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Coeur d'Alene, Idaho April 18-19, 2015

Started by eert, April 20, 2015, 12:36:39 AM

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eert

Greetings,

This is just a placeholder.  I will get an AAR posted later this week.  Great shoot though!

If anybody has a Ruger mag with "FRGC 4" label taped on the bottom, please let me know. 

More to follow,  Happy Patriot's Day!

EERT

eert

Sorry for the delay, but here is your Patriot's Day AAR.

Awesome weather and a great group of participants with teachable attitudes. 

The weekend saw 3 new riflemen; Lance, Robert V., and Jeff S.  Lance was a Coeur d'Alene repeat, so it was especially gratifying to see him earn his patch on Saturday.  He repeated the effort a couple of more times on Sunday for good measure.  Robert shot his RM score on the second to last AQT of the day, and may have repeated on the last one, I forgot!  Jeff shot his when it mattered most, as he had to sit out the last AQT as he didn't have enough rounds left for another AQT.  Congrats Riflemen, hopefully you will remember what a special day April 19th is for a very long time.

We also had three requalifiers, all of which picked up the Orange Hat.  I was hoping to encourage at least one, but all 3, WOW and HUZZAH, HUZZAH, HUZZAH.  Congratulations to previous Coeur d'Alene Appleseeders Lloyd and Johnnie.  It's pretty great being a Shoot Boss and seeing folks that have been on your line previously want to join the fray!  Not to dis the non-Coeur d' Alene AS'er, Dan, who hails from Pullman, so maybe we'll see him again!  Great attitudes all, and darn good shooting too!  I look forward to working with all of you in the future.  Dan, I have your jacket, and might be able to drop it off with Dirk in Moscow next week???

New Orange Hats, please PM me your forum name me, so I can steer you in the IIT direction.  If I don't hear something within a couple of days, I'll find your email and contact all of you.

Lloyd and Johnnie, since both of you have been to recent Couer d'Alene shoots, I'm curious as to your opinion of the course of instruction/fire we used on this shoot.  For example, how did combining the carding sights and ball and dummy drill with the Sunday morning refresher stages work?  Also your opinion of breaking up the strikes over two days, instead of having all strikes on day 1?

Peter, you are beyond knocking on the door.  Stay with the same firearm all weekend, and you'll be my next orange hat. 

Dan W. and Sandy, pleasure to meet and work with you.  I expect to see you both again, and maybe even at the new venue at Farragut State Park!

Reina, you really improved this weekend, your focus was great as demonstrated by some real nice Red Coat targets.  Keep the attitude up, and be here in June for the patch.  Luke, ditto, but you've got to be more consistent on your trigger action. 

Jose, nice improvement, hope to see you on the line again. 

Zach, I know I'll see you again.  Watch your email. 

I can't stress the importance of dry practice enough.  The Forum has scaled targets available for various indoor distances.  Make sure you leave any ammo in a separate room, verify the rifle and mag are empty three times (just like shooting the RedCoat), work on firearm manipulation, positions, and trigger action.  It's all free and it's the key to marksmanship.

Day one only shooters- you should have come back judging by the success the other shooters had!

All- I apologize for the absolute worst discussion on Inches, Minutes, Clicks I have ever given.  Not sure what happened other than just plain old rust.  Anybody that's wants my notes (that I should have reviewed prior to the shoot), please PM me with a return email and I'll send them off.  Trust me, they are much better than you heard on Saturday!

Instructors, it's always a pleasure working with you and now we have some new blood.  Roland, awesome job on the aftermath, I might let you steal my thunder more often.  And thanks for coming up for the weekend.  It would have been a tough shoot without you.

The book we get our history from is Paul Revere's Ride by David Hackett Fischer.

If you have any questions, post here or PM me.
See you on the Appleseed trail.

BORDERRUN-get those pics posted!   And see if you have a FRGC 4 (marked on bottom) ruger mag, let me know!

EERT

Wagon

Thanks again for the uber enjoyable Patriot's Day weekend, the history sessions are fantastic!    You and Roland took us back 240 years ago,  put us there on scene and made us walked with the great men and women who fought and sacrificed for liberty.      It was another fantastic Appleseed weekend!

But of course, the shooting is equally wonderful too, I have learned and re-learned a lot of things that help my shooting....     

Look forward to meet again! ... and a Pistol-Seed too  ;)

(PM inbound)

"Lew"

Undercroft

     To start with, many thanks again to all four instructors at this shoot.

     I came to the shoot with a rifle I didn't quite trust, an almost exclusively self-taught skill set that I certainly didn't trust, and a fear that I might be forced to endure a thinly veneered quasi-propaganda-esque presentation of Revolutionary War history.

     On day one I tried to follow my usual habit of finding the quietest corner I could and ended up next to two fine gentleman shooters (not to be confused at all with gentleman farmers). They were both very warm and accommodating in allowing me in to their conversation, and we shared an appreciation for military surplus firearms which made for a great subject of conversation at an Appleseed shoot. Many thanks Bob and Pete for (probably unknowingly) making my day one much better than it might otherwise have been.

     Right off the bat I had issues with my sights, probably due to new ammo I had purchased and set aside specifically for the shoot. One of my chief concerns was that I might have been dragged in to the meat of the shoot without adequate chance to fix such an issue. However, I was pleasantly surprised when a specific segment was set forward right after the first redcoat shoot that gave me ample time to correct the issue. I also had access to experienced help in interpreting the results of each sighting stage that made the process much less painful than it could otherwise have been.

     Right away I was impressed with the safety protocols. I've never really been shooting in a group of people before, and certainly not at a proper range. The procedures were made very clear, and felt very secure despite the large number of people. There was one snaffu on my part at the end of day one, but that was purely a result of my own misjudgment. The issue was quickly noted, dealt with, and at no time was there any apparent danger. Furthermore in many cases there was significant positive reinforcement as well, with range officers congratulating the line on proper muzzle discipline on certain stages of the AQT. This helped greatly helped to improve the experience as well, taking a bit of the potential severity out of the tone of the range protocols.

     I will admit that at the end of day one I was fairly tired and not really seeing much progress. A late work shift the night before had left me with only a handful of hours of sleep on top of an hour's drive and I was feeling the effects. My first redcoat target only qualified at 100 yards, and was an abysmally erratic mess due to the misaligned sights. I had adjusted to a six o'clock hold during the sighting-in phase which was utterly unfamiliar to me and several times during AQTs accidentally used a dead-on hold that rendered my efforts wasted. Furthermore the target backers between myself and my neighbor were fairly close, and on at least two occasions I accidentally put a handful of .223 inch holes in his target instead of my own (sorry Pete). In addition, my second redcoat target, although certainly better orchestrated, still only qualified at 100 yards. Even so I still raised my hand for improvement at the end of the day because at least these shots were /around/ each of the targets instead of a dozen MOA above and slightly to the right.

     That said, the high point of the day was definitely the history segments. They were delivered with a distinctly narrative flare that was very appealing to me. Being somewhat of a fan of history, especially military history, it was a pleasure to hear the level of detail that was presented in regards to name, locations, and times without losing the narrative in the process. The only portion of day 1 that superseded the history was the instruction from Dirk, the youngest of the range officers, who presented himself in a very accessible fashion and thoroughly shattered my worries of an exclusively older instructor base. I appreciate the wisdom and experience of older instructors, but it can be easier to engage someone closer to your own age when you feel inexperienced or uncertain. It turns out that I had no reason to worry about engaging the older instructors either in that regard, but Dirk was a fantastic early bridge and truly laid the groundwork for my day 2.

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     Day 2 started off with another redcoat shoot, and similar results. 100 yards. A slight sighting deviation from the day before that was quickly rectified in the much shorter sighting in period. This one was almost too short, as I noticed a couple of people remarking that they still didn't feel quite dialed in yet. However, the "ball and dummy" drill and the "carding the sights" drill were very nice and unexpected changes of pace. The ball and dummy drill was a little superfluous in my case since my first rifle was chambered in a .30 caliber cartridge and I have very few flinch tendencies with a .223 rifle. However, this drill was a fine variation that eliminated the need for snap caps, making it a valuable one to know in my book.

     Carding the sights was more interesting, and when combined with some of Dirk's advice from day 1 it went a long way toward cementing some of the practical points of NPOA. His idea of "melting" in to the shooting positions mixed with carding the sights providing an excellent visual of where I was suppose to  be melting /toward/ made for a large leap in understanding for me. Having another very friendly new neighbor made this segment great as well, and we got along famously I thought (thanks Lew!).

     After lunch we began the battle in earnest. AQT after AQT in rapid fire succession. I found myself trying to focus on individual stages. One AQT standing, the next sitting, shuffling through and sacrificing any illusion of getting Rifleman in the service of redoubling my focus on each stage in turn. Sitting became less awkward, standing positions felt less silly and less rushed, and I began to find whole new dimensions to the structure of the prone position (the only one with which I was really familiar before coming to Appleseed).

     The history presentations were broken up over the two days of the shoot, and the bursts of drama that they offered provided a perfect compliment to the rigorous pace of the AQTs. As the narrative was further developed I became aware that this was far from the plastic or shoehorned presentation I had initially feared. If I were to describe the style of the history portions at this Appleseed shoot it was really more about the story, both in the broad sense of the battles of Lexington and Concord as well as in the sense of the individuals within the larger narrative. The story was put forward and left to stand on its own merits. The listeners were encouraged to gauge those merits for themselves and judge according to the dictates of their own reason and conscience. Instead of the history being foisted upon us, we were actively extended the dignity and responsibility of our own conclusions. Which was a fine thing indeed.

     During one of the short breaks between targets I had a chance to chat some with Dirk about the history of some other great riflemen. Specifically Simo Häyhä, the famous Finnish Winter War sniper (in which I managed to embarrass myself slightly). A short interlude, but one that demonstrates the approachability and the knowledgeable nature of the instructors at this shoot quite well.

     On the third from the last AQT of the day I shot a target that certainly looked better than any other I had shot thus far. The mediocrity of my targets combined with the focused rhythm of the AQTs had led me to stop having my targets scored beyond the first couple of the day. One of the instructors suggested that I have it scored anyway. I passed the target off and ran the last couple couple AQTs, both of which were comparable, but neither of which surpassed that target in particular.

     It turns out that the target came back a 192, only 18 points shy of the 210 needed to qualify Rifleman. By means of comparison my first target on day one had only barely crested 120 points. On top of this I was finally beginning to feel truly comfortable with the sights on my rifle. I could see the target, understand the sights and the proper hold. I felt that I could finally begin to see what needed improving instead of merely flailing around in a sea of confusion every time I reluctantly pulled the trigger (whoops, sorry, squeeeeeeeeeeeeezed the trigger). Additionally my rifle ate round after round without complaint or hiccup, which astounded me and served to forge trust where before there had only been a dubious tolerance. The steadily shrinking groups didn't hurt much in that department either.

     The final redcoat shoot was the crowning moment for me. Flush with the tales of colonial valor and a 70 point jump in my AQT score I was thrilled to follow eert's prompting of, "for god's sake FIRE!" What resulted was a /300/ yard qualification, and dead center stake through the heart of Morgan's Shingle. A redcoat target that was only one solitary round off of a perfect clear. A rewarding finale to what proved, against all fears and difficulties, to be a weekend /very/ well spent and a most excellent Patriot's Day.

--------------------

     Sorry for the screed, but I wanted to be thorough in demonstrating precisely how good this shoot was for me. I got in to shooting in general with a wobbly foot, and though I have enjoyed it I've never felt particularly competent in it nor had I pinpointed anything that would render it a true touchstone endeavor for me. The efforts of these instructors this past weekend has opened new windows and doors for me, and provided a chance to turn marksmanship in to something that is deeply rewarding instead of simply fun. Which is something I've always wanted shooting to become for me.

     I'm looking forward to peeling myself away form a hectic work schedule this summer, sneaking off to play hooky with my fellow Appleseeders, and seizing my Rifleman badge with aplomb and vigor. Furthermore I also look forward to a potential Known Distance shoot later this fall, and taking my knowledge and burgeoning love of shooting to a deeper level still. Thank you again, so much, to all of the instructors at this shoot, and all the Appleseeders I had occasion to meet this weekend. I'll keep my powder dry, and with any luck at all I'll be seeing most of you again some time very soon.

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Redcoat targets, first of Day 1 to the last of Day 2:

Earl

Great write up, undercroft.

Do the dry practice, until all your three shot groups on the redcoat look exactly alike. You see the targets shift and they get smaller, but your group is only affected by your position, and your six steps, the ammunition and wind aren't a factor. Funny how when you make all your shots from your NPOA, in the Rifleman's cadence you get better results in stage two and three, but there really isn't enough time for thinking (pondering) about the shot so you have to get back to basics. The pondering comes later looking at targets and writing about them.

Hope to read more about your time on target.
... to catch the fire in another American for sharing the skills and our heritage to our posterity. Maybe my perfect shots will be made by those I met along the trials and trails of Appleseed. I know that America is a nation of Riflemen.

Wagon

Quote from: Undercroft on April 22, 2015, 04:34:26 AM
    I'm looking forward to peeling myself away form a hectic work schedule this summer, sneaking off to play hooky with my fellow Appleseeders

Zack -  If you are a Spokanite and don't mind adding another shooting buddy to the mix, feel free to PM me.

'Lew'

Undercroft

Earl - Thank you for the advice. I'm used to doing regular dry fire practice with the first rifle I owned (my Mosin Nagant 91/30), but before the shoot I had very poor familiarity with AR-15 style iron sights. Attending the shoot really helped give me a feel for properly aligning peep sights, so now I feel confident that dry fire practice with that style of sight can actually start to be truly productive for me.

Wagon: Sadly I live all the way over in Sandpoint. Spokane's a bit of a trek for me. Thank you for the invitation though.

Border-Run

#7
 :pics:


sat 4-18-15

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LAST ONE FOR SAT 4-18-15

^:)^    ^:)^   ^:)^   ^:)^

Undercroft

That final picture is especially fantastic. Thanks for uploading.

eert

#23
The last picture from Day 1 is a perfect example of a Rifleman's Perseverance.  Lance had been to an Appleseed before coming to Coeur d'Alene last fall.  He was shooting good right from the start, and all the Instructors assumed he get a RM score by the end of the day.  If I recall correctly, either his scope or his mount broke during the Sat. AQT.  So after using a back-up rifle on Day 2 which had to be zeroed etc, again he was on the way.   That's about when my twin brother Murphy decided to pay Lance a visit, and he suffered multiple misfires in every stage of the AQT.  But, did Lance give up? Of course not, he's a Rifleman!  He comes to Coeur d'Alene for a revenge shoot, and knocks out the AQT on his first try Saturday. 

Two traits a Rifleman must have, consistency and perseverance, and Lance exhibited both.   Well done, my friend.  When you get less busy, there is an Orange Hat awaiting you!

Thanks for coming back to Coeur d'Alene, and giving us the privilege of seeing you attain the patch!

EERT

Sandy

Hey Everyone!  Just like to give you my take on this April 18-19 Appleseed shoot.  I really wasn't thrilled about attending since my quilt was only days away from being finished but my husband was just so enthusiastic about going that I reluctantly put my quilt away and got in the car.

Mistake #1  and counting - read all paperwork ahead of time - especially note the tip that you should try out your rifle on the range first before going to the class.  I never touched the rifle before.  Had no concept of bolt release being difficult, or the irritating sling release.  But  I'm getting ahead of myself. 

The class starts with a history lesson.  With very little imagination you can picture the Redcoats coming down the road and your friends and neighbors grabbing their rifles.  From here on in the class only gets better -  well it did.... I didn't and I could kick myself that I wasn't more prepared and hadn't prepped for this experience.

It was really quite awesome.  Volunteer instructors - unbelievable! The amount of individual attention I received was so incredibly impressive!  I really don't want to remember how totally inept I was but will say words alone cannot express the thanks I wish to convey.  In retrospect these 2 days spent with Appleseed made a deeper impact on me than just shooting.... it is also the knowledge and camaraderie of the fine group of people in whose company I was privileged to spend time with.  Consider for a moment all the world news constantly bombarding us with the latest corruption and evil taking place - that there are good (no great!) Americans still out there and for that short period of time I was privileged to be in their company.

I regret not being better prepared for my Appleseed shoot.   It will not happen again.   My rifle has undergone a "makeover" and the next class I will be prepared.  A Great Experience!  Great Instructors & Participants!  A Great Time!
Thanks. Can't wait to do it again!

Sandy Wild

sensorguy

This post is from Lance (see Eert's post below)  1st I would like to thank all of the Coure d'Alene instructors for taking their time to run the program.  When time allows, I will get an Orange hat and join in the efforts to host these events.
My trip to the Rifleman's patch was not smooth, but it is very gratifying to have reached it.  My 1st two events were learning experiences including the lesson of making sure that I had good scope rings that were Loctite'd.  The 3rd event was last October (also at Coure d'Alene) where I found that I had a box of Remington Thunderbolts that were soft.  I think I spent more time cleaning the barrels than I did shooting.  The high point of that event was the last Redcoat target was cleared using a Ruger Mini 30 that I hadn't shot much. At least it let me know that I could shoot after all and it was the ammo and not me.
The Patriots day event was gratifying in that I shot a qualifying score on the 1st AQT and did so 3 more times that weekend using 2 rifles.
I will be back with a bolt action next time in addition to the 10/22's.
One very positive thing that I saw this weekend was Sandy's attitude.  I want to give her kudos for her realization that she had a lot to learn; it didn't deter her. She was attentive the whole weekend, asked numerous questions, took pictures and videos of other shooters (after asking permission).  With the attitude that I saw from, it wouldn't surprise me if she qualifies on her next attempt.  Keep up the good work.
For those who are hesitant to come out and try a weekend event, don't be.  Bring your rifle and a positive attitude. Pay attention to what you are being told and try the different methods. You will become a better shooter. All four of the events have been different; all have been enjoyable even with the frustration of equipment failure.  Come out and join us!
The history is an important aspect of the event. It is your history and most of it is not taught in schools.

eert

That is a real nice group of AAR's from the attendees.  Thank you for your thoughts and kind remarks.  It is people like you that keep me in the Green Hat.  The single best thing about Appleseed is truly the people you meet.  I'm actually going shooting with one of these attendees later this week, and if other attendees would like to shoot, get some coaching, or try some different equipment, send me a PM or email and we'll see what we can arrange. 

See you on the line, and while you are at it, check the Announcement Tab for Dirk's Photo Contest!

EERT

eert

Today Wandercroft joined me for some shooting, and someone shot a darn nice RM score, and it wasn't me!  Congrats.  We'll see you on the line soon enough to make it official.   A great day was had by all. Keep up the practice and refine those positions with Dry practice.  Next time, we'll go the distance route!

EERT

hawkhavn

Looks like another great CdA shoot!
Where's the moose?

HH
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

Undercroft

Quote from: eert on April 30, 2015, 12:18:45 AM
Today Wandercroft joined me for some shooting, and someone shot a darn nice RM score, and it wasn't me!  Congrats.  We'll see you on the line soon enough to make it official.   A great day was had by all. Keep up the practice and refine those positions with Dry practice.  Next time, we'll go the distance route!

EERT

Thanks, Eert. Looking forward to it.