Recived new 20 MOA base for 10-22 yesterday.
Burris signature rings give another 20 MOA.
So today with strong breeze from 6 oclock,
I took my pencil and note pad to record come ups.
Alttitude 4400 feet above sea level. Air temp 38f.
Ammo CCI mini mags RN
Rifle 10-22 with aftermarket 20" barrel
scope has 67 moa adjustment from 25 yard zero.
All values are from 25 yard zero
25 yard and 60 meter zero
100 yard up 6 moa
212 yard up 24 moa
332 yard up 51 moa
388 yard up 67 moa
The odd numbers for distances are a result useing the existing range and all distances are laser measured by multipul range finders.
The 388 yard impacts had some wild flyers not noted at the closer distances fired.
These were not shot on paper, but zero data gathered by shooting at dry dirt and observing impact through the scope then comming up until the elevation was right.
I'd like to see this repeated in warmer times. I'm willing to bet temp has a bigger impact on .22 than on centerfire.
We did a lot of .22 rimfire shooting on the Home Range at 400 on a full-size AQT steel silhouette, and our findings vary considerably from the above. Our rough "by eye" impressions were of a 49-foot drop at 400 yards.
I could, and should, figure it more closely, as the sight on my .22 Enfield trainer at "1100" was about dead-on at 400 yards. I'll bet someone with a click-adjustable Enfield sight can count the clicks up from 100 zero pretty quick and come up with a far more precise measurement. Maybe our eyeballs were all wrong. :-\
We could hit the 400 pretty regularly, but at 500 nobody could get anything like a group. What a difference that extra hundred yards made!
My old 10/22 and Remington Golden Bullets with Tech Sights has the same 25 yd and 100 yd. POI. Yeah, the group at 100 yds. is bigger, darn it!! ;D
Any numbers you get from another should be a starting point for your own "experiments" in trajectory with your rifle and ammo. Don't wait till you need to make a longer distance shot find out your come ups and those you read somewhere are different.
Have fun.
Quote from: Old Dog on January 16, 2010, 03:04:12 PM
My old 10/22 and Remington Golden Bullets with Tech Sights has the same 25 yd and 100 yd. POI. Yeah, the group at 100 yds. is bigger, darn it!! ;D
Any numbers you get from another should be a starting point for your own "experiments" in trajectory with your rifle and ammo. Don't wait till you need to make a longer distance shot find out your come ups and those you read somewhere are different.
Have fun.
This is especially true if the rifle is going to be used for partial KD training at an event. Have the come up verified, the math known, and be ready to have what you teach on trajectory easy to match with the reality the students will experience.
Have everything worked out long before the students pick up the rifle to shoot.
I had fun trying to hit a dinner plate size ceramic target at ~150 yards with my scoped .22 while it was getting dark, raining, and hard to see up the hill through the brush and trees. I intentionally placed my shots high, knowing the trajectory of a .22LR bullet, and was looking for terrain feedback (moving dirt, leaves, etc). At shot #22, I finally heard the "DING" from hitting the target -- after about 2 seconds. I aimed 4 marks high on the vertical, which I figure is about 4".
These data also vary from my own findings. We setup a 6" steel plate at 190 yards and it took 18moa (aprox 36" at that range) to get on target. This was with the Federal 510 ammo. I think your data is incorrect in the fact that you are not taking into account how moa gets bigger at longer ranges ?? You say 24 moa at 200+ yards that would be something like 48" I just dont' think there could be that big a difference. Are you sure you did'nt mean 12" moa ??
Here's a little trick I discovered by accident for shooting .22 rimfires with a Duplex reticle scope at 100 and a little beyond. Set up a target at 100 yds with a 1" gridwork on it. From prone w/sling or (horrors!) a solid sandbagged benchrest, set your scope (if a variable) at its lowest power and measure how many inches on the target are bracketed between the crosshairs intersection and the transition point on any crosswire where it goes from thin wire to thick wire. Write this # of inches (also minutes of angle, right?) down along with the power setting on the scope. Go to the next power and do the same until you have covered all the power settings on your variable scope. Inches at 100 yards is the same as minutes, so now you know how many MOA are covered by the length of the inner reticle thin wire between intersection and the change to thick wire (should be the same for all four segments, upper, lower, right, and left).
Next is to shoot your .22 at different distances and check for actual drop in inches at different ranges. Record this and convert to MOA per every distance.
Next, compare these MOA drops at whatever range to the thin-wire MOA length at different scope power settings. When you find one that matches or is very close, you set your scope at that power and use the lower wire (bottom wire below the intersection) thick-thin transition point as the aiming point at that distance.
Basically you ignore the intersection of the crosswires, you ignore the length of the thin wire below it, and you use the uppermost point of the lower thick wire as though it were an iron front sight. When your target distance drop MOA number matches your scope setting thin-wire MOA length, this thick/thin transition point on the lower wire is where your shot will fall at that target distance. Use that point to aim dead-on your target and you should hit.
Needless to say this also works for a Duplex-scoped centerfire. I have a little strip of paper taped to each of my scopes that has this info on it (power setting/MOA).
Thanks Pete
Yesterday 62 minutes of angle gave close to a 426 yard zero @ 90F
Last winter 67 minutes of angle was only good for 388 yards zero @ + 20F
I'd be willing to bet money you'll see big differences between shooting in the Rockies and down by sea level, and that temperature will have a bigger effect for us high country shooters.
Anecdotally, the baseballs in Rockies stadium are stored in a humidor, so the cores won't be so springy. Private pilots know that you have to count on a longer, harder climb at high elevation, especially in warm weather. So Clod's observed differences in measurement between summer and winter, and Fred's differences from Clod's, aren't too surprising.
"harder climb at high elevation, especially in warm weather."
And humidity makes a big difference in density altitude....O.L.
If anyone knows the story of Captain Joseph McConnell, Jr. there was a neat little bit of information there about altitude and its effect on bullet trajectory.
I realize F86's fired their .50 caliber machine guns at way higher altitudes than a Rifleman fires his rifle but please read on.
Korea was only a few years after WW2 and there were many experienced WW2 fighter pilots in those new jet fighters. Captain McConnell had not been a WW2 fighter pilot but when he got his chance to fly/fight with an F86 in the skies over Korea he quickly began to knock North Korean/Chinese Mig 15's out of the air. His rise to "Ace" status was phenomenal and eventually a movie was made about him (Alan Ladd, The McConnell Story).
In an interview with Senator John Glenn years later Senator Glenn was talking about McConnell and his skill with his F86 against the more maneuverable Mig15. Senator Glenn said that the other pilots were amazed at the range McConnell could hit a Mig15 with his guns. They had been spending much more time working their way much closer to the Mig15s before opening fire - because they were experienced WW2 propellor powered fighter planes. They were flying jets but fighting them like propellor planes. McConnell, not having had the WW2 experience began shooting at much greater ranges and got hits - because the air was so much thinner at the higher altitudes the F86's and Mig15's generally engaged at.
Higher altitudes, thinner air, less bullet drop = more hits at longer ranges.
Good story, good movie.
OK..... I'll bite. I'm the math type and just getting into long range shooting with a .308 so this interests me on a slightly different level. Has anyone seen ballistic coefficients for .22lr anywhere? I plan to get some software soon and it might be interesting to plot a couple of charts regarding this.
RR
Using a 22LR at long ranges is cheap way to learn how to read the wind.
At longer ranges, the windage adjustment is "approximately" the same as a .308 at twice the distance.
Here some good places to start.
http://www.lassensharpshooters.com/LongDistanceShootingFactors.htm
http://www.gunsmoke.com/guns/1022/22ballistics.html
I'm working up a bolt action 22 for long range shooting based on this concept.
X
You can go to Federal's website and see a limited amount of trajectrory graphs there.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rimfire.aspx (http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rimfire.aspx)
Enter in the caliber and click on the detail button for the ammo you wish to check.
i shot my 10/22 at 100 yards and had to come up 11clicks (tech sights) from 25 yd zero
I have a method similar to that used by Colorado Pete which also involves the use of a variable (Leupold rimfire AO) scope with Duplex reticle. After pouring over different trajectory tables for the weight and velocity of the ammo I found worked best in my rifle, I came up with a 75-yard zero that (in my application) is pretty darn close to allowing me to do the following: At 25 yards, hold dead on; at 50 yards, hold BELOW the target using as your aiming point the point where the thin duplex transitions to the thick portion of the reticle; at 75 yards, hold dead on; at 100 yards, hold ABOVE the target using as your aiming point the point where the thin duplex transitions to the thick portion of the reticle. YMMV. This only works (in my application) while the scope is dialed up to 9x as the other magnifications will result in a different amount of elevation covered by the same span in the reticle. I say a 75-yard zero rather than a 25-yard zero because if you're off by a little bit at 75 yards when sighting in, it won't make much difference at 25 yards. Yet if you're off by a little bit at 25 yards when sighting in ... ! This set up allows me to have a great time shooting golf balls out to 100 yards while keeping all of my aiming points within the thin opening of my duplex reticle.
Oh, FYI. 6 MOA drop @ 100 yards for Remington Subsonics running through a suppressor is what we found at Cloverdale this weekend.
That holds well with bill o rights's findings (11clicks x .625 = 6.8 MOA). I clicked in 24 on a simple 1/4 MOA scope so we are well matched.
I worried there would be grouping issues, but it went really well.
So last weekend, I thought I would give this a try. I found using a standard 10/22 carbine with a scope, I had to come up 32 (1/4 m.o.a.) clicks. I was able to hold the cross center of mass on a 4 inch square and punch holes consistently. I was able to confirm by clicking down, switching to 1 inch squares and put them in their place.
I was using CCI minimags, probably 90 degrees F and high humidity.
AdamT.