I have been having a hard time finding info that discusses the weight difference between an M1A original wood stock and a synthetic stock. Is there a real difference? The M1A is a heavy beast, and anything I can do to make it considerably lighter is worth it. I am also blown away by the prices of M1A stocks from places like Fulton. Are Fred's $100-150 synthetic stocks as good as the $400-600 ones sold by other companies? I can't imagine why any synthetic stock would cost > $200.
Any purchase suggestions welcome.
Are you worried about looks or it being the best tool it can be , Looks kinda hard to beat a nice walnut stock
just one of the Really pretty things a Rifle can Have , Best tool synthetic ! does not swell with dampness and contact (ot never get's damp around WA ::) ) you miaght have noted what my new Rifle is sporting if it had came with a pretty wood stock I would have been getting ahold of Freds Pronto!
just my 2 cents
Wade
Fred's stocks are USGI surplus. Not sure about any others. Without actually weighing, the weight of my synthetic stock is comparable to the wooden stocks that I have. USGI also means you can use it to compete in CMP service rifle competitions.
Synthetic doesn't warp or otherwise change with normal environmental conditions (don't have experience with super extremes of heat or cold).
Synthetic is easy to paint and easy to fill the selector hole.
Synthetic has pressed in checkering on the pistol grip and fore end. I could pass on the fore end checkering because I found it to be abrasive to the hand when shooting a lot. But, I filed and sanded it away prior to painting and now you would never know it had been there.
Synthetic can be left assembled continuously without worry of loosening the wood to metal fit. Synthetic is impervious to most gun cleaning products and will not absorb gun oil and soften.
Wood looks good. Somehow looks a bit more comfortable and friendly. Nice to keep around a pretty wooden stock for a photo op.
Quote from: Puff-TMD on November 02, 2009, 08:37:20 PM
Fred's stocks are USGI surplus. Not sure about any others. Without actually weighing, the weight of my synthetic stock is comparable to the wooden stocks that I have. USGI also means you can use it to compete in CMP service rifle competitions.
Synthetic doesn't warp or otherwise change with normal environmental conditions (don't have experience with super extremes of heat or cold).
Synthetic is easy to paint and easy to fill the selector hole.
Synthetic has pressed in checkering on the pistol grip and fore end. I could pass on the fore end checkering because I found it to be abrasive to the hand when shooting a lot. But, I filed and sanded it away prior to painting and now you would never know it had been there.
Synthetic can be left assembled continuously without worry of loosening the wood to metal fit. Synthetic is impervious to most gun cleaning products and will not absorb gun oil and soften.
Wood looks good. Somehow looks a bit more comfortable and friendly. Nice to keep around a pretty wooden stock for a photo op.
What Puff said.
The synthetic G.I. stock is the best for Rifleman work.
It's practical, not pretty and frankly speaking the G.I. synthetic stock does a better job of securing the steady hold factors on the forestock due to the checkering, IMOH.....compared to wood.
The M1A is a heavy rifle, but it really shines on the long range.
I think you will be very happy with your M1A.
Brett
Is a synthetic stock lighter than a wood stock? I don't have an M1A in a synthetic stock, so I can't compare the weight to my wood stock M1A. If they are about the same weight, then I have to consider the reasons listed that makes synthetic superior. However, I first want to know if synthetic is lighter (makes it easier to justify spending the money).
As for Fred's stocks, I don't know the difference between the synthetic choices. Can anyone explain?
Quote from: Kratos on November 02, 2009, 10:15:26 PM
Is a synthetic stock lighter than a wood stock? I don't have an M1A in a synthetic stock, so I can't compare the weight to my wood stock M1A. If they are about the same weight, then I have to consider the reasons listed that makes synthetic superior. However, I first want to know if synthetic is lighter (makes it easier to justify spending the money).
As for Fred's stocks, I don't know the difference between the synthetic choices. Can anyone explain?
The way I see it Fred has some great deals on used m14 stocks just spend a few $ and see if you like it I am sure that you will , It seems like I remember seeing Freds having 14 synthetic stocks for only $105 is that cheap enough to try one out ? sell the 13 you don't want on gun broker heck you miaght even make a few $
Wade
When I build or buy an M14 the first thing I do is put it in a nice synthetic GI stock. No problems. Ever. And the next thing I do is put a GI kit in the butt trap to ADD weight. It's a tool, and the synthetic is tougher, maintenance free, doesn't mind water, scratches, etc. I think you'll like synthetic better. Just my 2 cents.
Quote from: Junior Birdman on November 03, 2009, 10:47:53 AM
When I build or buy an M14 the first thing I do is put it in a nice synthetic GI stock. No problems. Ever. And the next thing I do is put a GI kit in the butt trap to ADD weight. It's a tool, and the synthetic is tougher, maintenance free, doesn't mind water, scratches, etc. I think you'll like synthetic better. Just my 2 cents.
But is the synthetic stock lighter than the factory wood stock?
Wood stocks very quite a bit in weight. Some will be heavier than syn, a very few will be lighter.
Syn, of course, are quite uniform in weight.
To me, they generally feel a touch lighter than wood, but it's more a feeling, than something which will show much difference on a scale.
Hi all (Fred),
Is anything other than the buttplate w/hardware required to complete a stock from the 14 pack of synthetics stocks?
Edit: I read a little more thoroughly and see that they come complete.
Hello All; Here are a few reasons that I like synthetics. They are Cheap and near indestructable, Paint them to match the season, Weight them to balance where ever you like, add cheek/comb so your eye meets the Scope if your using one exactly where you need it, Install a pistol grip like on the big $$$$$ stocks.
All this can be done with a few fiberglass GI stocks, sure they are ugly and so is a bulldog but they are tough as nails, Any rattle can will make a servicable finish, and some add a texture. A little time and a package of Brownells acraglass gell will give you a fitted stock that would cost many a FRN if you had another do the job for you. The choice is yours but realy you cant afford not to have a few extra stocks for your rifle. Pappy
Hello,
Just to add my 2ยข worth:
Weight: Generally the syn is lighter than the wood stocks;
Price: As long as folks will pay high prices, they will keep charging them- I think P.T. Barnum or W.C. Fields had things to say about this :) ;
Generally: Once you put the syn stock on, the first thing you'll notice is an improvement in you groups- Why? There's a lot of finer, mechanical & tolerance things involved, basically it's the rifle's way of saying "thanks for putting the
right stock on me";
Painting: Why? look at the unfinished syn stock during the day, the colors change! I don't know what the primer used on the stocks is, but it's unique.[/list]
Basically, the USGI syn stock is
The Only Stock for the M1A!
Tom
Quote from: desertrat144 on November 03, 2009, 10:57:59 PM
Basically, the USGI syn stock is The Only Stock for the M1A!
Thank you. I just ordered "Exc-As New, Synthetic, w/Vg-exc buttplate - $95".
Echo chamber in here, but synthetic is definitely the way to go. Synthetics aren't as pretty as wood, but they can be gussied up to look better if that's your bag. If you want to get even more into it, check out Ted's pistol grip modified stocks (Shootimus Maximus here). I've got one on my rifle and love it. There's a picture of it floating around here somewhere, but the PG definitely helps with controlling the rifle. I relocated a new sling swivel to where my hand wants to rest on the forestock and it's rock solid now. Ted might be willing to modify yours so you don't have to buy a "new" stock, but then it wouldn't hurt to have a spare stock anyway.
Quote from: WadeIt seems like I remember seeing Freds having 14 synthetic stocks for only $105 is that cheap enough to try one out ? sell the 13 you don't want on gun broker heck you might even make a few $
I was all excited to order 14 stocks for $105 but I was confused and could not figure out why Kratos would pay $95 for a single stock when you can buy 14 for $105.....
So I went back and read Fred's site a little more closely and discovered the "Lots of 14 stocks" prices are EACH and you have to buy 14 to get that price. 14 synthetics stocks would cost $1470 unless you buy one and fill in the rest of the 14 with $18 wood stocks.
Figured I would share this and save some disappointment in case anyone planned to order a lot of stocks for $105 and expect to get a box with 14 of them inside.
Got the stock today, thanks Fred! Now what do ya'll suggest for making it a pretty flat black or green? Just buy any spray paint and go at it, or should I use a primer? The search function isn't my friend tonight :'(
K, the stocks vary a bit in just how 'new' and clean they are.
I'd first thoroughly degrease it.
If there are any blemishes, or if you want a stock which won't tend to slide around when you're sweaty, next I'd coat it with a product called 'trunk paint', available from auto stores. It will add a 'texture' which is easy to grip and won't slip when sweat gets between you and the stock.
THEN add your color coat.
Last, I'd overspray with three coats of a FLAT polyurethane varnish, to add chip-resistance - this last is optional...
Aren't the new M1As from Springfield Armory coming with a new kind of commercial synthetic stock? I think they are different from a GI stock and don't think they have the buttplate. Any experience with these?
Yes, Springfield makes a synthetic stock. They function, although I have seen issues with them interfering with the functioning of the op rod. Do yourself a favor and get a GI stock. You will be glad you did, even if it was just to get the butt-plate.
Greg
Hello Group; The fiberglass Springfield Stock that came on a loaded standard M1A was a GI stock that had been painted over with a thick black grip type finish, the butt pad was rubber and filled the void that was there from the GI flip up plate. A GI plate was quickly ordered and installed. They are easy to fit to your action with hand tools. Pappy
Plus, once restored, you are able to again store an M14 cleaning kit in the stock...adds 2/3rds of a pound to help dampen recoil, and provides the tools needed for emergency repairs in the field - particularly if you enlarge/alter the stock so as to fit a firing pin, extractor & spring, and trigger pin in the butt with the C/K. Enthusiasts might want to add an ejector and spring to the list - won't take up much more room.
Pappy,
Springfield is indeed using a different synthetic stock on new rifles. I have encountered one on the line and asked the shooter about it, he said he just got it .
It resembled a Choate stock in material and finish, and was much more "solid" than a GI stock. By solid I mean more material and less hollow space.
Oh, yeah, this was in fact the stock on the rifle that had op-rod issues at the Oct. Osage shoot.
LS
Second the notes on Shootimus's Stock Mod. The BOMB!! KoolAid and I did some horse trading in 07 to get a pair, and I have never looked back.
I also like the syn. because you can build up the butt easier with bondo for a better turkeyneck/cheek weild (filling in the comb). A forward hand stop is easily done also with a few layers of bondo. Really makes the 14 handle alot better.
I too have a stock from Fred, a nice Tiger Stripe. Couldn't believe how nicely it finished out.
Enjoy!!
http://www.moral-flexibility.net/archives/2005/01/05/m14-stock-project/
This guy suggests using sandpaper as the degreaser. Is this more thorough, or will a liquid degreaser work better (less work and/or more thorough)?
Engine or commercial degreaser? Lowes.com has lots of choices, HomeDepot.com has none, Schucks.com has auto engine degreaser.
Syn GI stocks come with a rough, "shark-skin" texture - for gripability, I suppose - which wears down to smooth and slick after considerable use.
Sandpaper would be appropriate to roughen up the smooth surface so the paint will adhere better.
Most of the GI syns we sell as still so new they don't have the "smooth spots" and so therefore don't need to be sanded (of course, the stock is yours - you own it, so you can do as you like).
I'd use simple soap and water, or something like simple degreaser - I've used brake cleaner as it's cheap and cuts about anything. You can use acetone, with rubber gloves and good ventilation, even tho it's prob overkill.
The stocks (mostly) do not have real grease on them (a few do), so mainly you're concerned about human skin oil which might weaken paint adhesion.
I have been known to paint the occasional motorcycle and there is a product line called "Wax & Grease Remover." All of the major automotive paint companies have their own wax & grease remover. I typically hit the surface with rubbing alcohol followed by the wax & grease remover. If there is a lot of contaminants on the surface then something like a non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a good starting point.
Don't start sanding until you have all of the contaminants removed otherwise you are just sanding it into the surface and will give you problems later on when you spray the base coat followed by clear. You automotive paint vendor should also have a 2k primer that is appropriate for plastic. The best thing you can do is take the stock with you down to the paint vendor so they can see what you are trying to accomplish. A good 2k plastic primer followed by several coats of regular high build 2k primer should give you a nice surface to sand smooth prior to spraying the base coat in the color of your choice.
Don't worry too much about "orange peel" when spraying the clear coat; color sanding followed by buffing is your friend to get that deep wet look.
One more piece of advice, pick a painting system and stick with it. Don't play amateur chemist with mixing and matching products.
I have a plastic stocked 10/22 LTR that I will paint next summer once it gets above 75 degrees for most of the day.
I'm split between a nice dark blue and a metallic purple. At least I have time to research colors amnd spray some test panels.
Fred, thanks for the feedback. The stock I received is very new and doesn't seem like it needs anything more than a paint job. I have a bunch of non-chlorinated brake cleaner that I use for cleaning the bore so will clean the stock with that. I don't have much experience with painting, so I really appreciate the advice.
Sort of off topic but I felt like sharing.
I have an older, all-USGI National Match M1a in a glass-bedded wood stock that I fought myself with for a long time whether to put in a synthetic for all the benefits due to the elements or keep it as is for any accuracy benefits from the bedded stock.
I have another Springfield Loaded model I bought recently in a synthetic stock.
Will spray paint, the $5/bottle kind, withstand gun cleaner solvents? I would think not, so one should use a firearm rated paint. What paints do ya'll use to repaint stocks?
The krylon camo kit from walmart. I clean my ARs with a combination of carb. cleaner and powder solvent. As long as I don't scrub the outside surfaces while it's wet with the carb cleaner it seems to be fine.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/IMG00071.jpg)
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/camovARmintrifle2.jpg)
The powder solvent has never bothered the M1 stock.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/camoM1P2.jpg)
If you want the paint to be really impervious to solvents and such, take it to a local body shop and have them shoot it with Imron or a comparable paint. Tougher than nails, and withstands years of regular cleaning solvent spills. Even withstands brake fluid, which will usually lift any normal paint.
The synthetic stock is definitely lighter than the wood stock, which is heavier on the front end.
How did everyone fill the gaps on the G1 stock when you drop in your M1A barrel/receiver? I will take pictures to show where I have holes/gaps.
Kratos,
The only gap I have filled in the past is the selector switch cut out. First set some wire into the cut out, 1/8 inch into the stock walls, leaving about as much hanging in the open; set at 3,6 & 9 o'clock positions. The 3 & 9 o'clock should be a bit below the tops of the cut out. From there I just tape both sides with masking tape forming a wall, then fill with fibre glass Bondo, 1/3 of the way at a time. The masking tape adhesive does not present any problems, and actually cleans up readily. A friend of mine made a wood filler piece, pinned, then Bondoed (sp?) around it.
The rest of the gaps around the receiver, I don't touch; I always figured they belonged, and helped with heat dissipation. I haven't had any problems with dust, &tc. out here when desert camping. Cleaning with Bore cleaner (Hoppes), then wiping with Break Free CLP does the trick. The only critical gap adjustment I come across so far is the the metal to metal contacts at the front ferrule, but there's scores of info for that.
I was beginning to wonder if that extra space between the stock and the receiver was contributing to inaccuracy. Is this true? My groups widened a bit since I put on that fiberglass gi stock... Though, I could just be getting rusty. My 14 was bought off a guy who I think fibbed about how many rounds went through it. Who does a good 14 check up? How does one know when to rebarrel?
Re; groups opening up with the stock, check out the gap at the front ferrule (metal part that is the first contact) for spacing. That dimension is pretty critical. As to the rest, it depends on where you live- there are still a lot of VN era armorers that advertise those services.
Tom
The beauty of the synthetic stock is you can add a pistol grip to it with some patience and fiberglass. I primed and added some matt black wrinkle finish. Here are a couple of pictures. This is a new LRB M25 installed in a modified GI synthetic stock.