http://www.scribd.com/full/27765477?access_key=key-25o3hl0i8xdi4f5zo2tb
I mentioned this to a few people at Stinson shoot. It's an Army Major talking about troop complaints of difficulty in engaging the enemy past 300m. It's a pretty long read, but I enjoyed it. There is some history of Rifleman training in it to. In it, the author tries to identify the factors in the problem and propose solutions.
Later,
Chrome...
Here I thought 10 shots out of a semi-auto in 65 seconds was rough!
QuoteThe marksmanship qualification course consisted of two sections. First was a series of slow fire engagements with no time limit. Infantrymen engaged targets from multiple positions to include sitting and kneeling at 300 yards and prone from 600 yards, firing 10 rounds from each position. The second portion of the qualification consisted of rapid-fire engagements from multiple positions. Infantrymen were required to fire 10 rounds from either the sitting or kneeling position in one minute at 200 yards, then 10 rounds from the prone position in seventy seconds from 300 yards and finally 10 rounds from the prone position from 500 yards in eighty seconds. Keep in mind that this course of fire began from the standing position with an unloaded rifle. The shooter had to load the rifle, assume the position for that course of fire, shoot five rounds, reload and fire an additional five rounds within the time limit, all the while manually running the bolt action to reload for every shot.
Quote...all the while manually running the bolt action to reload for every shot.
So I don't wanna hear ANYMORE guff about 55 seconds not being enough for Stage 2. If your forebears could do it with a bolt action rifle, you should be able to do it in HALF the time.
Chrome - very interesting document - I am working my way through it. Having read Lone Survivor (Afghanistan) and Joker One (Ramadi), the incredible need and value of marksmanship and careful, rapid fire really stood out.
Yup, they used to do it with bolt action 30.06 rifles with no shooting gloves, no shooting jacket, and they were "little guys" compared to many of us today. Did you ever handle an 03 Springfield? Little bitty buttstock that comes down to about 4 or 5 inches from by elbow when I grab the wrist and put my finger in the trigger guard. My grandpa was about 5 ft. 8 in. and weighed 140 lbs. soaking wet.
When the Germans walked out of the woods across the wheat field at Belleau Wood in France the Marines, using their iron sighted 03 Springfields began to kill them at 800 yds. out. The fire from the Marines was so devastating that they broke numerous German attempts to cross "no man's land" and finally the surviving German officers gave up the attempt and reported back to their higher command that they were facing "a battalion of snipers."
Today we have scopes and optical sights on a rifle that doesn't "kick like a mule" and can be fired 30 times before you have to take your finger off the trigger.
As folks keep saying. Its not the rifle, its the guy pulling the trigger.
Appleseed has been in contact with Maj. Erhart. He has drawn a lot of interest inside and outside the Army with that paper.
We are working on the shooter part of the equation, Appleseed works!
Now I want to know why all you folks haven't set up shoots with the folks at your local National Guard Armory?
Well? what are you waiting for? ~~:)
Sam
Quote from: SamD on March 23, 2010, 09:02:35 PM
Appleseed has been in contact with Maj. Erhart. He has drawn a lot of interest inside and outside the Army with that paper.
We are working on the shooter part of the equation, Appleseed works!
Now I want to know why all you folks haven't set up shoots with the folks at your local National Guard Armory?
Well? what are you waiting for? ~~:)
Sam
Is anyone working the ANG in Charleston?
YEP.
YOU ARE!
Quote from: SamD on March 23, 2010, 10:50:53 PM
YEP.
YOU ARE!
I got time on my hands, I slept last night, that's six wasted hours ;^)
When can we get a write up on WSMR? One NG training is interesting, two is a trend. I will approach our local Armory soon as I get our press kits in the mail.
YHJ
This is a great read! Someone high enough up in the food chain to get doctrine, and survivability increased. What I found interesting was that opical sights are a recent innovation for all troops now. Remember when the original stated mission of Appleseed was " ...to place 5 rounds in a 100 yard target, using a rack grade M14 with iron sights..."? Now its 25 yards, and good luck finding folks using iron sights. I wonder how well everyone using currrent optics, lasers, scopes, &tc. would do using the same rifles with them?
Ramblings from a dinosaur that loved shooting the '03s & P-17s.
Tom
You get writeup and pix when the Army releases them.
That's 1 NG outfit
The 2E are active
Thanks for sharing this Chrome; I might get to read it in a month or two. ;D I have a huge library of reference material that I'm still wading through...I'll add it to the collection.
Siglite, I gave a stack of promo material along with a pitch for AS to some of the Guard personnel who were at the Armory last year during the gun show. Never received feedback from anyone. You might want to follow up with any connections you may have.
Sam, I see you're still in rare form! ;D Hope all is well with you. O0
Quote from: SamD on March 24, 2010, 01:52:36 AM
You get writeup and pix when the Army releases them.
That's 1 NG outfit
The 2E are active
Roger.
In holding pattern and awaiting word.