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KD in Lapeer?

Started by T. WOLF, March 25, 2017, 12:16:01 PM

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T. WOLF

I just want to confirm what I'm seeing on the schedule here... Known Distance events at the Lapeer Sportsmen's Club this year??  Awesome!!  Thanks for putting these together. See you there in June! :snipersmi
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leaders, and concerting measures in opposition to each other." ~John Adams 1780

Caliper

Your eyes do not deceive you!

Now, we haven't played a trick with the space-time continuum, nor bought a big bulldozer, so Lapeer still only has 200yd. Thus, this will not be Full Distance, but 1/2 distance with 1/2 size targets for centerfire, meaning 50-100-150-200yd for the 4 stages. Rimfire will be 1/4 scale, or can attempt 1/2 scale (200yd is a long way for .22LR, but with the right scope adjustments...)  Space is also fairly limited due to the rifle range construction.

The June event will be one day and exclusively on the rifle range.

In Nov; Sat will be on the pistol range at 25yd and Sun will be on the rifle range.

T. WOLF

Excellent! 1/2 range distance with 1/2 size targets = 1/2 the hiking.

This KD Appleseed is all about taking the fundamental techniques you've taught me on my 22 rimfire and translating them to my centerfire .223 rifle. The concepts are the same, but it's still a brand new rifle on the firing line. I'm looking forward to taking this next step with you guys - thanks again for putting it together.

I already booked my spot for June. For November, could you guys consider offering a Sunday-Only rifle range option? I'm not looking forward to another weekend-long camping trip in Lapeer in November. Perhaps there could be some kind of option for a Rifleman to skip the Saturday session at the pistol range, and book the Sunday KD session at a reduced price? Either way, thank you.
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leaders, and concerting measures in opposition to each other." ~John Adams 1780

Caliper

Half the hiking :), but unfortunately only half the wind :(  Once you know your comeups, wind is the fun part.  ;)

Sorry, Eventbrite no longer has a one day option for a two day shoot. The idea behind one day at 25yd and a second at 200 is to provide returning Riflemen who might be a bit rusty a chance to knock that rust off first before hitting longer distance.  Just trying to always improve our instruction and find new things that help our shooters.

T. WOLF

#4
Quote from: Caliper on March 29, 2017, 04:22:13 PM
The idea behind one day at 25yd and a second at 200 is to provide returning Riflemen who might be a bit rusty a chance to knock that rust off first before hitting longer distance.  Just trying to always improve our instruction and find new things that help our shooters.

That's a good idea, and a solid approach to shooting.  I'm just stepping back to look at my calendar for a moment to see what's already been booked for Appleseed:

Appleseed 10/22/16
Appleseed 10/23/16
Appleseed 12/03/16
Appleseed 01/28/17 *(skipped saturday)
Appleseed 01/29/17
Appleseed 04/22/17
Appleseed 04/23/17
Appleseed 06/10/17
Appleseed 11/18/17 *maybe?
Appleseed 11/19/17


So - that'll be 10 Appleseed 'days' in a little over a year. It makes me happy to see these on the calendar because I love Appleseed.  And I'm sure my calendar looks nothing as crowded as yours, Caliper.  But, as you know, I have a wife and a step-son and a job too. And I don't exactly live around the corner from the Lapeer Co Sportsmens Club. You guys know I camp out in the wilderness for every one of these, right? Appleseeds require commitment from my family too, even though they aren't there on the firing line with me (I'm working on that). As long as I retain the flexibility to skip a saturday-session here and there (with shootboss permission), I have no complaints about paying for the days I can't attend. I'm 100% behind what we're doing here. I'm worried it might not be totally scalable for cases like me, but hopefully I am unique.

See you fellas in April. Don't forget to pack your Rifleman patches..  I intend on earning one.
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leaders, and concerting measures in opposition to each other." ~John Adams 1780

goodoldfriend

Hey T.WOLF,

Come on down to see us in Ohio. This is too late notice for the July KD this weekend. We also have one in November. As of today there are 11 spots left.

We would love to have you visit.
1st Appleseed 11/23/2012, Crittenden, KY
2nd Appleseed 7/16/2016, Wilmington, OH
3rd Appleseed 10/2/2016, Newark, OH
Rifleman (213) 10/2/2016

T. WOLF

Hi folks - sorry to resurrect an old thread, but turns out it's still relevant and I can't see the justification for starting a new one.

After the June 10th 'seed failed to sprout due to me being the only member signed up, Caliper graciously rescheduled me for the weekend KD event this coming November, effectively solving both our problems at once.

Goodoldfreind - thanks for the invitation, but I'm going to drop my brass on Michigan soil as long as I have the choice.  I originally hail from Upstate NY, so there's no bad blood - I would just rather shoot at a range close to my home (unless you're in Toledo). I actually have a large extended family in the Columbus area - it would be great to get them out to an Appleseed one day. We should look into that.

Back to Lapeer... I am very eager to get back on the line with you guys.  I was extremely disappointed to fall short of my patch in Fenton last April (previously covered in the after action report), but I am renewed in my commitment!  I caught up with my good friends Sam and Blackpowder Max a couple weeks ago, and it sounds like they are both on board for the KD event in November.  I could work on getting a newbie up there as well, but I understand a KD isn't the best opportunity to introduce a newbie.

How are we looking for attendees so far?  Is this event going to happen in November?  If so, I have a few parting questions:

What is the course of fire at a KD event?  I'm super comfortable prepping 2's & 8's for my 10/22, but what will I be prepping when I take my Ruger 556 to the firing line? Do I need to invest in some 10-rd mags? Does it matter which round I'm firing? And approximately how many rounds should I anticipate that Sunday?

Secondly, what scope would you recommend I invest in?  Scope troubles completely ruined my first two Appleseed events before I learned my lesson and invested in proper optics.  Even then I struggled to acclimate myself to the sight picture before I finally got settled in.  I don't want to repeat old lessons on a new rifle.  Iron sights are out of the question for me - my eyesight is quite poor.  I need recommendations for a brand/model of scope that will hold its zero well on .223 without breaking the bank.

Thanks in advance.
Your future rifleman,
Travis Wolf

"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leaders, and concerting measures in opposition to each other." ~John Adams 1780

number6

Opinions on optics are as varied as any other firearms topic.

Even to an adage that you should spend more on your optics than on your rifle, which may be a bit extreme these days.

I have had good experiences with Nikon having one of the P-223 variables and one of the fixed,
also with the Vortex Crossfire line.

There are others who will tell you, if you've got the money, there's no substitute for an ACOG out to 500 yds. They are a great piece of hardware and I used one to attain my Full Distance Rifleman patch.  But there are a lot of good options that will let you save some of that money for ammo and practice time.

Items I look for in no particular order:
Figure out your theoretical maximum envelope you're shooting, select a maximum magnification based on that value. 500yds doesn't require 12x, usually.  I'm usually happy with a max of 6-10x.

External Turrets, so you can easily dial come ups.

Resettable Turrets, so once you zero the rifle you can set the turret to the 'zero marking'
the P-xxx series of Nikons do reset but they don't lock, it's a lift-turn-release reset so abusive handling may move it off the 'zero marking'

MOA adjustments, for me I haven't made the leap to MIL, and probably wont.

A brand name, I'm still of the opinion that the name is worth something, however I have bought Cabelas' branded optics due to their satisfaction guarantee, not a fix it if it breaks warranty.  Not enough time on that rifle to really have an opinion yet on them.

If there's no cost difference, a larger tube and larger objective lens.

midwayusa.com has a great filtering function on their site for optics to narrow choices.

number6

You still have a choice. You can still salvage your right to be individuals. Your rights to truth and free thought! Reject this false world of Number Two . . . reject it NOW!!
Number 6, The Prisoner, Episode 11 "A Change of Mind"


"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them..." � Richard Henry Lee, "Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic"

"Rifles don't read" YellowHouseJake

"Lots of work?  Yup.  You wanna grow?  Suck it up, cupcake." - SteelThunder

Caliper

TWolf,
Attendance-wise...  Well, I'm only seeing one pre-reg for November. Don't worry, we'll run the event! I'll just recruit people to dress up as shooters or something. :) 

COF-wise, KD is the same as 25yd except no NPOA transitions. Maybe I'll have to see if we have space for that many targets out there depending on attendance...  We still prep 2+8 for the rapid fire stages because magazines run dry when shooting longer distances too.

For an AR, I like sticking to the standard capacity 20 or 30 rounders just because. Some use 10 rounders for more support arm clearance (30 rounders and a hasty sling can get awkward also)  Either solution is OK. Reliable mags are more important than anything else as always! 22lr or your favorite centerfire caliber (up to 8mm per Appleseed guidelines) are OK. In terms of round count, well, I'm not sure yet exactly. I've only gotten to run one of these before so not much history. A full distance event would see probably 3 AQT's in a day, doing 1/2 or 1/4 distance will obviously go faster and fewer shooters helps also. For a SWAG, I'd say 200 rounds should be safe.

Scope-wise, I've leaned more toward reticles with integrated comeups on them. I really like the Primary Arms scopes like this: http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-5x-prism-scope-w-patented-223-5-56-5-45x39-308-acss-reticle-pac5x  There's less to forget, just zero at 100 and then confirm reticle markings at other ranges. I think mine is a 4x version that I'm not seeing anymore, but it's effectively a poor mans ACOG. I've run this at one at a KD event. The other scope I ran at a KD shoot was a Vortex 2.5-10 with exposed turrets. Have to remember your comeups and remember to apply them that way but it is more flexible to different ammo/rifle configurations. All my other KD Appleseed experience has been using irons.

The other option is to just use a good quality typical commercial scope (3-4x power is plenty, keep it low) and go for BSZ style shooting. These aren't usually designed to have comeups constantly dialed back and forth so using BSZ works with the equipment. I haven't put this to use at an event yet (not enough events or time to get to them!) but for a full distance event you'd zero an AR at 300. For close range, either hold a bit low or just accept your hits being a bit high on the target. for 400yd, one would either adjust the scope or hold high. Take a look at the grey page in the info packed from past events and at the Riflemans comeups (2-2-3-4 for .223) for more on this. For a 1/2 scale/200yd KD, I'll let you figure out how a BSZ plan might work! :)  >:D 

Big thing is whatever you use, test it out beforehand. Get out to the range and zero it, test adjustments, check reticle graduations, etc. State-run ranges might not allow prone shooting, but you can adjust eye relief later at home. Don't overcomplicate things! Simple, reliable equipment that you are familiar with will beat out fancy equipment that you aren't familiar with any day.

T. WOLF

Thank you, Caliper! Looking forward to this!
"There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leaders, and concerting measures in opposition to each other." ~John Adams 1780