
We were scheduled to start at 8AM, but I don't think any of us campers were expecting it to be 22 degrees overnight, and talk about herding cats...Safety briefing started around 8:45. I gave a brief talk on Fred's plan to save America. (I had planned to continue that during lunch, but when it came to it, I guess I was hungry, anxious to get the instruction/shooting done in the afternoon, etc. and I forgot.)
Irregularity: We had (really) no shoot boss, but relied on various participants to bring things. The wire-ties and chamber flags didn't show up from their appointed suppliers. Fortunately, various others had a supply of wire-ties which we used both for securing target backboards and (with a loop) for chamber flags in rimfire rifles---worked ok. Some people also had our usual orange chamber flags (though see below) and we had enough big bore chamber flags to go around...in spite of the fact that we had at least 4 HK91's (one suppressed-way cool!), a Mosin-Nagant, an M1A, a SIG, a couple AK's, a Garand, a FAL, and at least one SKS. Somehow one of my RSOs missed that the SIG's orange chamber flag was pushed into the open bolt area without the end being actually in the chamber---there was a live round in there. Upon next prep period, the guy went to dryfire, and his SIG went bang. This was arguably the biggest glitch of the day (more below), but muzzle was downrange, discipline was adequate on the line (nobody doing cartwheels downrange etc.) so the ND had no disastrous consequence.
I was line boss the whole day. The first time I've done that at all. Needless to say, I'm whispering today. I should have let one of my RSOs do some of the yelling.
Here's a line boss question: When that ND happened, I stopped the prep period, had everybody make their rifles safe and back off the line. Then I had the RSO's recheck the line. The shooters seemed a bit irritated to have to get back up out of their prone positions etc.---a lot of 'em weren't so limber I think. But was it overkill for me to do that? Should I have just continued the prep period as if the ND was no big deal? (To me it was a BIG deal. After all, we were just out in the middle of the range for instruction in front of the muzzle of that chambered SIG, and that was the only way that immediately came to mind to make it seem like a big deal. The shooters seemed to me a lot more lax on such things.)
We only shot one real AQT. It was started around 3:15. I had more planned, but a significant number of shooters were already off the line, and everybody looked shot. I think I wore them out with black squares. Also, I think the high cost of ammo was weighing them down---a couple shooters ran out.
We had a couple rifleman scores (high was 226) and two or three more knocking on the door (200+ range). Those guys should definitely qualify come April in Toccoa, if they work at it between now and then.
Biggest negative: The 25 yard line of shooters ended up on what I thought was a slight downward incline, and I had shot at least a dozen rounds from each position the previous Friday evening, so I thought it would work out. During the shoot, however, that downward incline seemed to cause real trouble for the shooters in prone. In fact, at one stage, a shooter wanted me to demo with his loop sling and rifle and, being more tired I guess, the incline did put a crunch on my back and seemed to make it difficult to get the muzzle up out of the turf and onto target level. It was definitely an issue.
Second negative: General discipline was a little more lax than at a usual Appleseed. I had shooters touching rifles (taking them on and off the line) when they were told not to do so. Most shooters didn't do that, but there were a few exceptions. The RSO on that side of the line, didn't seem bothered (and he's actually a more experienced IIT than I), so I didn't say anything. In addition there wasn't really a shoot boss to consult, and no general safety rules seemed to have been violated. I believe some of those guys were ex-military and just didn't like the idea of someone saying they shouldn't touch their rifle.
Big positive (for me): Most of the HK91 crowd came a long way to get there. Apparently it was a kind of family get together, some coming form Mississippi (driving over 600 miles) and others from Tennessee. The HK91 family kept their shot AQTs close, so I don't know what they were doing as far as scores.
OK, now here's the real interesting part for this forum: The land-owner/host seems enthusiastic about letting us use his place on a regular basis for real Appleseed shoots. It was a beautiful setting. He also supplied us with T-posts, wire, and 4'x4' plastic sign backboards; we were set up for 36 shooters though we only had 20. We set the range up adjacent to his fish pond. I doubt that is the place where the range should stay (for various reasons outside of safety), but he was willing to level out the shooting area, and we apparently have tractor resources to do so. Probably it would be better to set up a range somewhere else on the property, and he was willing for that as well. There were several other possible locations I considered on the property, but without any land moving, I chose the one we used for safety considerations alone. Does somebody (SOM, Appleacious?) want to go out there with me sometime and see if we can pick out a good spot that will be agreeable to everybody involved? Then we can move some dirt and start a West Georgia/East Alabama Appleseed. Next weekend, when some of us are shooting in Bremen might be a good time, or we can just work it with a trip to the CMP.
First question. What's the context of this? Is this an Appleseed?
J
Quote from: franklinfarmer on March 07, 2010, 11:40:13 AM
Here's a (perhaps) relevant AAR from a little range in West Georgia that might be of interest:
We were scheduled to start at 8AM, but I don't think any of us campers were expecting it to be 22 degrees overnight, and talk about herding cats...Safety briefing started ....
I think it might have been like what's called a "mini-appleseed." It was an informal event that I and another IIT put together for a group of guys we hang around with. We attempted to imitate Appleseed to the greatest extent we could, at least the marksmanship part. The objective was to prep the group for the Toccoa shoot in April which they plan to attend as a group. I'm not necessarily saying we were very successful in our imitation, but it was a fun day of shooting for most everyone there, and I figured you guys might be interested. Even if you're not interested, I figured you might be interested in the fact that the land-owner seemed to be open to having the location used for Appleseed shoots.
If you're wondering why I was there instead of at a real Appleseed, let me simply say that the group had decided to attend the April Appleseed in Toccoa and I had committed to helping them with the prep marksmanship event before I knew the schedule and that there was shoot in Toccoa the same weekend in particular. So, I didn't feel like I could/should back out on them.
One participant who had been to 4 Appleseeds mentioned to me that the instruction was "just like a real Appleseed, except for the history." Another mentioned that his shooting had improved greatly. So, it wasn't a total wash.
Sounds like a fun weekend, but the safety issues are a concern. Bring them to an appleseed and we'll teach 'em right.
J
FF,
Sounds like a great overall experience. I am not sure where the organization will draw a line between a Appleseed prep and a real Appleseed. I am assuming no forms were filled out for insurance. I am sure we are encouraged by Fred and others to take a friend or two out to the range and teach them some techniques, but I don't know where the line is drawn in such a gray area. I applaud you for putting something together at least as a clinic for other shooters. Obviously the safety concerns are the biggest thing, I don't think you were unreasonable to clear the line and check rifles in the safe position again, before possibly another not so well placed ND occurred.
I think SoM is in New Mexico this week, so you may not get any feedback from him for a few days.
Let me know if anything comes to fruition with the location, I would be glad to come out for a work day/weekend.
Hey that's an easy one :).
For it to be called an "Appleseed" it has to be approved by the main office and put on the official schedule. Other things go along with that, but that'll get you started. Also, it has to be led by a Shoot Boss.
What yall did was a really good day at the range, but it wasn't an Appleseed. That's ok, though. Appleseed is a great program, but it's not the only great program.
Here's a report on the West Georgia Youth Range shoot in Bremen. (And maybe Barret et al can give me some advice.)
They have a 200 yard rifle range, 3 or 4 pistol pits and a skeet range. It's brand new; this was the first event ever held there. It's located next to a transfer station/landfill. It could certainly handle an Appleseed shoot. I was invited to join their club WGYR Association. It's 200 frn up front and 100 frn/year. I also met a guy from River Bend (clearly one of the best shooters at this Bremen shoot), and he said I should come up to River Bend (more below). As I recall, River Bend is (more) expensive, so here are my questions for feedback:
1. Should I join a shooting club? I've never been in one, and I can shoot in my yard or on a nearby deer lease. But it seems like the cost for this one is reasonable, though it's just starting out, and I don't know how much expertise is available, but they seem like nice people. If so, would it be worth checking our River Bend first?
2. Should I pursue club membership in relation to establishing a venue for Appleseed? (This really seems like the main motivation, though as mentioned in the post above, there is probably another site 15 miles West which I'm pretty confident we will be able to use.) Should I check on the possibilities for Appleseed at WGYR up front?
3. How important is this to my shooting skills? They guy from River Bend emphasized that they have all the best shooters at their club, and seemed to suggest that just by being in the presence of their greatness my shooting would improve. (I must say that he did place second in both Garand and M1 Carbine, so he is obviously a good shooter.) He asked what the letters on my orange hat stood for, and made a little fun of their being no Revolutionary War Vets. Then he said he didn't mean to put down the Appleseed project, but that I would learn a lot more about shooting by coming to River Bend.
I guess those are my main questions for you guys. Now a short report on CMP Garand shooting:
I won't comment much on my performance. With the Garand I was consistently in the 230 out of 300 range with the winners shooting close to perfect. There were some good shooters there. It seems like that shooting has a very different philosophy; very "sportish." Lots of fancy gear, leather shooting jackets, rubber coated mats, padded gloves, spray on ingredients (to help you stick to everything, to blacken your sights etc.), required sighting scopes, calling out the location of each shot after it's fired. Everything was done at 100 yards. Essentially no cadence allowed. You do 10 slow-fire prone, one round at a time in roughly 10 minutes. (And they really take a minute for each shot.) Same with standing...except here is what I found the weirdest thing: You can use a sling in prone, but you *cannot* use your sling at all in standing. The reason? It improves your score if you use the sling. (Why doesn't the same apply in prone? Beats me. I think it's just senseless sporting rules.) So the standing was pretty much a wash for me. They use a totally different hold---hand backwards, supporting arm close in on hip. I did get some 10 point shots standing, but they were few and far between, and I'd say you needed to get on the order of 4 or 5 to be competitive with most of the rest 9s.
With the M1 Carbine I did better. I think I was third or so out of about 12 with a score of 330 out of 400. Though the winner was in the high 370s. (They let you shoot with magazines (5+5), so I could shoot in cadence once the spotter told me I was hitting the tens.)
At the end I asked a couple of them what they recommended in terms of increasing my skills. They guy from River Bend, immediately wanted to see my rifle. He started at the trigger guard and said that I needed to bend it in to hold the receiver more securely in the stock. Then he said I need to tighten the rear sight; then trim some wood off part of the stock to make a space for thermal expansion which makes the wood on top push on the receiver. Then he got to the front sight, and both our mouths dropped open. The gas plug was about 1.5 turns loose and the front sight was flapping. I had tightened it when I cleaned it about a week before, but I guess they loosen up pretty easily. He said that would be about 40 points right there. If that estimate is correct, that would put me in the 270 out of 300 range, which would probably have been respectable, but as I say, I think the winner was in the 290s.
It was fun overall, but I'm not sure I want to spend a lot of time shooting those kind of competitions. I really like shooting in cadence, and I can't figure out why anyone would want to shoot standing without a sling. (Though a year ago when I attended my first Appleseed, I couldn't figure out why anyone would want to use a sling at all!)
I'd be interested in any and all comments/feedback.
As far as the competition goes, they had to quit allowing slings in standing a long time ago because it was the only way to make it competitive. Everybody was shooting the same perfect scores til they did that (essentially). So basically the real competitors are just competing during that stage, every other stage is just score gravy. Novices compete on every stage of course since none of them are gimmes at the novice level. I remember I was flabbergasted when I first found out about that, too.
Pretty much everything that guy told you about the garand sounds right not me. Sometimes you have to ping a blemish into the threads of the gas plug to keep it from walking out.
I like the idea of an appleseed in West GA off I-20. Thats a big excuse to hit up Anniston.
J
FF,
Glad to hear you got to get out and get some shooting in this weekend. I would consider joining the club you mentioned at those rates. If you get in now, your fees may stay lower than others in the future. Also, you may be on a board or an elder in the club before long and can have a strong voice in requesting an Appleseed at the club. You asked about joining RBGC, you do realize its 900 first year and 600 /yr thereafter. It is an hour north of me, and I think you are about an hour from me. So a two hour trip. Competitions start at 8 on the weekends, so you would have to be on the road by 6. May not be a big deal to you, but that would be a little harsh for me. Their weekend shoots are open to the public, and cost 15 to enter. Seems fair enough, I think I will be a weekend shooter and assuming I got 10 x a year, i spent 150, I am well below their 600 fee. I am pretty sure members pay to shoot in the competitions, but they may not. I think between Appleseeds and some fun shooting comps, 20 or so weekends a year is a realistic expectation between the two.
As for the guy saying you will learn a lot at RBGC, I am sure you may pick up a thing or two, but I can guarantee you, you are getting 100x more out of an Appleseed weekend. Their lessons were brief and not great detail. You may pick up tips and pointers from fellow shooters watching you, which may help your shooting. Personally, I think it would be good to get a hold of a location mid state and out west, exactly where you are talking about. RBGC, does have the nicest shooting facilities I have yet to see. I have heard many people say they haven't seen anything like it out of a private range, it compares to the military in its size and attention to detail.
To answer your questions directly
1)I guess it is your call on joining a club. Those rates are fair, if you want a community of gun shooters to network with outside of Appleseed. Although, you have the land and the deer lease, so that is nice to. I like the competition of shooting against others, but I enjoy shooting by myself or with a friend on private land.
2) Pros and cons. Don't want to act like that is the only reason you want to be a member, but it would be nice to know up front if it is even plausible.
3) I think it is good for your shooting skills to be in a community of shooters where you can have mini competitions. Riverbend certainly has some great shooters, but most of the guys aren't trying to save a country using their shooting skills, by teaching others and learning the history aspect. I think several shooters at RB don't understand what our organization is about. I know a Creedmoor jacket, will help my shooting skills, but our old shooting jackets are a signature of our group and I like mine a lot. I received some comments regarding it when I shot at Riverbend. As for your skills, you have shot rifleman and have attended an IBC and taught your own mini Appleseed. That being said, you obviously understand the fundamentals of shooting, I think from here out it is practice and finding your zin aka shooters bubble.
As for the M1, I would recommend you go visit Ol' Hook in Bremen while he is still around. You will get out for a steal and have a fine rifle after he handles it.
DO NOT ping the THREADs of the barrel. Doing so will not help you, you will risk cross threading them after that and will still have a loose gas cylinder.
Take a small ball peen hammer and GENTLY ping the SPLINE RECEPTICLES on the barrel. If done with too much pressure, you will warp your bore in that area so go easy. And do it till the gas cylinder is somewhat difficult to slide on but not impossible. You can over do this.
All you want is the gas cylinder to not move after it is on the barrel. This basically prevents the front sight from moving and thereby changing your zero.
jon
yeah, what he said.
:cool2:
"He started at the trigger guard and said that I needed to bend it in to hold the receiver more securely in the stock."
Nope.
The trigger group holds the receiver in the stock by hooking into the bottom of the receiver. The round "tabs" on the trigger guard near the hinge lock into the receiver. The wooden stock is compressed when the trigger guard is locked into firing position. This compression of the wooden stock is what "tightens up" the receiver in the stock. If you are using your M1's original stock, I guarantee you that the wood is permanently compressed under the trigger guard because these rifles were stored for years with the trigger guards locked down. Try your same receiver and trigger group in a new, not a different, a NEW stock. You will find it difficult (perhaps VERY difficult) to close the trigger guard latch because that wood is not compressed yet. (You can also add thin wood veneer strips under the trigger group assembly on your orginal stock). It can make a big difference in accuracy!
If you get a new stock, or add the veneer strips, be sure to store the rifle with the trigger guard unlatched to prevent compressing the wood again.
Bending the trigger guard won't cure this problem, all that will do is make it more difficult to disassemble the rifle. You want it to be difficult to close, not to open!
The only reason I can think of to bend a trigger guard in that manner would be to prevent it popping open under recoil, and really only the locking "hook" should be bent to cure that.
(Edited to remove snarky comments about your #3 item above. You're way friendlier than me! !@#) )
So are we still going as a group the shoot in May? It would be nice to shoot full distance and to all get together outside of AS. I plan on being there and possibly camping on Saturday night. What say you?
Raymon
I'm putting it on my "definitely will try to" list. Which puts me at about 80% likelihood. (I have a supportive wife :) )
I'm probably 80% too.
Sorry, did I miss something? Which range are we talking about? RBGC or Bremen, I thought the Bremen shoot proposed was the one last weekend. I am planning on going to the field shoot in North Carolina on May 29, and possibly helping out at an Appleseed in the Southeast during the month. Post up what date and I will probably be on board.
I'm not real sure where the "May" idea came from, but I like it. Looks like May 8th is the HP 80 match and May 22nd for the HP 100 reduced match.
Which is better, Barrett?
J
It is at River Bend the link is Rifleman's Weekend (http://www.rbgc.org/GarandMatch/mainPage.htm). We can camp on site and get together not at a AS. Show them how us Appleseeders do it.
Raymon
I heard that rifleman's weekend is a blast and I would love to partake, but I think I got the vibe it is a Garand only event. I only have an M1A, so I am out. They shoot garands and any Military rifle, from ww2 and prior. I could be wrong and hope I am, but I heard them talking about this when I was up there and I don't think the M1A is one of the rifles you can shoot with.
Quote from: Col Barrett on March 15, 2010, 09:20:47 PM
I heard that rifleman's weekend is a blast and I would love to partake, but I think I got the vibe it is a Garand only event. I only have an M1A, so I am out. They shoot garands and any Military rifle, from ww2 and prior. I could be wrong and hope I am, but I heard them talking about this when I was up there and I don't think the M1A is one of the rifles you can shoot with.
I shot in the Rifleman's Weekend in 2008. You are correct.
The first day is a Garand match, split into as issue and modified Garands.
The second day is military vintage bolt action. I didn't go the second day; I don't have a military vintage bolt action.
A cool part of this is working rifle pits and pulling targets down to be scored. During slow fire, you're scoring between each shot. Everyone takes turns shooting and working the pits.
If you have a Garand, or you can beg, borrow, steal, or buy one, it's a lot of fun.
I have 2 Garands :o
J
Ok Ive just wrote it my date book :--- When it goes in my date book only an act of congress or an Appleseed can change it.
oh yeah jollynator (my brother) bought me a garand for my birthday so I can be in the cool guys club now. Wow what a brother !!! right
amateurs practice till the can do it right,
professionals practice till they cant do it wrong :wb:
salute
So it sounds like that Justin and Barrett are gonna be there. So who else is gonna be there? I was told that the Jolly boys are gonna make the trip so us locals should be there for sure.
Raymon
Quote from: jollymeister on March 15, 2010, 11:34:44 PM
Ok Ive just wrote it my date book :--- When it goes in my date book only an act of congress or an Appleseed can change it.
oh yeah jollynator (my brother) bought me a garand for my birthday so I can be in the cool guys club now. Wow what a brother !!! right
amateurs practice till the can do it right,
professionals practice till they cant do it wrong :wb:
salute
Please don't let CONGRESS affect your plans. They serve you, right?
J
I'd be going, but my sister-in-law was discourteous enough to schedule her wedding on the same day.
While the Rifleman's Weekend was scheduled first, I won't live to make the next one if I skip her weddding.
Hope everybody's getting ready. We need to have respectable scores. Like, you know, a sweep or something.
J
:---
FYI: for the garand match (which i assume everyone will be going to) They use the 200 yds SR target.
(http://www.pistoleertm.com/targets/pics/SR.gif)
The black portion is the 9,10,and X rings. It is 6.5 moa. (13 in. at 200 yds).
Looks like the 10 ring is just over half as wide as the 9. So that would make it close to (but under) 4 moa.
Start practicing. We can do very well if we start putting the rounds down range.
~~:)
And maybe the toccoa appleseed the week before would be a great place to run through a "practice" match. O0
Good call J, Dave and I were talking about the same thing. Dang 4 MOA for a 10 that will be fun. Who id going to Toccoa and the Rifleman's weekend? I am gonna be at both.
Darn tootin I'm gonna be there. Maybe if Jollymeister is willing, we can stay for Sunday so I can stretch out my M1903 the GF got me for my B-day!!! Hey, Meister, our other guitarist and drummer may come for Sunday too. They have bone stock M91/30 Russian and M24/47 Yugo Mauser rifles, respectively.
The drummer was at Hinesville back in the fall. I am working on getting him to another AS and grab a bucket but his schedule is a mother...
jolly
I hear those yugo mausers are pretty darn accurate, btw. Some call it the dark horse of the surplus market.
I'll be there in Toccoa as well as RBGC. I might have to get in early friday to practice at Toccoa. Started dry-firing again last night.
In principle, I can't make it to Toccoa; I've got another commitment that weekend on Charleston. If there's practicing to be done early Friday, however, I might should show up. Can Toccoa be made on the way to Charleston?
Also, is there are particular day/event we are planning on for RBGC? Friday night camping and shoot on Saturday, then go home? Or Sunday too, or what?
Also, I saw something about "modified" and some such on the application form. Does anybody know what that means? Does my "sprained" stock disqualify me?
Also, I'm guessing that spotting scopes are mandatory for this kind of shoot. I don't have one. Will some of you all be bringing one or more to share?
toccoa to greenville (I-85)
Greenville to I-26 via I-385
I think I-26 goes all the way to Charlestowne. :) It'd be a long day, though.
We're planning on the Rifleman's weekend on May 1. I'd like to camp out on friday night before. There's also a "cookout" saturday after the shooting, but I'd probably have to skip it to get back home at a reasonable hour. I don't plan on shooting sunday. looks like about half the people stay for sunday based on previous years.
I assume modified means bedded stock, trigger job, maybe scope? don't really know. proper garand match is as-issued. but there may be some things you can do to it and stay legal. Paging VAShooter....
Hopefully somebody can bring a spotting scope or two that we can share. Maybe we can get into separate groups to make that easier.
I have a spotting scope that we all can use. I could be able to camp on Friday night and will stay for Sunday to get the experience at KD.
The Garand Match requires an un-modified rifle. It cannot be bedded and the handguards cannot be anchored to the barrel. If you have a new stock the action can be as tight as you want as long as it's not bedded. Same thing with the handguards. Loose handguards will make a Garand inaccurate so you want them tight, but not tight with epoxy. The trigger should break cleanly at four pounds. The sights should move predictably. If you have one minute sights, you want them to move one minute each click. They should move easily enough so that you can adjust your sights without too much effort. You need to mark your "No wind zero" on your sight base so that you can always come back to center when you finish shooting. Always count off your elevation when you finish shooting. Don't think of 200 yards as "up two from one hundred yards." Think of two hundred yards as up eleven from zero, or whatever. Each range has a come-up from zero. That way if there is doubt in your mind, you can count back down to zero and back up to confirm your settings. Always bring your windage back to "No wind zero" as you come off the line. When you are ready to shoot you assess the conditions and put on whatever wind you think you need, knowing that it isn't being added to whatever you had on last relay.
Buy a spray can of sight black and blacken your sights before you shoot. It makes the sights stand out and prevents light from changing your point of impact.
Get a score book and start recording each shot when you practice. Write down anything important. (sun coming in from left moved my group 1/2 minute)( Sun went behind a cloud and I shot 1 minute high).
Remember the six steps. Breath, relax, squeeze and focus hard on the front sight.
Since the handguards should be tight, don't carry your rifle by the handguard or you will cause them to loosen.
If you shoot a bad shot or bad string, don't give up. Everyone else will shoot a bad shot too and most of them will quit trying. Put your best into each shot through the match and you will do well.
VAshooter
THANKS VA
:bow: 8)
J
Pretty sure modified also means that you can have a cheek riser of any kind on the rifle. I was told it would be a disqualifier for a match when I showed up for a shoot in Feb. I had a ace-bandage wrap around mine, with a mouse pad, nothing professional looking, for the record.
Prereg form for the Garand match:
http://www.rbgc.org/GarandMatch/2010/registrationformFill.pdf
I looked at the prereg form for the Match. It does have an option to choose the guy you want to shoot next to. Since we are less than 3 weeks out, I suggest we get the list of shooters who will be there and form a list.
No need in us being scattered all over the line if we don't have to.
Who's in? Add your name to the list.
1: jollynator
2: jollymeister
Who's in? Add your name to the list.
1: jollynator
2: jollymeister
3: Appalacious
I'm gonna be there.
I was refering to the list. If you register to be next to Appalacious, Appalacious next to me, and so forth, we will have all of us right there amongst each other. The line is large enough for 125 shooters at a time. Thats a long way to be spread out. I'd rather us not be spread out so.
Of course, it matters not. I just think we should stick together. The effect of us all together on the line may draw some VERY WANTED attention.
list: jolly,jolly,apple,sand,frank
since we have moved the KD shoot date, I may have to come up and represent for FL...
Please post all links and lodging info.
Many thanks!
Bring camping gear Im sure we will be doin it in regular fashion. Welcome Fla.
Salute
Hey guys, I plan to be there. I understand some of you may want to camp, if they allow it. But I only live about 40 miles south of the club and most of that is interstate travel, so it isn't a bad trip. I don't have a house full of beds, but yall are welcome to post up in my living room(2 couches and shag carpet(jk about the shag)) that anyone is welcome to crash on. Also have the kitchen and a decent grill if yall wanna crash or gather at my place after the shoot on Sat or Sun. Just let me know.
I sure appreciate the invite, Barrett, but I think a large portion of the other non-AS competitors will be camping, too. Makes me want to pitch a tent in that area to see if I can start a conversation with some possible new IITs.
J
Very true. I read more about the shoot and sounds like camping is totally welcome. I will probably end up hanging out for a while in the evening after the shoot, but driving home to sleep in a bed since it isn't too far.
Hey guys! Change of plans for me. I will be around this weekend after all!
I was talking with Sanderman, and we were thinking of having a dinner with wives, girlfriends, screaming offspring, whatever, on Saturday night at one of the restaurants near the range. It's a chance for everyone to meet the "power behind the throne" (our wives and girlfriends).
Everybody up for that?
Well since it was partly my idea I am down. What does the rest of the hive mind think?
Sorry guys, I can't make it. Change of plans....
Damn property taxes cut into my budget something fierce...
Have fun and keep me in the loop.
regards,
the other J.
Sorry to hear that jollynator. We'll pour some out for you.
I will attend Sat night if possible, however I doubt the "power" has any chance of making it. If we were ATL peeps that might be a different story, though.
J
OK, my wife says she is willing to come and bring the kids for dinner on Saturday night.
Are you all sure you want to miss the cookout?
At present, I'm planning to get there late Friday night; maybe someone can make sure I get let in the gate. I should be there by 9:30 or 10PM.
Last I heard the only attendees to make it to last weekends much-anticipated match was Barrett and FranklinFarmer. I hope they did well. I'm very sorry I couldn't attend.
And the forthcoming 40 lashes from FF is not too harsh, I hope. :bow: ~~:)
No sweat...Bagel, and the Colonel and I did our best to represent the group...and spread around the appropriate picture of you no-shows for next year. And hey, there was more free beer for us.
Seriously, they had a guy there who shot 483 out of 500 (50 shots) on a 3.5 MOA bulls-eye at 200 yards with an as-issue Garand. Think about that. Essentially, that means he got about 17 out of 50 in the 9 ring (which I think was 5.5 MOA. And this counts two rapid fire rounds (prone and sitting) and a standing round with no sling.
I was quite happy with my best round (sitting) at 95, which means 50% in the 10 ring and the other 50% in the 9 ring. But this guy is putting 83% in the 10 ring overall. Amazing.
Thats pretty good shooting.
I'll be there next year for the free beer.
J