I am looking for a good battle rifle optic for my standard M1A. There are a few things I'm looking for: lower power, toughness, and an easy-to-use rangefinding and bullet drop compensating capability. Basically something that can do everything from close-in shooting to long range. If its a variable power scope, it would need to be of the first focal plane type, so the BDC could be used on low power as well as high. I want a BDC that is set for 147 grain ball. I haven't found a whole lot of scopes that have everything I'm looking for, so I thought I might ask for some suggestions and see what some of you guys are using.
So far, the ones I like best are the ELCAN Specter DR, the ACOG TA-55, and the ACOG TA-11H-308. They're all pricey... the TA-11 is $1100, the TA-55 is $1400, and the ELCAN is $1500. I have the money and am willing to spend it to get what I want, but I would sure be open to something that would do what I need at a cheaper price! I guess another issue is that both the ACOG and the ELCAN are set up for a flat top AR, so they would sit kind of high on an M1A, probably necessitating a pretty high cheek riser. I suppose you need a cheek riser for ANY scope you put on a receiver mount for an M1A anyway... i'll probably get one of the adjustable Karsten ones. And of course I'll use one of the good 3-point scope mounts (Sadlak, Smith, etc.).
The ELCAN and the AGOGs both use a similar BDC/ranging reticle, where each aiming point is the width of a man's chest at the corresponding range. This is the most intuitive design I've seen, and seems like it would be very quick to use in the field. The ELCAN also has a Russian-style height-based rangefinder in one corner of the reticle.
I like the ELCAN because it switches from 1x to 4x with the throw of a switch. It has an illuminated reticle and you can illuminate the whole reticle, or just the dot in the middle of the crosshairs. Its not a FFP scope, so the dot is 6 MOA on 1x, and 1.5 MOA on 4x. Basically it can be a red dot sight for close quarters, and a BDC scope for longer range shooting. It uses lithium batteries for illumination, which I'm not crazy about. Here's the ELCAN:
(http://i517.photobucket.com/albums/u340/csgunworks/Elcan-Ret.jpg)
(http://67.199.39.59/ebay/TD/itemImage/elcan-specter-dr.jpg)
I am also thinking about a couple of different models of AGOGs: the 3.5x TA-11, and the 5.5x TA-55. They don't use batteries -- they have both tritium and fiber-optic illumination. Only the center aiming point is illuminated -- none of the stadia lines are. It is set up so that in close quarters, you can shoot with both eyes open and focus on the illuminated center, which simulates a non-magnified sight. They have aiming points out to 1200m.
TA-11:
(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-99971461949815_2075_13138223)
TA-55:
(http://www.trijicon.com/parts/TA55_135-web1.jpg)
(http://www.trijicon.com/parts/TA55A_RedChevron.jpg)
Both the ACOGs and the ELCANs are set for 147 grain bullets. They say the BDCs on the ACOGs are calibrated for a M240, which only has an inch or so longer barrel than an M14, so it should be pretty close. I don't know what length barrel the ELCAN is set for. Probably the same thing, since they say the 700-1000 meter aiming points are for "area fire." I have held and looked through all the scopes mentioned. The reticle sure looks small in the 3.5x ACOG -- it seems like the ranging feature might be hard to use with those tiny little stadia lines. The 5.5x is much better. That's probably what I'll get if I go for the ACOG.
Does anybody have opinions on or experience with any of these types of scope? Any other recommendations? I guess it would be a lot cheaper to just get a plain old duplex or mil scope and learn to estimate range and compensate for drop using various measurements on the reticle, but it seems like remembering all that stuff for all the different ranges might just go right out the window in a stressful situation. I like how intuitive the reticles are on these, and how they can both be used for close quarters too.
I'm just looking for advice from those more experienced than me on this, or who may have already gone down the same road. Thanks!
Have you considered a nice mil-dot scope at all? It is not too hard to learn how to use the mildots to judge range and drop. I think that if you took the time to learn how to use it, you can be more effective with a mildot scope than the BDC reticle.
I am on the same path you are and let me share my experiences. The elcan has not been recommended to me by people in the know. I have been told by people that have used it and been there that it is not up to par for the price. I purchased an IOR 2-12x32 for my M1A and with the scope mount and everything it makes it pretty heavy. It made my tennis elbow worse. Just keep in mind that you will be adding weight to an already heavy rifle. The ACOG has an excellent rep and I wish I had spent my 1300 on it instead of the scope. Any way you look at, you will need a cheek piece or something. I went with the VLTOR stock for the M1A with the adjustable stock. At 500 it was pricey but I love it, even though I am not using a scope right now with it. Make sure you buy a quality mount like Smith, Sadlak or ARMS
I am probably going to buy a Burris 2-7x32 with BDC and put a Tritium front sight on my M1A because the Burris is not illuminated. Just my 0.02.
I had a Burris 2-7 on my scout. For about $350 it is hard to beat. I was able to use the reticle to hit steal at 925 yds repeatedly. The ability to go from 2 power (up close and fast) to 7 power (reach out and touch) is nice. I mounted it on my factory rail from Springfield but if you don't have one I would suggest the Ultimak. Also if you go this route get a quick detach rings.
This is a great set up for people who want to shoot an M1A at an Appleseed, but there eyes are not quite up to the task. I have found that some people need just a little magnification and it makes all the difference for them. This setup works well. But the BDC can confuse them.
If you're willing to spend that kind of money I'd check out US Optics or Nightforce. With USO you can pick from any number of reticles and turrets, NF has a couple choices as well.
Only problem is, once you use them you won't want to go back to an inexpensive scope.
I have a Nightforce on my bolt gun and have to agree with the above. O0 If you don't need an illuminated reticle you may want to look at the Shepard. They have absolutly the best reticle going. I prefer my mil dot. !@#) !@#)
By the way, this was the original IOR scope that was recommended to me for my M1A from an Instructor who has been there and done that.
http://swfa.com/IOR-4x24-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P6754.aspx
I didn't get it because the 4x makes it difficult to CQB, but that is not as important as it once was. I probably will get one from the AR I am building as a DMR.
If you are going to scope it over the receiver, I would make a few suggestions first don't get a variable power scope. The M1A is very hard on optics and variable power scopes seem to fail. The IOR is an outstanding scope and they are built like a S&!# Brick house. The glass is great but I would suggest there 6x42 for the M1A. It is a fine scope and works well with there MP-8 reticule. If you have enough money for an Acog or elcan you would be better served in getting an IOR 6x42 ($650) and a JAE stock (starting at $600). But I would only due this if I had a rifle worthy of it (LRB with match grade barrel, or at least a match M1A). But to be honest the scout is the way to go with the Burris. It isn't as sexy as every thing else but it does what you want and for less money, and you well have a rifle that will do a lot of good at Appleseed's.
Quote from: biathlon on November 17, 2009, 07:04:19 PM
I have a Nightforce on my bolt gun and have to agree with the above. O0 If you don't need an illuminated reticle you may want to look at the Shepard. They have absolutly the best reticle going. I prefer my mil dot. !@#) !@#)
The Shepard has a reputation for failure.
The USO would be my first pick for an M1A, I have 2 IOR's they are not in the same class as the USO or NF. With the USO you can get exactly what you want, it is built to order and made in the USA.
I found a really good price on a new TA-55 ACOG and sprung for it. I'm going to try mounting it with a Leapers railed handguard and a LaRue LT-608 QD cantilever mount. I'll probably go with one of those Karsten/DWP type adjustable cheek rests.