EQUIPMENT FOR SHOOTING IN THE COLD

[Firewall99]

Prepper, over at NEshooters.com, asked, "Would you recommend any particular thin shooting gloves?  You may have noticed I had gloves with the furthest-out half of the fingers missing (they are made that way).  It helped a lot for a while, but towards the end I could barely push cartridges into the mags."

Great question!  Please see the new, updated equipment suggestions in my more recent message(s) in this thread.  Specifically, Under Armour glove liners are great for open-ended mittens, but the mittens need to be able to fold back up and cover the fingertips.  These glove liners are thin enough to do anything, but need to be covered between uses.  Furthermore, the exterior of the mittens need to be water resistant and non-absorbant.  See the thread.

If anyone else has suggestions, chime in before we all freeze our fingers off.

[slim]

I like to wear big ol' thick heavy gloves, even when shooting. Of course, my rifle has a special pin that allows me to fold the trigger guard down so I can slip a heavily gloved finger in there...... (so that's what that little pin is for!)


I bought some pretty nice hunting gloves that are kind of like mittens but are fingerless gloves underneath and the "mitten" folds back and can be velcroed down when more dexterity is needed. They're pretty handy, but not for extreme cold. As said above, wearing some flight gloves (nomex is OK) under some heavy mittens is probably best. I tried neoprene and they're ok if it's raining or if you're going to get wet, but they're no good for sitting for long periods of time. (Same with the boot inserts.) Stay away from that stuff.

As with all outdoor/shooting/hunting stuff, to stay really toasty you MUST layer and a thin layer of cotton (or nomex) on bottom followed by something heavier and wool on top is the best way to go. Fleece is good, just not so windproof. Cover it up with GoreTex and you'll be OK.

But, for all around, absolute warmth, you can't beat wool. (Works even when wet. Why do you think naval pea coats are made of wool?) Slap on a pair of flight gloves and then some wool mittens over them when you're "down" and you'll be fine when you pull them off to shoot strings or take that shot at the deer or whatever.

Whenever you're considering gloves for cold weather shooting, pick the warmest pair and then re-acquire your NPOA, try not to drag wood (or glove!) sqeeeeeeeze, and then remember to follow through, even with the glove on. It's not the gloves that make you a good shooter, it's all the rest of the Appleseed stuff. The gloves, however, will make you warmer, and warm fingers are better at sqeeeeeezing the trigger and following through.

[Nickle]

The Army now issues flight gloves to all of us.

For shooting, I'm partial to fingerless motorcycle gloves. Of course, you'll want something warmer to put on over them when you're not actually shooting.

[Old Dog]

Wear enough clothes (a good head warming hat is necessary) so that your body (core temperature) stays high enough that your circulation stays wide open.  The warm blood from your body core will help keep your fingers (and toes) warm.

I don't recall too many folks wearing gloves at Ramseur in Feb. 07 but it was only below freezing in the mornings.

[Redchrome]

My experiences, from having run outdoor shooting events most every sunday for a couple of winters:

I wear:

• The thinnest set of gloves I could find at Eastern Mountain Sports
• A set of insulated leather work gloves over them; sometimes even while shooting if the gun will accomodate a huge gloved finger (it's worth experimenting with!)
• My Carhartt insulated coveralls... even if you don't think you'll need them, it's better to be too warm than too cold. Once you get cold it's really hard to warm yourself up again.
• An insulated flannel shirt (which unfortunately has seen better days and really needs to be replaced by now)
• The warmest knit cap I have that my earmuffs will fit over
• Sunglasses because sunlight on snow will burn your eyeballs, and it's good to keep your eyes out of the cold wind if possible.
• Heavy rubber boots, because dry feet stay warm.

The limiting factor usually ends up being my feet. I should buy a set of good warm winter hunting boots. That said, keeping one's core warm will keep your extremeties warm as well. (The old phrase "if your feet are cold, put on a hat!" comes to mind. Even a moderate amount of exercise will help with this substantially.

[crak]

Redchrome, you're a funny dude. 

Thanks for reminding us about the crap we worry about when we're not MELTING.

[Firewall99]

When preparing for long days shooting in the snow, which gloves to wear is one of the more important choices to make.

Smithy & I have been shooting every Sunday all winter.  We have found that there is cold, and there is COLD.  Most days the temperature is above 15-20 F°.  This is just cold, and regular boots & gloves will serve for short periods.

In these conditions, a folding mitten that folds back to expose fingertips is OK.  You cover the exposed fingertips with a glove liner.  The mitten needs an exterior that is water resistant and won't absorb water.  The following combination is what I use most of the time:

Outer Glove:
Ergodyne Thermal Flip-top Mitten - Model 816 (Black)
Manufacturer Site:  http://www.ergodyne.com/products/pages/default.aspx?PCA=27&PRD=208
To buy:  http://www.ergodyne.com/products/pages/default.aspx?PCA=27&ShowPro=1
Price to beat:  $22.42

Inner Glove:
Under Armour ColdGear® Liner Glove - Model 1006610 (Black)
Manufacturer Site:  http://www.underarmour.com/shop/us/en/womens/accessories/gloves/liners/pid1006610-ColdGear-Liner-Glove/1006610-002
Price:  $24.99
NOTE:  This inner glove may be best also for the extreme choice, below, because it's really thin enough to do almost everything without removing. 

And then there is COLD, when the temperature heads toward zero and points southward.  We don't get this often in NH, unless there is a lot of wind.  Then the wind chill will do it.  Now we're talking serious arctic equipment:

Outer & Inner Glove:
Burton AK™ 3L Hover Mitt w/ 2 liners
Manufacturer Site:  http://www.burton.com/mens-snowboard-gloves-mitts-ak-3l-hover-mitt/221164,default,pd.html?dwvar_221164_variationColor=336&start=5&cgid=mens-gloves-mitts
To buy:  http://www.nextag.com/serv/main/buyer/OutPDir.jsp?search=Burton+AK+3L+Hover+Mitten+-+Men%27s+&x=36&y=11
Price to beat:  $149.95

When you wear a mitten that must be removed to shoot, here's a tip.  Take that trigger mitten and place it under your support elbow.  It will cushion the elbow, and, more importantly, it will still be there when you reach for it.

[Firewall99]

One of the most important things about choosing a boot (or a glove for that matter) is getting the size right.  They need to be LARGER THAN NORMAL.  Cold weather boots need to have extra room to wear several layers of socks PLUS room for foot warmers.

These are the top cold weather boots I found:

Regular Cold (>15° F):
Cabelas Trans-Alaska™ III Pac Boot (Brown)
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=netcon&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0006182
Price to beat:  $127

Cabela's Saskatchewan™ Pac Boots (Mossy Oak)
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/pod-link.jsp_A&_DAV=netcon&rid=&indexId=cat20574&navAction=push&masterpathid=&navCount=1&parentType=index&parentId=cat20574&id=0020834
Price to beat:  $135

Long Term COLD (<15° F) for Extended Periods:
Baffin Industrial "Driller" (Black)
Manufacturer Site: http://www.baffin.com/Comersus7F/store/comersus_viewItem_ind.asp?idProduct=344
Buy: http://www.winterfootwear.com/p2190c122b116-baffin_driller_mens_industrial_steel_toe_plate_work_boots.html
Price to beat: $150

Note:  A friend of mine who has these says he doesn't get to wear them much.  "They are too warm."  Judging from the makeup of the liner, I could see why.  It's about .75" thick, and it's made from some sort of wool-type fiber that has a reflective component, like a space blanket.

[Gordon]

When preparing for long days shooting in the snow, which gloves to wear is one of the more important choices to make.

And think about including chemical-based, air-activated handwarmers in your portfolio. I really like these in the pocket of my outer layer. I wear a thin glove-liner for shooting, and warm up my hands between COF's. This works nicely for temps say 10-15F; I haven't been out in anything more severe lately

[desertrat144]

A glove-mitten combo I used when surveying, had a knit mitten 'cover' that slipped over 'fingerless' gloves; the cover was attached to the glove to prevent its loss.  This was a great combo for working instrument dials when the cold and winds were taking their toll on those just wearing gloves.  The really great part, was cost ~ $5 at the time, at Target Stores; they were a butt ugly gray/white wool combination, so no one really 'wanted' mine! 

[smithy]

I definitely am not too fussy about dressing for cold. In the really COLD days I wear two pants, flannel shirt, wool sweeter, two hooded sweatshirts thin working gloves and occasionally flappable mittens over them. In general, just like regular hunting dressing for cold winter day. Activity on the firing line causes you to be much wormer than all day sitting on the tree stand motionless when hunting. The only obstruction I've ever noticed was the finger tips getting numb after 30 sec. exposure to elements - hence I am using thin working gloves in extreme cold. I think we might have problems at temperatures -40 and lower. But this happens only in International Falls, Minnesota.

[starfox]

At the Austin, TX January Appleseed, it started out at 15 degrees F and 19 degrees F, Sat/Sun respectively.  Both days it warmed into the mid-40s by the afternoon, but quickly started dropping again once the sun started getting low in the sky. 

Layering is key.  The wife and I, who worked the shoot as orange hats, were well layered:
Feet - Wool socks/boots.
Bottom - Under Armor ColdGear leggings, Army military issue thermals, jeans (Wife wore an extra set of longjohns too)
Top - Under Armor ColdGear shirt, t-shirt, Army military issue thermal top, Appleseed T-shirt, hoodie, winter jacket
Head - HeadSok, hoodie top, and fashionable orange hat.
Hands - Military flight gloves, plus wool mittens which had fold-back exposable fingertips.  The Flight gloves worked great for being able to have dexterity and keeping enough of the wind off to prevent wind-chill frostbite, but definitely needed the mittens.

Also had those chemical hand warmers.

We were pretty warm during the day, and the layering helped alot.  The UnderArmor ColdGear stuff works well, but is vulnerable to wind.

[Firewall99]

When preparing for long days shooting in the snow, which gloves to wear is one of the more important choices to make.

And think about including chemical-based, air-activated hand warmers in your portfolio.

Amen, FuzzyMath. 

The hand and foot warmers are especially important for those of us who for whatever reason can't get the proper equipment.  These warmers make up for what you don't got. 

The longer the hour rating, the better.  I use the hand warmers in my boots, because they last longer than the foot ones I had.  I may have some for sale at the shoot. 

[RimFireBob]

Beyond gloves, boots, coats...

• For hearing protection, think foam earplugs instead of muffs, the earmuffs just hold your hat away from your head and conduct cold. Even the cheapest plugs are as good or better than most muffs anyway.  If you are going double, then look for some "thin profile" muffs, sometimes sold for "trap" shooting.
• 
  For eye protection consider ski goggles instead of safety glasses, they don't fog up, often have vents around the edges and are frequently made with two layers, allowing cold air to flow between them.  They also are in colors designed for contrast in snow glare conditions.(pink, grey, orange, amber) frequently with interchangeable lenses

[ItsanSKS]

One thing that I have not seen mentioned is something to keep your hands DRY.  Nomex flight gloves work great, until they get wet.  Wool works great for outer gloves, but will tend to wick water to your inner glove.  When I lived in N. Michigan, I always wore a pair of latex gloves over my inner gloves, and a pair of good wool mittens over those.  The wool mittens kept my hands warm, the glove liners enabled me to maintain finger dexterity, and the latex gloves ensured that my hands stayed dry. 

Keep a few pairs of latex gloves in your shooting pack, and if the going gets wet, put em on.

Now, for feet.  A good pair of pac-boots is a must.  These are waterproof, and feature Thinsulate insulation (the more the better).  Wear a normal pair of light cotton socks, a pair of good, thick 100% wool socks, and you should be all set.  If needed, there are also battery-powered heated socks- these are the cats meow, but only last for a few hours per charge. 

+1 on sunglasses or ski goggles.  Something to cut back on the glare from snow.  Snow blindness is real, as anyone who has spent all day in the snow knows- you walk back indoors, and cant see spit.

I suggest looking into the Carhart insulated bibs, with a Carhart insulated coat to go over them; the reason I advise against the cover-alls, is that they tend to restrict movement more than the bibs & jacket.  Wear these over a good set of long johns, a sweat-suit and you will be toasty warm all day.  (I did just this, working as a roofing contractor in N. Michigan in the middle of winter- when you see EVERYONE wearing the same outfit, you begin to catch on...)

[Firewall99]

I noticed lately that some really rugged winter boots, while they look like all the rest, can be a big let down in the heat retention department.

I dug out this nice pair of sturdy, winter boots the other day because they were easy to slip on and off.  They were the Sorel-type with the removable, thick, felt booties and rubber bottoms.  So I took them for a walk with Abby-the-dog.  Then I remembered why I had them so far back in the closet!  For some unfathomable reason, they just leak heat.  My toes got cold in less than ten minutes.  I checked the bootie, and it was like all the others.

So I tried another pair of similar slip-ons that I use for dressier occasions, thinking that maybe it's the sip-on part that makes them such lousy foot warmers.  Nope; these boots really kept my feet and toes warm for hours.  So it must be something in the sole or bottom construction.

Anyway, the point of all this is that you just never know until you test them is real conditions.

Which is another good reason for attending Winterseeds.

[Old Dog]

One of the problems with boots may be you spend so much time with the boot in contact with the "ground" when you're not standing in them.  That and keeping your feet dry.

[jmdavis]

Dry feet ++++++++!

My feet sweat. And once that happens they get cold. My grandfather taught me some tricks to avoid this. One is to not heat the car to the point that they start to sweat while traveling. Another is to keep a spare, dry pair of socks.

Other solutions include the use of polypro sock liners, and good wool socks. But as with winter camping a key to keeping warm is to avoid sweating in the first place. It's better to be a little chilly than wet which will soon be followed by cold and miserable.


Mike

[Firewall99]

Dry feet ++++++++!

My feet sweat. And once that happens they get cold. My grandfather taught me some tricks to avoid this. One is to not heat the car to the point that they start to sweat while traveling. Another is to keep a spare, dry pair of socks.

Other solutions include the use of polypro sock liners, and good wool socks. But as with winter camping a key to keeping warm is to avoid sweating in the first place. It's better to be a little chilly than wet which will soon be followed by cold and miserable.
Mike

++1 on dry feet.  Of course, the best way to keep from sweating a lot is to keep your weight under control by exercising your cardio system.  Forgive me for mentioning that, but believe me, I know!  The hard way.

I use a thin liner sock like Jim recommends, and then a thick, absorbent sock over the liner.  I have wool socks, and they definitely do work.  They shrink like crazy, though, so buy them extra, extra big. 

If you don't want wool, the ULTIMAX or PRO socks from Wigwam are the cat's meow.  They make good liners, too.

[Firewall99]

With all this talk about liners and socks, your boots can get pretty tight, and that's no good.

The trick is to have lots of air in your boots after putting on all these socks.  Air is an almost perfect insulator.

Getting your winter boots one size larger than usual is thus a good idea.

[Colorado Pete]

+1 on the roomy boots. Body heat is spread by blood circulation, and if tight boots (or other clothes) constrict circulation, you get cold there. However, if you're going to do a lot of walking, boots that are too loose will cause blisters. The first winter backpacking trip I went on I went from one extreme to the other before I got it right.

If you're going to be active enough to sweat in the cold that requires some care in clothing selection. The old rule is "Cotton kills in winter". That is because cotton loses all its insulating ability when wet. If you wear cotton socks or underwear or whatever next to the skin, and you are active enough to sweat and wet your cotton layer, then you stop moving for a while and cool down, you'll get chilly pretty quick. Wicking synthetics are the best bet next to the skin from head to toe (polypros, capilene, etc.) followed by wool socks on the feet, wool or fleece shirt, and wool pants. These inner two layers will keep you dry and warm no matter what, and work so well that what goes over them for outer layers is not so critical as long as it keeps wind, rain, or snow off you. Oh, and keep your head, ears, and neck covered too!

14 trips up Mt. Washington and 14 winter backpacking trips in upstate NY & VT teaches some good lessons...

[Old Dog]

Back in my 3 wheeler days (I still have them, they still run, I just don't get to the mountains to ride that big hog these days) I wore layers.  I also had some polypropylene/wool blend long underwear that was great.  I once turned the big 3 wheeler over sideways (broke through the ice on a big mud hole under the snow) and got dunked pretty good.  I got out from under the 3 wheeler and got up.  Everyone wanted to know if I wanted to go home since the ice was already freezing on the outside of the snow suit.  I told them no, let's just wait till I start to get cold.  I rode the rest of the day finally believing that I must have gotten up quick enough that the water didn't soak through.  When I got home and started removing the "layers" my whole right side (arm, leg, torso) were a nice brown color all the way to the underwear under the long underwear.  I never got cold, proving to me the wicking ability of the polypropylene/wool worked.

[desertrat144]

If your head and feet are warm, so are you!  When I was able to survey and play in the desert, changing socks at lunch made a noteale difference.  
If it's going to be cold, windy, wet and/or damp, a British Wooley Pulley Sweater is worth its weight in Rhodium!  The Brit version is virgin wool and a tighter weave- it was meant for Naval use.
If you can get away with it, mittens are infinitely better than gloves; there are mitten/fingerless gloves combos sold- don't underestimate them.
Wind on the firing line? Get some 6+ oz canvas and 'wrap' it around you- it stops heat loss by wind quickly.  Don't forget those $3 aluminum Mylar space blankets too.
At lunch have warm or hot soup!  You can brew up some good stuff in a Thermos Bottle- toss in the ingredients pre-shoot (at home), and by the time lunch rolls around and you open the bottle, your fellow shooters may start to have thoughts about acquiring that Thermos & contents.
I'm working on getting some 'goodies' together in dealing with cold weather, this may be the spot to post them.

Tom

Updated 2.23.11, see receipt attached. tom

[FreeStater]

Affordable Snow Goggles:
http://www.sciplus.com/category.cfm/subsection/9

[George63]

Dry feet ++++++++!

My feet sweat. And once that happens they get cold. My grandfather taught me some tricks to avoid this. One is to not heat the car to the point that they start to sweat while traveling. Another is to keep a spare, dry pair of socks.

Other solutions include the use of polypro sock liners, and good wool socks. But as with winter camping a key to keeping warm is to avoid sweating in the first place. It's better to be a little chilly than wet which will soon be followed by cold and miserable.

Mike
you can try antiperspirant on the feet, never tried it but have seen it a few times for mountain climbing etc

[Firewall99]

Our last February, 2011, Winterseed at Peterborough highlighted this much-needed piece of equipment.  Those of us with cleats did not fall down.  My cleats failed during the shoot, so I experienced both sides of the issue.  I almost fell, and the week before on another expedition where I did not bring my cleats, I did fall and screwed up my back pretty bad.

So let's talk cleats.  Whoa!  There is an amazing amount of data on this subject.  Here is a good overview of the selection issues:

http://www.winterwalking.com/html/ice_cleats.htm

The ones I had that failed were the all-rubber, stretch-on variety.  When these were exposed to the extremely high heat of a wood-burning tipi stove, the rubber at the sole edge weakened and eventually broke.  To be clear, these cleats had the rubber extending down over the edge of the boot all the way to the cleats on the sole.

In my current opinion, the optimum cleat system, in addition to the issues discussed in the overview above, needs to not have any rubber or nylon strapping going below the sole.

Something like this:

http://www.ice-cleats.com/store/ice-cleats/icetrekkers-diamond-grip

Or this:

http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.php

However, both of these solutions need to be taken off when entering a home or when walking on tile or smooth concrete.

What do you think?  Found a better idea?  Please share it with us.

[Andy in NH]

I use the micro-spikes.

They have worked well for several winter hikes up Mt. Monadnock and a winter hike along the Metacomet Trail.

I use them daily in the winter when I go outside to fill up my wood boiler.

They worked great this weekend in Peterborough.  

[Firewall99]

I use the micro-spikes.

They have worked well for several winter hikes up Mt. Monadnock and a winter hike along the Metacomet Trail.

I use them daily in the winter when I go outside to fill up my wood boiler.

They worked great this weekend in Peterborough.  

Yes, I noticed that yours did not break.  Then again you weren't so stupid as to put them near the tipi stove while warming up your boots, either!

I included the IceTrekkers in case people don't like the red look. 

What's the deal with Kahtoola?  I saw some black rubber Microspikes on Amazon, but Kahtoola doesn't seem to offer black as a choice anymore.