Just got a call from my daughter after her first day at her first Appleseed - she was soooo hyped!!! As I mentioned she is good with a pistol and a shotgun, not much experience with a rifle, but she scored 177 today, so maybe tomorrow... She can be the family Rifleman! How cool is that?? She is mightly impressed with the instructors and the quality of instruction. Thanks muchly folks for all your time and efforts. Forgot - she said there was a turnout of about 45 folks there today.
Goatlady,
At first I thought you had the trip!
Great to hear a first hand report, keep 'em coming.
Hawkhavn
A tad far for me, HH, but at least ONE of my chillin still listens to their mama!! LOL.
Goatlady,
If your daughter is half as determined as you are, the folks in WY. need to look out.
smle
SHE DID IT!!!!!!got her patch and she is soooo jazzed! On a borrowed rifle to boot. I think she said 5 others qualified also today one a teenage gal. Those Westerners can shoot! Can you tell I'm proud of her? Thanks, again Appleseed. You're doing good work and it is appreciated and definitely has positive results.
Tell her congats, and to the others also. And what did I say about determination? Must be in the genes.
Having seen her mothers' determination it was inevitable. If fact a few more days on the line you could have your own Riflemans patch. Hint. Hint. ;) ::)
smle
What a great two days in Douglas. The weather was a bit challanging but normal for Wyoming...Wind, rain, mud, but everyone survived. Did I say anything about the wind? Rifle cases, magazines, targets all went flying.
I took quite a few pictures on the second day and hope to post some of them for everyone to see. Congratulations to all those who made "Rifleman". And to everyone else, keep practicing, your time will come! Perseverance is the key to success, hang in there.
The instructors were far better equipped to handle the instructional requirements than I could have imagined. They were all very inspirational, kind, and most important, knowledgeable.
My favorite was the "Ball and Dummy" drill, it really woke me up as to what I was doing incorrectly.
"Fred" was there and provided additional inspiration not only with his understanding and knowledge of 19 April 1775, but in the manner he told the story ( he can instruct marksmanship equally well). I got the feeling he was telling the story/our history with all his heart. I know that he and the instructors have talked/spoken about "our" history many times, but for me it was the first. The way they spoke only made me want to know more and more. Again, I salute all of you, you are true "Patriots" in the purest sense.
Finally, let me say, I can't think of any other day as well spent than in the companionship of the individuals that I had the great pleasure of being with on this September weekend.
> I think she said 5 others qualified also today one a teenage gal. Those Westerners can shoot!
Close, but she was only TEN! Using a scoped 10/22 she scored a 236 and beat her dad (;D)shooting an iron-sighted M1A who scored a new PR of 220!
And yes goatlady your daughter represented the family very well. It was great to see a lot of women at this shoot, with several daughters, wives, sisters and significant others.
J-T, If I my travel weary bones understand you correctly the very young lady that we were helping scored a 236? If that truly is the case, please tell her that Wheeler44 is very happy for her.
The folks in Wyoming are incredibly hospitable, very helpful, and seem to be a persistent bunch.
It was a great pleasure for Garth and I to help out with this shoot.
I'll post more after sleep.
Wheeler44
p.s. Congratulations Goat lady, I met your daughter and she represented your family just fine.
The Douglas Wyoming Appleseed is now, in one sence of the word, over. Targets are pulled, line clean, Riflemen patches awarded to the weary folks who fired the scores to win them, and the long drives or flights have taken us back to our homes. But is Douglas Appleseed REALLY over? I sincerly doubt it. We had the privelige to instruct an outstanding group of folks this week end and from that we derived a continuation and an addition to the program, we called for those who are willing to take up the fight for liberty and had a responce! 2 new IITs were generated and will begin the traning required to instruct for the program this fall at a Wyoming IBC.
The Douglas gun club needs a big thank you.
The weather however, did not.
I saw some truly amazing transformations this week end, from almost hit the backstop, to 180 scores, one outstanding gent came out of a 10 year vacation from shooting to fire a huge score, another drove from Laramie where college is his focus, to fire a 230 or round about,our smallest shooter a 236!!! Who can argue with success stories like that? Well, on the other hand we had those who did not acheive the the scores nessasary to win the patch, does that make them unsuccessful? NOT ONE BIT. More motivated, proabably, and I have a feeling we will see them again.
This was an interesting event, we had some attendees of note from several orginazations, the President of the Wyoming State Shooters Association, The founder of the Free State Wyoming group and our own, Fred, all authors, and men who know of what they are about.
The stats:
Bear with me here, the rain made my sharpie marker notes disintegrate,
Shooters- 43
Favorite rifle- Ruger 1022
Next Favorite- Ar15 variants
Next- M1A1
Note, we had some way cool rifles here, Galil's, Duraganov, CTMES and one wretched Rem 597
Top Temp-60
Low Temp- 32 1/2, 1/2 degree colder it would have snowed
Top Wind speed-(gusts, 35-40 mph)
Ave wind-5-8 mph.
CREW; Fred, Colonial shooter, Newman, Grandpaw, Wheeler 44, GarthVader, JT, Beaulahtrash, risky buisness
What a weekend. Cold, crappy weather but warm happy hearts. Both from the participants and the instructers. I was very motivated by everyones attitudes. This was my first shoot and I was greeted warmly and made to feel like one of the gang. Not even feeling weird that I came by myself and knew no one. A great big thanks to Colonial Shooter and Risky Business for all the extra tips and pointers. Every one of the instructers went above and beyond the grade and was appreciated by all.
Cant wait to start my two boys on shooting. If the ten yr old girl can do that well with 236 pts, then I think my boys will too, eventually. Am looking forward to more trigger time. I think I have come down with the bug. But, I guess, that was the point of the shoot huh? Thanks again Sam.
Thank you to everyone who made it, I had a great time.
thanks to all who came out and got a dose of the fire hose. I am amazed at the level of commitment of these students. The youngest at 10 scored the highest with a 236. that is the future of the nation and our program. Glad I could help all of the students. I look forward to the privilege of seeing all of you on the trail in the near future.
The blasted weatherman said the Douglas, WY weekend would be 50-60 both days, partly/mostly sunny, chance of thunderstorms in PM.
Thank heaven Fred left hot humid NC with nothing but short sleeve shirts and no rain gear (I've been off the Appleseed Trail for a while, and it shows...you always go prepared! :( :D) but had the brains to stop and see Riflewoman in Denver on the way up to WY - and to borrow Riflewoman's "Instructor" sweatshirt - which is all he had in terms of protection for the weekend - although, as noted above, the low temp was near freezing, and particularly on Sunday, people seemed to notice that Fred kept adding T-shirts under that sweatshirt (final count, on getting back to the motel room: 11 under the sweatshirt, + one rolled up as a neck scarf ;D). If instructor Grandpa hadn't come up with an extra carhart on Sunday PM, maybe Fred would still be out there on the range, frozen solid until spring. ::) (Thanks, Grandpa! You're a life-saver!)
Since there are no bad Appleseeds, this was another good AS. ;D Solid Americans, concerned (at least some of them) about the future of the country, and rolling off the couch to maybe pick up a bucket and start bailing...
But, this being the first 'free' Appleseed, there are lessons to be learned. Of the 63 who registered, approximately 30 did not show up.
As a result, instead of 70+ on the firing line (with walkons), there were 40+ people on the line.
The lesson is this. Thirty people each made a choice to come or not come. Since each had already pre-reg'ed, clearly at one point they wanted to come.
Yet when it came time to come, to actually get off the couch, it was too much for them. They couldn't do it.
Each of them made that decision, each on his own. Each saying "It won't matter if I don't come, no one will notice anyway."
And so thirty made that decision - and it was quite noticeable on turnout.
Since we don't have 'free' Appleseeds as a regular thing, it was a silly decision - miss this one, and there'll prob never be another chance.
In fact, miss this one, and the likelihood of there not being another one soars. Put on a free AS, and half the people who pre-reg decide not to show? Why do it, then?
Worse, it cost the program money, as if we'd known in advance, we could have had fewer instructors there, some of whom came from adjoining states - and fewer expenses.
Is there a better lesson that what YOU, the individual, does - counts?
You're only one person, but the decision you make is made by many others, and the ship, as a result, sinks - because there's too few to bail, because each of the no-shows is one set of hands less - and too many are making the decision that "whether I am there or not doesn't really matter - I'm only one person."
Everyone out there, on Battle Road, on April 19th, 1775 was one person.
It was critically important that every one of those persons show up. They did.
But not in the 21st century, in America. In 21st-century America, they don't show up.
I mentioned to the Appleseeders: How do you measure a society's love of liberty? The answer is: by the number of its citizens willing to turn out to protect and defend it.
By that standard, the uneducated (not a high school diploma among the lot of them) country yokels that turned out on 4/19 represent a society with a far greater respect and love for liberty than 21st-century America.
We hear all the time that in America, it's the individual that counts.
If you want to count, however, you have to show up. If you don't show up, you may count, but not like you want yourself to count.
It's a lesson that needs learning. And this Douglas free Appleseed is all the evidence you need that you make yourself count. Or you do not.
We are not going to save the country, will never have a Nation of Riflemen, will fail in our Mission - if you don't show up.
And if you don't show up, the enemies of liberty triumph. The American Revolution is tossed on the trashpile of history.
Man, that's gotta hurt - if you read those words, and let understanding sink in.
Just how much are you willing to sacrifice in order to stay on the couch, and sleep?
Your country? Your history and tradition? The sacrifice of the Founders? Liberty for your kids? The future of your kids?
It was said in a very recent that the 'busiest weekend in America' is an AS weekend. That people can't come to an Appleseed, because X falls on that weekend, or Elton Jon will be in town that weekend, or it's "National Walk Your Cat Weekend", etc. It's simply another way of saying that AS is last on your list of priorities.
You can also say that sloth on the couch, sleeping on watch, while your country sinks, liberty disappears, your family's future gets blacker, says that nothing - nothing! - is more important to you than staying glued to that couch. Like some meth head, you'll sacrifice everything for that #1 on your list - laying on the couch. (If you're not laying on the couch, if you are working to save your country [just not at Appleseeds], let us know here, and tell us what you're doing. If you're doing something better than AS, we'll prob all join you...)
Most of the above may be useful when you talk to your friends, as in asking them "how much are you willing to pay to stay on the couch, doing nothing? Your liberty? Your family's future? Do you like what's been happening in this country the past few decades? No? But not willing to try to change it? Gonna let someone else do it? Can you name that person for me?" etc...
This Appleseed was unique in that Boston of Boston's Gun Bible fame showed up and helped out with the instruction - you usually have to pay BIG bucks to be able to listen to him teach on the line - thanks, Boston!
On Sunday, if you paid attention and weren't trying so hard to shoot your own Rifleman score, you could have seen Boston, right there on the firing line, firing right along with everyone else on the AQT. (I suspect it was his first. Boston loving a challenge, I daresay it won't be his last. ;D)
A remarkable Appleseed, some important lessons to be learned, some great people showing up.
We may see the Wyoming program shift into high gear as a result. And it will, if you show up, willing to become part of this program, willing to aid in the effort to save your country and make a Nation of Riflemen. Heck, don't worry about America - make Wyoming a State of Riflemen, and you'll have done your job - at least until we then draft you into saving the rest of the country. ;D
Now, a final comment, and solicitation of your views. We originally intended a long-range component on Sunday afternoon. For various reasons (there were other people shooting on the long range, time and weather constraints) we did not do it, but simply remained at 25m all day Sunday.
If you've read much on this site, you know that all the marksmanship skills can be taught at 25m except for wind doping and actual zeroes at distance (but you know your 25m zero is pretty much on at 200 yards - 300 for AR15s with sights in the carry handle).
But you also know that we like to do the long-range component of Appleseed simply to pound that lesson home - to let you prove it, for yourself.
Was there anyone posting here who really missed going up to the long-range? (Let us know.)
Quote from: Fred on September 08, 2008, 10:46:56 PMWas there anyone posting here who really missed going up to the long-range? (Let us know.)
For 3 of the people I know personally that didn't come, the lack of a guaranteed long-range component was a deal breaker.
But in terms of the overall Appleseed mission I don't necessarily think LR is required. Maybe at some point in the future we can have an "Advanced Appleseed" or something that would only have a half-day or so at 25m and the rest of the weekend would be at full distance.
JT, don't know that I understand your comment. We planned there to be an LR component to this event - the fact that we didn't have one was a choice made Sunday around lunch.
As far as anyone knew, right up to Sunday at lunch, there was going to be an LR component - you may even remember that I mentioned on Saturday that there'd be one.
So your three guys can't use that as an excuse for not showing up.
QuoteFor 3 of the people I know personally that didn't come, the lack of a guaranteed long-range component was a deal breaker.
But in terms of the overall Appleseed mission I don't necessarily think LR is required. Maybe at some point in the future we can have an "Advanced Appleseed" or something that would only have a half-day or so at 25m and the rest of the weekend would be at full distance.
Not to go off on a rant, but...
I remember Fred telling us (on Saturday) that Sunday would include LR shooting, but I understand the reason for not going to the LR range. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (yes there were "Member" shooters on the LR range Sunday, you could hear the gongs being hit). And, if your that good (at 25m), you should be able to achieve your own zero's at LR.
I would like to of seen your friends shoot the 25m targets before worrying about what they can do at LR. I too need LR zero's but that didn't stop me from "trying" to shoot as much 25m as I could. Also, you can't tell me that shooting the 25m tagets doesn't help for LR. Those 3 individuals might not have been able to shoot LR but they would of certainly benefited from shooting the 25m targets, all shooting improves the overall ability of the individual.
As Fred said (and I'm paraphrasing), "Either you were there or you weren't."
Oh, I have a few pictures of Fred with all the "added" clothing. What a hoot!
Update...
Last night we had a "Range" meeting at the trap clubhouse. Appleseed was discussed at length. It seems that the "Appleseed" folks scored a big one. Only positive comments were made, and it appears that Douglas is + positive on returning Appleseed events.
Granted that I'm just a member of the FFSA and do not have an official position but my readings from the meeting were very good.
I hope that "Appleseed" contacts the Douglas FFSA so that they may continue to use our facilities in such a noble cause.
Already done, Sorry I couldn't make that meeting however, we are scheduled to have a RBC followed by an AS in April/May and another AS in the fall. Great shoot, need to add another rifleman to the totals. A target that I scored was added incorrectly and was brought to my office to redo. The corrected score was a 212. Another instructor will come out of this as well.
Here are some of the pictures that I took...
Note: You can scroll the pictures to the right to see "full" pictures at the bottom of the post.
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-796X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-815X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-800X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-805X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-810X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-822X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-814X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-819X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-820Xa.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-825X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-824X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-829X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-836X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-826Xa.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-837X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-840X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-842X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-833X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-845X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-852X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-855X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-856X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-861X.JPG)
(http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/500/MVC-864X.JPG)
Nice pics.
Out of curiosity, did the man doin' it for the Kaiser qualify?
It certainly looks like he was prepared at least with the stripper clips.
Gotta admire a man who still drives stick.
Quote from: wcmartin1 on September 12, 2008, 12:15:06 AM
Nice pics.
Out of curiosity, did the man doin' it for the Kaiser qualify?
It certainly looks like he was prepared at least with the stripper clips.
Gotta admire a man who still drives stick.
I don't think so, as I remember, he had some "saved" rounds. But I do remember him saying that it was a lot of fun...
One of the photos shows a fellow in prone with an M1A, but no magazine. I presume some ball-and-dummy drill was being done, or maybe in the prep period. The rifle is wearing a 1907 sling, but he's using it in a hasty sling fashion. Wasn't there anyone at this shoot who could show him the correct way to loop up with a 1907? (I know Fred-of-the-11-Tshirts was there, surely he knows how to set one up....)
I had a great time at Douglas. Thanks to all the instructors and Fred for the training and the history!
Quote from: Spatulaman on September 12, 2008, 02:44:07 AM
One of the photos shows a fellow in prone with an M1A, but no magazine. I presume some ball-and-dummy drill was being done, or maybe in the prep period. The rifle is wearing a 1907 sling, but he's using it in a hasty sling fashion. Wasn't there anyone at this shoot who could show him the correct way to loop up with a 1907? (I know Fred-of-the-11-Tshirts was there, surely he knows how to set one up....)
Ball and dummy drill is correct. He scored rifleman that day.
I am the one with the M1a minus a mag and it was ball and dummy. The young girl smiling in one of the other photos came with me (5 people all together) she was 14 years old and was not even hitting paper at the beginning of day one and by the end of day two she scored a 120 on AQT, pretty good for her 4th time ever shooting a firearm. That should be advertisement enough for just how great the instructors are. Plus she is so jazzed about it she has 4 girls from her highschool wanting to go and half my girlfriends co-workers too, sounds like a really good reason to buy more rifles to lend out. I scored rifleman that day, as well as my brother, who was the one that colonial had to review at his work, so I think the total is 6 rifleman out of the weekend. We are all still humbled by the 10 year old that scored 236.
I am working on getting some land to set up a AS here in Casper, hopefully before the weather turns to snow but its looking like a early winter here so at least by spring. Its truly a great program.
Some good pictures there. Why not post a few here... http://www.flickr.com/groups/rwva/
Thanks, goatlady, for the thread. You've a right to be
very proud of your daughter; she did great!
_____________
While I've shot the AQT before years ago, this was the first
time I'd done it in a full-on Appleseed. (I've shot many EICs.)
With an unfamiliar Saiga that I was trying out, I shot a 194.
I don't get to usually blame things on the rifle, but this time I do! :D
Zero shifted 1.5" to the left halfway through the AQT, and three
flyers during prone missed even the 3-ring. There's a limit to the
side-scopemount of the AK-style rifles, and they can get wonky.
(I hadn't zeroed the front sight, and could not without the tool.)
When it all behaves itself, the Saiga is a 2.5-3MOA gun.
My jury is still out whether it's a viable MBR for the man on a budget.
biathlon, thanks for the ammo, as I hadn't come out to shoot.
I'll bring a familiar M1 or M1A next time! ;D
________________
Thanks to Fred for coming out, and all the local instructors!
It was well-run weekend, and I enjoyed helping out and meeting
friends and readers, new and old!
It was great to see so many younger folks, and ladies there.
If Appleseeds can attract girls and women, the boys and men will
begin to show up in numbers. ;)
Boston
Oh wow - nice shooting range there! Thanks for the pictures, folks, I haven't see shannon in a few years and there she was!!
Quote from: Spatulaman on September 12, 2008, 02:44:07 AM
One of the photos shows a fellow in prone with an M1A, but no magazine. I presume some ball-and-dummy drill was being done, or maybe in the prep period. The rifle is wearing a 1907 sling, but he's using it in a hasty sling fashion. Wasn't there anyone at this shoot who could show him the correct way to loop up with a 1907? (I know Fred-of-the-11-Tshirts was there, surely he knows how to set one up....)
Yes there were those of us who know how to use the 1907 sling correctly. However, teaching someone to use it "correctly" can take some time. Time that wasn't available. For some shooters the term "overwhelming" came up quite a few times. Setting up that type of sling is something you want to have done "way" before you start shooting.
ack - Thumbnails, Toten Kopf, Thumbnails! ;D
Here's a couple more pics from the weekend ---
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00807.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00807.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00808.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00808.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00809.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00809.jpg)
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00811.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00811.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00812.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00812.jpg)
(http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00813.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00813.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/th_DSC00814.jpg) (http://i489.photobucket.com/albums/rr252/kirkofistan/camping/DSC00814.jpg)
Quote from: J_T on September 12, 2008, 10:06:33 PM
ack - Thumbnails, Toten Kopf, Thumbnails! ;D
I guess if your eyes are okay you can see something in those itty-bitty, teeny weeny pictures. However, I want to "SEE" something! Besides, when you click on "your" pictures, they are linked to something different (the rifle picture).
If the "Admin" doesn't like my size pictures, well, I guess that I won't post pictures anymore (what you see is what you get).
oops, fixed mine!! ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Toten Kopf on September 12, 2008, 10:18:02 PM
If the "Admin" doesn't like my size pictures, well, I guess that I won't post pictures anymore (what you see is what you get).
Naw. We like your pics just fine, Toten Kopf.
Keep 'em coming. ;)
J_T took those pics at my instigation. If you will closely at the first, do you see anything strange, maybe?
The second picture shows it better. Look at that wet firing line. (Fred, having been in WY numerous times, has never seen it rain, and has never seen a wet firing line there - and before this AS, could hardly conceive of one in WY - no wonder he was all agog!)
And then look at the third picture of the M1A. Say, that rifle looks wet, right? ;D
The other pictures show the centerfire (left end) of the firing line - only one 10/22 visible. Note the guy with the bolt-action, iron-sighted hunting rifle in the foreground. You can bet he was one smooth bolt-operator by the end of the day!
But notice the beauty and symmetry of the shooters, lined up on the targets, trigger knees pulled up (some more than others, it is true, courtesy of Mr. Arthritis in some cases :().
From an instructor's point-of-view, those images are pin-ups for the office wall... :D
Thanks, J_T, for posting them.
The third pic shows the gal who shot the 236. ;D I like how the 6th picture shows the diversity of the AS: a bolt, a Galil, M1 carbine, 2 M1A's and an AR. And that was just one section of the line, bring what you got and learn to make hits!
Hey there RB, what made you call the Rem 597 "wretched"? Any particulars. My son bought one this past summer while in South Dakota, and was knocking off prairie dogs at a lasered and witnessed 237 yds- from KNEELING. Did he just get a good one?
Spat