Inferno seed!

[Quinncannon]

Hello, fellow Appleseeders! I would like to know if only Florida awards Inferno Seed patches? I understand a shoot has to meet a set criteria to qualify as an Infernoseed, but I'm willing to make a raid down into Florida to earn that patch!

I have the regular patches, long range tabs and even a Winterseed patch, I need an Infernoseed patch to complete the set!

[DrRichP]

Hi Quinncannon,

I think the Infernoseed patch is awarded when a Rifleman score is achieved at a temperature index above 100 degrees.

I hope to see you on the line soon.

[Quinncannon]

Thank you, in that case, we can certainly do that in Arkansas!

[TomM1Thumb]

Inferno seed, Temp 100 degrees or better, Humidity 98% or better.

[brockkl]

That would take an extra special kind of dedication

[Quinncannon]

We have had an Appleseed in Little Rock, Arkansas in August, 2010, temperature was over 100 and humidity 100 too, that was when I took an Orange Hat! Hadn't heard of an Infernoseed then! It was my second Appleseed and second Rifleman patch, I would rather shoot in 0 degree weather any day than that!

[The Wolfhound]

We only get to have "Sauna seeds" here in Virginia.  95-98 degrees and 100% humidity with no air movement.  No patch for it just lots of sweat.  Downing 3-4 liters of fluid is necessary during the day. The meteorologists have an explanation but we seldom break 100 because of our high humidity. 

[MandyMonstar]

That's how a lot of summer 'seeds go here in Louisiana.  I wasn't aware of a special patch for it!  Maybe we should put that in our announcements in case there're people from the arctic North who want the authentic melt-into-NPOA experience.  It certainly does teach perseverance. 

[airplanejoe]

My understanding is that the conditions required to award an inferno seed patch is heat index of 100 F or greater. Actual temp and or relative humidity are relevant only to compute the heat index. As an example, a temp of 85 F combined with 90% relative humidity will give a 101.6 heat index.

Using the numbers QC gave in his posting, 100 F and 100 Relative Humidity will give a heat index of 196.3 F. Considering that 196.3 F = 90.7 C and that water boils at 100 C/212 F,  that is pretty warm indeed. Ouch!!

The point I would like to explore (since I'm not privy to any secret handshake) is this: Where in the Project Appleseed official literature is the award of patches addressed. Wherever that is, we should be able to find the parameters for different patches/conditions.

aj

[airplanejoe]

You can access a heat index calculator at www.weather.gov.

[Maximum Ordinate]

The point I would like to explore (since I'm not privy to any secret handshake) is this: Where in the Project Appleseed official literature is the award of patches addressed. Wherever that is, we should be able to find the parameters for different patches/conditions.

You can find that info here in the FAQ section of TIPs:  What are the Official Rifleman Patches  (you must be an instructor to see this page)

The very cool Infernoseed patch is an unofficial patch (and only available in sunny Florida I've been told.)  I'd still be proud to rock one.   

[airplanejoe]

(you must be an instructor to see this page)

[azmule]

Just 100 degrees?  Pffft!   

[PHenry]

To be perfectly accurate - the "Infernoseed" patch does not officially exist. It was created by a FL IIT (at that time, since turnt red hat) "Smoakingun", AKA Glen Smoak - a very fine instructor. We tried to get it approved, but Fred would have none of it, assuring me it gets just as hot in WI as it does in FL. I told him "Sir, you ain't from around here".

So, in the fine tradition of Appleseeds taught to me by my early mentors, we simply improvised. Glen had the patches made at his own expense and disbursed them to several SBs. I have to date awarded only one. The actual temp was 101 and the heat index was 127. It was on a covered line with fans, so I was of course reluctant, but I caved into peer pressure and gave up a red patch.

Contrary to any speculation otherwise - 100 degrees in a sub-tropical climate is not the same as 100 degrees up yonder. When the heat and humidity hit triple digits and the sun is high in the sky with no breeze - it isn't simply hot - it is dangerous. We move slower here in the summer for a reason. 

So to recap - there is no official Infernoseed patch, but there certainly orta be.

[Maximum Ordinate]

We move slower here in the summer for a reason. 

I didn't think that was the reason people from Florida moved slower... 

[TomM1Thumb]

"I didn't think that was the reason people from Florida moved slower...  "  Watch that Jack Thems Squirt gun words!!!!  HaHa

[Rev.357]

Ah. There it is, the dead jure - dead actor disjunction. The difference between what should be and what is. Isn't that what Appleseed about? Amen to: there oughta be. BTW: great signature quotes in this string.

[smoakingun]

OK. The infernoseed patch may become a reality for the rest of the program, not just Florida. The powers that be have requested samples so they may duplicate them.

When I proposed the idea several years ago, I was told "we are not a pach collecting organization" so, I spent the cash and it became a Florida thing. In the beginning the temp had to be over 100. Here in Florida, temps over 100 automatically bring humidity over 80%, that is brutal heat, the index on that is over 135. Wiser folks convinced me to make it based on heat index, so now the standard is a heat index of over 100, preferably measured on site with a kestrel. One other standard. The patch is not a repeat patch. If you don't get it the first time, you don't get it. The patch is intended to set apart those who persisted for the first one. It is always easier the second time you qualify.

[PHenry]

Smoak,
Many thanks for both the clarification and more importantly, your steadfast and effective service to our mission. 

[airplanejoe]

OK. The infernoseed patch may become a reality for the rest of the program, not just Florida. The powers that be have requested samples so they may duplicate them.

When I proposed the idea several years ago, I was told "we are not a pach collecting organization" so, I spent the cash and it became a Florida thing. In the beginning the temp had to be over 100. Here in Florida, temps over 100 automatically bring humidity over 80%, that is brutal heat, the index on that is over 135. Wiser folks convinced me to make it based on heat index, so now the standard is a heat index of over 100, preferably measured on site with a kestrel. One other standard. The patch is not a repeat patch. If you don't get it the first time, you don't get it. The patch is intended to set apart those who persisted for the first one. It is always easier the second time you qualify.

Thanks Smoak! There's the answer; since it doesn't officially exist, it can't appear in any official publication, so the only way to know is by what we called WOM (word of mouth). Another question/point for discussion: OAT 100F and 80 Humidity gives a heat index of 158.2 F. What is considered the "Danger Zone". I recall that in the military this was handled in the form of on-site ambulance/medics. Other than asking for persons who are qualified to handle mishaps, what do we do? The range I used to go to is at least 1 hour+ from civilization.
Just asking.
aj

[PHenry]

ItsanSKS and I hammered summer event protocols out long ago. Best to use only covered venues in hottest months and start earlier to get as much done before it gets ugly as possible. Incorporate hydration into the POI. If needed, walk the line during a short break and ask each shooter where their water is, do not move on until they lick it up and drink. Bring a case of water in a cooler with ice. Run the event pace a tad slower and keep a careful eye on shooters for heat stress.

This is why shoot bosses make the huge salaries. 

[The Wolfhound]

That sounds a lot like our protocol in Virginia.  Every time they come off the line, "drink water!' Some folks might think it is part of the line commands:  "prepare a magazine with XXXX rounds, drink water! Hydrate!" 

[airplanejoe]

ItsanSKS and I hammered summer event protocols out long ago.

WOM, or is it codified in an official publication. Scenario: a participant (or instructor) heat strokes , what next? Will there be anybody present to recognize what's happening?  How will that casualty be initially treated? What means of evacuation are present for serious cases? This all falls under the safety umbrella.

Again, just asking. Better to anticipate than to push the panic button later on. Paraphrasing, better to be preventive than corrective after the fact.

aj

[B.C.]

OK. The infernoseed patch may become a reality for the rest of the program, not just Florida. The powers that be have requested samples so they may duplicate them.

When I proposed the idea several years ago, I was told "we are not a patch collecting organization" so, I spent the cash and it became a Florida thing. In the beginning the temp had to be over 100. Here in Florida, temps over 100 automatically bring humidity over 80%, that is brutal heat, the index on that is over 135. Wiser folks convinced me to make it based on heat index, so now the standard is a heat index of over 100, preferably measured on site with a kestrel. One other standard. The patch is not a repeat patch. If you don't get it the first time, you don't get it. The patch is intended to set apart those who persisted for the first one. It is always easier the second time you qualify.

For not being a patch collecting organization I sure do love my patch collection. I refer to my infernoseed as a "patch of persistence" I think I lost two gallons of sweat getting it last summer. Worth it!   

[azmule]

Here in Southern Arizona, my official Appleseed first aid kit consists (by volume) of 30% blow-out kit and 68% chemical cold packs, with some band-aids, moleskin, and benadril tucked in around the edges.  Fortunately, no matter how remote the range, pretty much every vehicle features powerful AC, and a cold pack tucked under each armpit and a couple held against the neck under the ears is pretty efficient at holding core temperature.

It's something we routinely watch for, and fortunately, it hasn't yet gotten beyond the "take a break to douse and drink in the shade" stage.  Most AZ folks know the drill, but we still remind 'em to keep hydrating all day long.

ItsanSKS and I hammered summer event protocols out long ago.

WOM, or is it codified in an official publication. Scenario: a participant (or instructor) heat strokes , what next? Will there be anybody present to recognize what's happening?  How will that casualty be initially treated? What means of evacuation are present for serious cases? This all falls under the safety umbrella.

Again, just asking. Better to anticipate than to push the panic button later on. Paraphrasing, better to be preventive than corrective after the fact.

aj