So... there's this local FFL who's a Keystone Arms dealer. And he had a stack of Appleseed flyers on his table at the last couple of gun shows... and some of the parents who bought Cricketts ALSO picked up the flyers. (OK, I'm the FFL in question. AND the shoot boss for the June shoot in Proctor, VT.)
So... the AQTs really weren't designed for single shot rifles, but I hate the thought that we might not do well by some younger shooters. Any suggestions on how to keep the younger shooters engaged if any DO show up with a Crickett? I mean, we can certainly show them the basics, and stage by stage AQTs won't be too bad - although I think that (depending on how many we get) I'll have to have a separate section of the line while they're shooting AQTs. Or maybe just use greencoat targets for any Crickett shooters? The more I think of that, the more I like it.
Love to hear any suggestions on this.
Crickett, sandbag, and red or greencoat target. My goal with the really young shooters is a) safety and b) six steps. Kids like the colorful targets, and it hopefully helps keep them from crossfiring on someone's AQT.
You might get more detailed feedback in the shoot boss or instructor forums, rather than this one (which I think is public).
Make them the designated sniper. As suggested above prone off bags or a rest.
Bug and zombie targets usually go over well.
Be sure to go over well how to safely de-cock the Cricket, IMO that is the biggest draw back to the rifle.
A chunk of 2x4 with 10 holes drilled in it to hold their shells.
Extra instructors/blue hats to help them and make sure muzzles stay pointed down range.
Saw a SB pin a balloon on a young shooter's target and had him try to hit it. Kept him interested, at least for a little while.
I've put out Daisy Shatterblast Targets (https://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Shatterblast-target-stakes-breakable/dp/B0002ILDKG/ref=pd_bxgy_200_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B0002ILDKG&pd_rd_r=KK1Y9065N1PNT05ZZWEA&pd_rd_w=76qcx&pd_rd_wg=L8dsN&psc=1&refRID=KK1Y9065N1PNT05ZZWEA) after instruction was complete and we rolled into AQTs.
Talk about a return on investment. Smiles all the way around as they apply the fundamentals and get instant feedback.
Now that I think about it, some self-healing targets may not be a bad idea, either...so long as they don't get shot and pushed in front of other students' AQTs...
As said above: sandbag, prone only, and I put a bungee cord around the barrel and sand bag so that their muzzle can not move side to side. Trust me on the bungee!
We hung clays on backers at a recent event. Went over really well with the younger crowd.
Having someone near by handing them ammo may help,, Parent, Blue hat, or Instructor. making sure They remain safe and have Fun.
and let them shoot an AQT, for the fun of it. 100, and 400 yard are possible, 200&300 yard done as best can be. all done from Prone, with rest.
We have pre-drilled wooden blocks, holding 22LR cartridges. Helps in keeping ammo clean.
We also use "Designated Marksman", thereby never saying "Designated Sniper".
We also use portable wooden rectangular benches to keep muzzles under control. The rifle is kept from sweeping the line by putting the rifle in the opening under the seat.
It is also AS practice never to let under age 10 children transition. Prone, only.
We have had as young as 5 year olds participate. She took a nap around 2 PM both days, with hearing protection. 30 minutes later, she was back on the line.
Some truly excellent ideas here. Thank you for all the feedback. I'll be saving these.
However, I think instead of the Daisy, I'll get some holders for clays - clays are much cheaper. http://a.co/7Toqzdf
Quote from: Guntuckian on May 09, 2018, 07:17:45 PM
It is also AS practice never to let under age 10 children transition. Prone, only.
It is? If so, where is this codified?
We have used cheez it crackers with Great success, mount them at 25 m or closer(for air rifles), got a nice little mounting hole for the push pin,in the center. Kids of all ages love to shoot em, and the field mice clean up the mess the next day.
America's favorite 4 moa snack cracker
Quote from: Monkey on May 10, 2018, 09:32:14 PM
Quote from: Guntuckian on May 09, 2018, 07:17:45 PM
It is also AS practice never to let under age 10 children transition. Prone, only.
It is? If so, where is this codified?
I think that's a reasonable rule of thumb, but the SB manual bases it on ability as far as I can tell: anyone who is only marginally able to transition for any reason (age, condition, etc) should stay in position (see page 9). We always run through it at least once with magazines out of reach and all instructors watching closely for potential problems.
To keep the nested quotes from getting too deep:
Quote from: maxwellbut the SB manual bases it on ability as far as I can tell: anyone who is only marginally able to transition for any reason (age, condition, etc) should stay in position (see page 9)
Ok. I had been operating under this premise; just wanted to make sure I didn't gloss over something in any of the available manuals that was directive in nature.
I did my first Appleseed to check it out as a possible activity for my children. I never expected to find it so rewarding, personally :)
In any event - it was obviously a great opportunity for my kids. Mary was 6 at the time. I picked her up a little stainless Cricket. We went through a few iterations before we found the perfect setup ...
Started with a rolled up shooting mat. That worked OK.
Tried sandbags - not quite tall enough.
Put a bipod on the rifle - found that she tends to push the rifle, which levers the stud out of the stock pretty quickly.
We ultimately settled on the perfect Cricket setup: one of those clamp on rail things from Amazon (cheap, chinese aluminum, < $10) like one would use to mall-ninja up a 10/22 (as one does), and a likewise cheap chinese-made picatinny mount bipod, also from Amazon.
That, my friend, did the trick. Rock solid, stable, and can take a lot of abuse. I keep several of the bipods and clamp on rails in my oh-crap-kit for Appleseeds now, in case I run into another kid with the same problem. One important thing, though - you have to be careful to get a very low profile one, meaning no top rail ... I had to try two or three, before I found one low enough to not obstruct the Cricket's front sight.
Don't disparage the lowly Cricket - after 3 or 4 Appleseeds, Mary was completing Stage 1 and Stage 4, and completing Stage 2 and 3 at least 50% of the time - meaning sending all of her rounds downrange, aimed. Watching her run that little single shot so fast (tiny fingers help, I'm sure) is one of the coolest things I've ever seen. She is, of course, the designated marksman ... must remain prone. But it's a great little rifle.
Here's a thought - for the kids to have a good time, it's important for them to feel like they've achieved something. A six year old, in their first Appleseed or two, is unlikely to shoot impressive scores (the first couple we were celebrating when she was on paper), especially with a Cricket (so-so sights and a short sight radius ... I can't shoot particularly respectable groups with it, myself). So learning to feed the single shot quickly gave her something to be proud of ... it was low-hanging fruit, an achievement, that kept her from getting discouraged and quitting. Folks would often comment on it when they saw it, which gave her confidence and made her feel proud, which helped motivate her to do Appleseed after Appleseed.
At the last Appleseed, she was shooting around a 170 or so ... she'll hit 210 at her next one, I'm sure ... I've been thinking of having some (obviously unofficial) "Designated Marksman" patches to give her when she does - I'm thinking just the silhouette of one of those prone green army men with the words "Designated Marksman" under it - she really covets my Rifleman patches, and wants one of her own badly ...
Quote from: Indecisive on September 19, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
At the last Appleseed, she was shooting around a 170 or so ... she'll hit 210 at her next one, I'm sure ... I've been thinking of having some (obviously unofficial) "Designated Marksman" patches to give her when she does - I'm thinking just the silhouette of one of those prone green army men with the words "Designated Marksman" under it - she really covets my Rifleman patches, and wants one of her own badly ...
Way to go dad!
At an Appleseed we had where a 7 year old scored Rifleman the same way (prone & bagged) the shoot boss gave him a Rifleman badge and wrote "Honorary" on one stripe then signed it on another stripe.
We explained that this was a reward for his hard work and that his next goal should be to do it with all the transitions. He was ecstatic that his hard work was recognized.
A Crickett, with Bruce Smith (9mm4545)Shooting it to make sure it was sighted in. Lets just say it was an Interesting sight to see.
One day It's Owner will get to shoot it. She is currently 4.5 years old. But She knows it is hers.
Lomshek - that's a great idea - my challenge is to strike just the right balance ... I want her to recognize the accomplishment, and feel recognized ... but still to realize that there's work yet to be done. Your approach sounds like a great one ... I might just steal it .. thank you :)
Quote from: Lomshek on September 21, 2018, 11:20:52 PM
Quote from: Indecisive on September 19, 2018, 07:19:34 PM
At the last Appleseed, she was shooting around a 170 or so ... she'll hit 210 at her next one, I'm sure ... I've been thinking of having some (obviously unofficial) "Designated Marksman" patches to give her when she does - I'm thinking just the silhouette of one of those prone green army men with the words "Designated Marksman" under it - she really covets my Rifleman patches, and wants one of her own badly ...
Way to go dad!
At an Appleseed we had where a 7 year old scored Rifleman the same way (prone & bagged) the shoot boss gave him a Rifleman badge and wrote "Honorary" on one stripe then signed it on another stripe.
We explained that this was a reward for his hard work and that his next goal should be to do it with all the transitions. He was ecstatic that his hard work was recognized.
It's never too early :)
My 4yo son loves to shoot his big sister's Crickett ... good opportunity to plant the "seeds" early - safety, eyes and ears, and kindle the interest ... always with me having a grip on the barrel, obviously.
Kindling the interest is easy with him, because at his age, anything Daddy and big sister enjoy is cool and attractive ...
I also strongly believe that the best way to keep children safe around firearms is to eliminate the mystery. I never contemplated, as a child, touching one of my father's guns without permission, because from about 4yo all I had to do was ask, and he'd take me out to shoot them. (I also feared the epic whoopin' I'd get if I did, which might have played a part as well :)
Quote from: TomM1Thumb on September 24, 2018, 09:48:21 PM
A Crickett, with Bruce Smith (9mm4545)Shooting it to make sure it was sighted in. Lets just say it was an Interesting sight to see.
One day It's Owner will get to shoot it. She is currently 4.5 years old. But She knows it is hers.
Quote from: dwarven1 on May 08, 2018, 06:07:57 PM
So... there's this local FFL who's a Keystone Arms dealer. And he had a stack of Appleseed flyers on his table at the last couple of gun shows... and some of the parents who bought Cricketts ALSO picked up the flyers. (OK, I'm the FFL in question. AND the shoot boss for the June shoot in Proctor, VT.)
So... the AQTs really weren't designed for single shot rifles, but I hate the thought that we might not do well by some younger shooters. Any suggestions on how to keep the younger shooters engaged if any DO show up with a Crickett? I mean, we can certainly show them the basics, and stage by stage AQTs won't be too bad - although I think that (depending on how many we get) I'll have to have a separate section of the line while they're shooting AQTs. Or maybe just use greencoat targets for any Crickett shooters? The more I think of that, the more I like it.
Love to hear any suggestions on this.
I like the idea
At Putnam County Gun Club in WV in 2010, I ran an event where we had a 4 year old shoot almost the entire weekend with a Cricket. He shot from prone, using a day pack as a rest. The Charleston Newspaper interviewed him about shooting. His quote was "I like my black rifle." His 10 year old brother completed the course and used a CZ Scout, I believe. His retired SF father used an AR. The father shot a rifleman score.
Safe and focused is more important than any age limit.
Several years ago an Indiana Shoot Boss made a video of him shooting an AQT with a Cricket. He had made an ammo holder for the stock.
It is probably still around here someplace.
Quote from: 2 clicks low on September 25, 2018, 06:51:32 PM
Several years ago an Indiana Shoot Boss made a video of him shooting an AQT with a Cricket. He had made an ammo holder for the stock.
It is probably still around here someplace.
Now, THAT video I want to see.
Quote from: dwarven1 on February 25, 2019, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: 2 clicks low on September 25, 2018, 06:51:32 PM
Several years ago an Indiana Shoot Boss made a video of him shooting an AQT with a Cricket. He had made an ammo holder for the stock.
It is probably still around here someplace.
Now, THAT video I want to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdI1reKSj7A
Quote from: 2 clicks low on February 25, 2019, 01:33:53 PM
Quote from: dwarven1 on February 25, 2019, 01:27:22 PM
Quote from: 2 clicks low on September 25, 2018, 06:51:32 PM
Several years ago an Indiana Shoot Boss made a video of him shooting an AQT with a Cricket. He had made an ammo holder for the stock.
It is probably still around here someplace.
Now, THAT video I want to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdI1reKSj7A
Wow. Thank you for posting it! I couldn't find it because I was spelling Crickett with two T's, no doubt!
Comments: I haven't tried using a loop sling on my Crickett yet. (I have one for my shop for customers to try on the range outside.) And that's definitely NOT a Crickett 4x32 scope on that rifle.
But I'd love to see a closeup of that ammo cuff he's got on there. That sure let him load faster. Probably homemade? Nice job.
I'm sending the link to this to Jim Pencak, Keystone Sporting Arms' national sales manager. I'm sure he'd love to see it.
Quote from: dwarven1 on February 25, 2019, 08:01:36 PM
But I'd love to see a closeup of that ammo cuff he's got on there. That sure let him load faster. Probably homemade? Nice job.
Here's a photo that I found:
(https://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=53623.0;attach=159314;image)
I seem to remember that Techres said it was made of leather, but I'm not positive.
I found something similar on Amazon, but haven't gotten one to try out yet:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004WUNGSC
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/4111bHzlRLL.jpg)
My youngest son started with a Crickett at 9. After 2 or three Appleseeds, he moved to the Marlin 795. He shot Rifleman at 10 and 3 months. Nothing wrong with a Crickett. I sold mine to get another 795.
Quote from: dart67eb on February 28, 2019, 03:51:46 PM
My youngest son started with a Crickett at 9. After 2 or three Appleseeds, he moved to the Marlin 795. He shot Rifleman at 10 and 3 months. Nothing wrong with a Crickett. I sold mine to get another 795.
I hear a lot of people bemoaning that the Crickett can't be used when the kids get bigger; Keystone just came out with stock spacers for the synthetic stocked ones: https://www.keystonesportingarmsllc.com/product/crickett-spacer-kit/
I put a set on mine (I keep one for the shop for customers to try) and it makes the LOP fit me. 'Course, I'm only 5'6", but still.