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IBC Lansing, MI January 25-26, 2014

Started by ITB, January 26, 2014, 06:12:55 PM

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Superheat

Quote from: GoldFish on January 27, 2014, 09:57:36 PM

Couple other points I would have liked to have seen improved upon

Well.... don't leave us guessing.

Oz

Quote from: Superheat on January 27, 2014, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: GoldFish on January 27, 2014, 09:57:36 PM

Couple other points I would have liked to have seen improved upon

Well.... don't leave us guessing.

Are there?  Well then tell us!  (Tell us!)  What do you do with witches to improve IBC?   :pop:
"You don't know they're all Riflemen.  They might just be people with rifles." - Zazzles, 9/22/12

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

"There are no accidents in my philosophy. Every effect must have its cause. The past is the cause of the present, and the present will be the cause of the future." - Abraham Lincoln

"My biggest decision this week?  Well...long story short, I went with the mild sauce."

GoldFish

#32
Quote from: Superheat on January 27, 2014, 10:11:18 PM
Quote from: GoldFish on January 27, 2014, 09:57:36 PM

Couple other points I would have liked to have seen improved upon

Well.... don't leave us guessing.

Still working on the full write up to send, but the big one that I'll talk about right now is the 'shooter diagnostic' breakout we did on Sunday morning.
It worked very well and probably proved to be the most valuable drill done throughout the weekend (except maybe for the poker tourney).  I believe that having SB's rotate with the same group of IIT's was the best option for this drill (vs. having IIT's rotate through different SB's/RH's with the breakout sessions on Saturday).  It could be improved and tweaked through a few different options, such as writing a scenario for each station or having the IIT's actually work through the problems with a shooter (RH).  I think that having them interact with the shooter/RH, more than just asking questions, would be beneficial but am not sure if that would add or detract to the goal of the drill.  Regardless of how the exercise is changed, I would standardize it so that all the SB's/IIT's are doing the same thing, so that each station's 'instructor-student interaction' is the same (vs. having one group of IIT's actually talk and help the shooter fix his problems and another group just writing down what they think is wrong with his form and talking with the SB/tour guide).
But the drill went well and appeared to be much more useful, beneficial, and efficient than any type of mock AS that I have seen.
"Freedom is preserved by those who die for it, but it will not survive unless people are willing to live for it."
-Boba Fett (The RWVA Instructor, not the Star Wars Bounty Hunter)

'Yes, I am a Rifleman, but I'm also a Ninja....and a Jedi.'

"Integrity first, service before self, and excellence in all we do."

"Remember, my opinion on the totem pole of life is somewhere below whale s***..." -Chris Costa

"The more you care about something, the deeper the fight will come from within."  -Travis Haley

42          ΙΧΘΥΣ           كافر           MOÉ...ΩN É...ABE         αδάμαÏ, 

Merc, Mr. Fishy, Goober, Achmed, Cornflake, FBC, Tabilasco, Mowhawk 1 Alpha

What we do in life echoes in Eternity

Oz

Quote from: GoldFish on January 27, 2014, 10:22:26 PM
Still working on the full write up to send, but the big one that I'll talk about right now is the 'shooter diagnostic' breakout we did on Sunday morning.
It worked very well and probably proved to be the most valuable drill done throughout the weekend (except maybe for the poker tourney).  I believe that having SB's rotate with the same group of IIT's was the best option for this drill (vs. having IIT's rotate through different SB's/RH's with the breakout sessions on Saturday).  It could be improved and tweaked through a few different options, such as writing a scenario for each station or having the IIT's actually work through the problems with a shooter (RH).  I think that having the interact with the shooter/RH, more than just asking questions, would be beneficial but am not sure if that would add or detract to the goal of the drill.  Regardless of how the exercise is changed, I would standardize it so that all the SB's/IIT's are doing the same thing, so that each station's 'instructor-student interaction' is the same (vs. having one group of IIT's actually talk and help the shooter fix his problems and another group just writing down what they think is wrong with his form and talking with the SB/tour guide).
But the drill went well and appeared to be much more useful, beneficial, and efficient than any type of mock AS that I have seen.

Agree.  It was all of our first time doing it and it was an excellent drill--great call, Staff!  But we're always improving, so, possible tweaks...I think in line with Goldfish's comments:

--A little background/scenario could help for each issue.  "This shooter showed steady progress through Saturday morning but in early afternoon their groups fell apart." 

--Understand the expectations--for the OHs and also the SBs.  Is the drill a test of observation where the OHs silently try to detect the problem, or is it meant to help them learn to work with shooters in diagnosing and correcting problems?  The groups that came through my position took both approaches.  (I like the latter...we want instructors interacting with shooters, so let's train that way.)

--To solidify the expectations, have an instructor demonstration to set expectations, similar to the rest of the POIs...let the students see how to start out looking at the big picture, move in closer to look at the next set of issues, and end up on the ground with the shooter (and how to work into the shooter's personal space naturally and comfortably).  Make it something where the instructor really has to get in there.  (One of mine was blinking-leading-gradually-to-bucking....only a few folks got down on the ground to see my eyes blinking away beneath my cap brim.) 

And let them see the instructor talk to the shooter!  I felt like 3 of 8 groups really tried to engage me.  I know our IITs engage shooters on the line, so I felt this was largely the result of folks thinking that this was intended to be a test of their superpowers of observation rather than a fully interactive exercise...seeing a demo would put that to rest.

Having SBs be "Julie, Your Cruise Director  ~~:)" for each group makes sense to me--that was a good call!

And some of our IITs were so on the ball it was a little scary.   Some of them picked up the issues like magic and swept right in to how to correct the problem.   :bow:
"You don't know they're all Riflemen.  They might just be people with rifles." - Zazzles, 9/22/12

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

"There are no accidents in my philosophy. Every effect must have its cause. The past is the cause of the present, and the present will be the cause of the future." - Abraham Lincoln

"My biggest decision this week?  Well...long story short, I went with the mild sauce."

wizard

First of all, let me thank everyone for letting me play.  ^:)^ What a great weekend.

ITB, Great event as usual, but we still appreciate all the effort you put into making it look easy.

Rascal, thanks for feeding me, and you still give the best hugs  :)). Blue Hats; Thank your for your service; You guys are the "Special Sauce" that makes an event run so well.

"Shout out" to the youngsters; I wish more of the young people I run into, were of your calibre O0

Red hats, you guys & gals set a standard to aspire too. Thank you.

Orange Hats... Hmmm what can I say but...  ~~:) Work harder. Work faster. Work smarter. We have a country to save; and thank you for counting me among you :bow:.

You guys who made the border raid; thanks for joining us. Fresh eyes and ideas are always a bonus. Goldfish, some of us northern boys can swim too. See photo at left, you'll know what it means.

Thanks again, Richard.
I get things done because I get things done.

Zazzles

This was probably the best IBC ever! I learned so much. It was also pretty great getting ice cream and eating it in front of the boys  >:D
And I think that this might be true

SteelThunder

Quote from: Zazzles on January 28, 2014, 01:12:16 PM
This was probably the best IBC ever! I learned so much. It was also pretty great getting ice cream and eating it in front of the boys  >:D
And I think that this might be true

+300 experience points to The Zazz for using a venn diagram
NRA Patron Member, SAF Life Member
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor, RSO
Warlord of the West

Ultima vox civis
"Learning occurs only after repetitive, demoralizing failures." - Pat Rogers
"Silence in the face of evil is itself evil; God will not hold us guiltless. Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer
"So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart." - Tecumseh
"Never attribute to treachery, that which can adequately be explained by incompetence" - Bonaparte, Hanlon, et al

Zazzles

 Sorry it's Gibsons. She just stole my words to produce it

George Hacker

Tell your Pacific Northwest facebook friends to "like" and post in the Northwest Region Project Appleseed page.

"You can't miss fast enough..."  "Aim small, miss small."

mac66

As long as we are getting serious, my opinion about the trouble shooting breakout session is positive. Great idea. I also know that we were planning something similar for breakout with the history. Not problem solving but walking the IITs through the history.

Back to the trouble shooting....Green hat mentors traveling with the IITs was good. I personally think the silent observation method is a good teaching tool. Students  observe, write down what the problem is,  then discuss. Identify the symptoms, then diagnose the problem, good learning methodology and keeps things moving.  IITs need to learn to observe and assess quickly and move on to the next shooter.  I do however understand that some problems can't be assessed without some role playing and questions.   
Status quo, you know, is Latin for 'the mess we're in'.
Ronald Reagan

Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers

The King has degenerated into a tyrant and forfeits all rights to his subjects' obedience."  Patrick Henry, 1765

Motivation?...The best solution to morale problems is to kill all the unhappy people  Ghenghis Khan

Oz

Quote from: Zazzles on January 28, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
Sorry it's Gibsons. She just stole my words to produce it

Gibson knows very well what she is about--take something good, use it yourself, and improve on it if possible if it advances the mission!   O0
 
I can't improve on Slim's Sasquatch hunt but I will copy it as often and as well as I can!   -:)
"You don't know they're all Riflemen.  They might just be people with rifles." - Zazzles, 9/22/12

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not."
― Dr. Seuss, The Lorax

"There are no accidents in my philosophy. Every effect must have its cause. The past is the cause of the present, and the present will be the cause of the future." - Abraham Lincoln

"My biggest decision this week?  Well...long story short, I went with the mild sauce."

Farm girl / Rochelle

Can anyone tell me the name of the movie we began to watch Saturday night? I would like to watch all of it. Thanks
"If you want something you'll find a way, if not you'll find an excuse"...Superheat

ITB

"I will either set my country free, or shed my last drop of blood to make her so." -  Dr. Joseph Warren

" ITB glides through the highways of the Midwest like a Velvet Fog, unfettered by mortal speed limits, leaving only the knowledge of American Heritage and Marksmanship (and a faint whiff of ghost pepper sauce) in his wake." - Oz

CF KD requal - Muenster, TX  11/25/23

devilkitty

As there has been considerable discussion of Sunday's "troubleshooting" session (which I thought was a fine idea), I would like to offer a modest proposal.

After the IITs present the points of instruction in the break-out sessions on Saturday, they move on (one click, as it were) to the next station. There they will diagnose a problem pertaining to the POI they just presented, modeled by the next RH/GH. Using the prone position as example:


  • The prone POI is demonstrated.
  • Break-out session begins. IITs each present the POI with their break-out leader(s), as was done.
  • IITs move one "click" around the room, where the next station's break-out leader(s) will model a prone position with one or more errors. Two to three minutes should be quite sufficient for the IITs to note the problem(s).
  • IITs confirm their observations with RH/GH on station.
  • Break-out session ends. Regroup for the next POI.

If done with a modicum of efficiency, this would not greatly extend the overall time spent. Not all POIs will lend themselves well to the inclusion of items three and four above; IMC and KD certainly would not as they can't really be quickly modeled in a physical sense.

The advantage I believe this offers is immediate application, hence reinforcement, of the POI discussed -- knowing what to look for in each position, in the six steps, etc. -- which builds confidence and would aid in putting it all together for the Sunday troubleshooting session (at which I admit to being a bit overwhelmed).

Stacking the bricks, as it were, rather than dropping them in a pile and hoping it looks like a wall: Build the edifice of knowledge, that we may help build Riflemen.
Charlie
Grovertown, Ind.

Have Blue Hat -- Will Travel
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers." -- Thomas Pynchon
"A people who forget who they are will become whatever they are told they are." -- Graywolf

mac66

Status quo, you know, is Latin for 'the mess we're in'.
Ronald Reagan

Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. Will Rogers

The King has degenerated into a tyrant and forfeits all rights to his subjects' obedience."  Patrick Henry, 1765

Motivation?...The best solution to morale problems is to kill all the unhappy people  Ghenghis Khan

Fly-Boy

I'm happy to be an orange hat and am ready to help. Btw thanks, ITB, for teaching me poker.
I liked the troubleshooting and liked the shoot bosses being a tour guide.
Thank you Wizard for the first aid kit. I love the knife!  ^:)^
Thanks for the food, Rascal21, it was great.


Fly-Boy gets an Orange Hat! by excitedVulcan, on Flickr
This is only temporary....unless it works - Red Green

"Who ever looks upon them as an irregular mob will find themselves very much mistaken. For they have men among them who know very well what they are about." - Brigadier Genral Lord Hugh Percy

ITB

Attached "IMC by Superheat" to the original post, as requested.
"I will either set my country free, or shed my last drop of blood to make her so." -  Dr. Joseph Warren

" ITB glides through the highways of the Midwest like a Velvet Fog, unfettered by mortal speed limits, leaving only the knowledge of American Heritage and Marksmanship (and a faint whiff of ghost pepper sauce) in his wake." - Oz

CF KD requal - Muenster, TX  11/25/23