Author Topic: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle  (Read 2220 times)

Offline Cubdriver

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Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« on: October 12, 2015, 01:50:23 PM »
I am looking for an Air Rifle "Liberty Training Rifle." My son is 6 years old and has a definite interest in shooting but I do not think he is quite ready for an Appleseed event. He has shot BB guns a few times with the Boy Scouts and has shot my nephew's Liberty Training Rifle as well. I would like to get him an air rifle to start with in the backyard so that we can practice with it and start getting him ready for an Appleseed Event. I am really looking forward to taking him to an Appleseed in the future, but I am not sure that he has the patience for an all day shooting event right now.

I started out with a Daisy Red Ryder and he has shot a Daisy Buck, but it is difficult for him to cock. I would like some sort of Air Rifle (BB, Pellet, or Air Soft) that would be easy for him to shoot, maybe has a decent trigger pull (to teach him the feel of the trigger break), and is lightweight that he can use to work on the fundamentals of shooting and handling a gun. If it does require him to cock it/pump it, I want it to be something that can be done with a "reasonable amount of effort." I have done a fair amount of research on my own, but am interested to see if anyone else has solved this problem or has any recommendations or first hand experience. I have tried to search the forum to no avail, so if this is addressed somewhere else, please let me know. Thank you for your help.

Offline 2 clicks low

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2015, 02:50:04 PM »
I would suggest a LTR instead of a bb gun. If he is ready to learn to shoot, he is ready for a LTR.

Unless you are a rifleman with teaching experience, please bring him to an Appleseed so we can teach him correctly the first time, no bad habits we need to break down the road.

As to being able to go a full day (or 2), bring him Saturday morning. If he gets tired you can take him home and come back Sunday morning or not. It's only $20 for kids.

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Offline olefido

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2015, 05:09:24 PM »
Like 2CL said if you think he is ready for it get him an LTR. However, if you also want something he can practice with in the backyard, might I suggest either:

http://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/repeatair-1077-177

or..,

http://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/pumpmaster-760x-rifle-177

I read that Peter Hathaway Capstick used to enjoy plinking with a Pumpmaster even after hunting Africa's biggest game because it let him cheaply practice holding, trigger squeeze, respiratory pause, etc. without touching the pocketbook or shoulder too much.

Offline Ames

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 11:36:05 PM »
Consider a refurbished Daisy M853 from CMP.  It's a single shot .177 cal. pellet rifle.  It does take a little bit of strength to cock it. 

https://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/air-rifles/sporter-air-rifles/

I have one and it's a remarkable little air rifle and very affordable.  Comes with fully adjustable aperture sights and sling.  Also has stock extensions so dad can shoot, too.  :-)

My son was a member of a youth air rifle team, therefore I was able to get a deal through CMP because of that program. 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2015, 07:12:21 PM »
Gentlemen, I really appreciate the advice. I bought a Daisy 853 from the CMP about 5 years ago and second that recommendation. I absolutely love it for myself and it allows me to practice in the garage, which is legal where I live. I don't think that it will work for my son though, because I would have to cut down the stock and it is "heavy" for a 6 year old. However, I do plan to let him shoot it, as he gets older.

I think I will look at the Crosman some more, however, I anticipate that I will run into the same problem with them that I do the Daisy Buck - it is hard to cock/pump. Right now he can cock them, but he has to put the gun vertically to cock it, or I can do it for him. I am also considering a semi-automatic C02 rifle. Unfortunately, the stores around me seem to only have 4-5 air rifles on the shelf at most, and they are in the box so you cannot feel them, which is why I am turning to the Appleseeders for help.

I looked at the Airsoft rifles, but was not impressed with the triggers. They do not really feel like a trigger because all they are doing is completing an electrical circuit to allow them to fire, thus there is no trigger "break." Also, I have not been able to find one that is just semi-automatic. A lot of them are full-auto, which is not an option that I want for a kid his age. Plus whenever I think of full-auto shooting, I am reminded of what Jeff Cooper said - paraphrasing, "If someone is shooting at me, I hope they are shooting on full auto."

I firmly believe in the Appleseed program. I shot on a competition team when I was in college and still learned a lot from the Appleseed shoot that I attended. When my son is ready (probably in the next six months), I can assure you, that he will attend an Appleseed event ever year. That way he can truly learn to be a rifleman and it will constantly reinforce the basic shooting skills. Unfortunately, the Appleseeds near my house are in frequent or a long drive. I drove 3 hours one-way when I did mine, spent the night, and I was exhausted at the end of it as a 34 year old and in good shape. Also, while I firmly believe in the fundamentals and learning them correctly from a young age, I think it is even more important to foster a love of shooting in my son. I talked it over with my wife, and she agreed that he does not have the patience at this point to enjoy an Appleseed event. He would think it was awesome in the morning, but would probably get tired and hot by the afternoon. That is not to say the situation will not be different in Jan/Feb, but that is our assessment now. I don't want him to get burned out or have a negative experience. I might be overly cautious of this, but I have seen it first hand with both my father and my father-in-law. For example, my father-in-law loves to hunt and spends an average of 80+ days a year in the woods now that he is retired, but none of his kids like to hunt because he did too much too soon with them. That is what I want to avoid and if it means he picks up some bad habits over a couple of months, but learns the fundamentals of how to safely handle a gun and gains a real passion for it, that is a risk I am willing to take.  Please realize that my heart is in the right place, but every situation and every kid is different. Many Appleseeds are in his future though.

Offline LadyVetch

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2015, 10:38:35 AM »
My son's (BellRinger - now 17, a rifleman, a KD rifleman and a NRA distinguished expert in rifle) would tell you his best memories are spending time with Grandpa in the basement with his red ryder bb gun that Grandpa had to cock for him.  They shot at cans and other fun stuff with a carpet backdrop and didn't worry about form or "doing it right" though SAFETY was TOTALLY stressed.  That was drilled into him over and over and over and over.

He also played with Nerf guns a lot in the hallway.  You would be surprised how well that helped him too.

When he was older, he was able to transition to competitive style shooting with training through Appleseed and the proof is in the pudding so to speak.

Let him be a kid and spend that time with him cocking his rifle for him and just enjoy shooting together.   That time is precious and fleeting.

LadyVetch
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our Country will stand in need of its experienced Patriots to prevent its ruin."  - Samuel Adams

Offline nyrasgt

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Re: Air Rifle Liberty Training Rifle
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2015, 08:44:36 PM »
Fellow 'Seeders,
Be advised Civilian Marksmanship Program (huge website) continues to offer Daisy 853s, including a sling, decent (plastic) rear sights and multiple, hooded front sight inserts...for $100 plus $14.95 shipping, $22.95 shipping for two - can be sent to your home!  CMP also sells .177 pellets...AND rifle and pistol ammunition...
    If CMP is asked politely, they will include with the rifle several 5-shot pellet "clips," which advance when the bolt is cycled (lever still has to be cocked for each shot).

    Cheapest way to practice until .22 ammo returns...basement or backyard, @ 10 meters...in my former life as HS English teacher and school's Varsity Rifle Coach, we used CMP Daisys with 7th through 12th grade gym classes (up to when team was disestablished by School Board in 2000) - and if gym classes couldn't break them, NO ONE can...
    Daisy MSRP is around $400...
    Won't last forever...
Excelsior,
madMark/nyrasgt
PS  2015 Instructor Purchase Program typically expires in December - PM me email address for manufacturers' IPP sheets:  Smith, Ruger, Henry, Mossberg.
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