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Regarding Political Discussion on the Appleseed Forum

Started by ItsanSKS, January 10, 2013, 09:48:03 AM

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ItsanSKS

To All:

As a nationwide group of volunteers, who are all working to restore the ideals of Liberty in the hearts and minds of our fellow Americans, it is not uncommon for us, as individuals, to attempt to use this forum as a means of 'getting the word out' about a specific piece of legislation, or a specific candidate or office-holder.  It is incumbent upon each of us to be mindful of the hazards associated with political speech, of any kind. 

*Some* political discussions are okay on these boards, while some are not.  If you make a post that runs afoul of our guidelines for approved political discussion, you may reasonably expect your post to either be edited for content, or removed altogether- this may happen with, or without notice. 

There are, in essence, two reasons for this overt censorship here on the Appleseed forum:

1.  IRS Regulations strictly forbid 501.c.3 organizations (such as Appleseed) from endorsing politicians or political parties.  Speaking out either for, or against a specific party or politician can be construed as 'engaging in political activity'.  If we allowed these types of discussions on our forum, then Appleseed would run afoul of the IRS. 

2.  Appleseeders come from every point on the political spectrum.  One cannot, with any degree of accuracy, point to a random Appleseeder and identify their political beliefs.  Taking this into account, it can be reasonably expected that any political discussion that takes place here may result in a heated debate.  While that debate is healthy, and SHOULD take place, the Appleseed Forum is not the place for that debate.  Further, getting embroiled in such a debate may tend to cause hard feelings amongst volunteers who are working towards the same goal.


So how are we supposed to know whether a "political" post is okay, or not?  Quite simple, really:

Any post that specifically (or ambiguously) offers an opinion (whether for or against) any candidate, office-holder, political party, or proposed/current legislation is not allowed on these boards.

A post MAY be created that brings attention to a current/proposed policy/regulation/law, and such posts may even ask for folks to get involved.

An illustrative example of a post that is NOT okay:

"such and such legislation has been offered by so and so, a Republican from somewhere.  It is a good law, and it will certainly help us all.  Please support this legislation by giving money to so and so, and by writing/calling your representatives and asking them to pass it."

An illustrative example of a post that IS okay:

"such and such legislation is being considered by Congress/Local/State Assembly.  It is very important that you make yourself familiar with this proposed law/regulation/ordinance, and how it might affect your life.  Read more about it here (link to specific bill/law) and then contact your representative to let them know how you feel about it."     


I hope that these illustrations clear up what types of political posts are appropriate for this forum.  Should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Sincerely,

ItsanSKS
"Those who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of safety deserve neither."

"To save us both time in the future... how about you give me the combo to your safe and I'll give you the pin number to my bank account..."

2 clicks low

To be clear, can I say

"Senate Bill 1234 that will require registration of tatcial dental floss is comming up for a vote. Contact your senator AND SENATOR DOLITTLE THE SPONSOR AT 800-555-1212!"

2 clicks low
"Semper Fritos" 1st. Chicago Chairborne

K98Al

Does this mean that quotes by the Founders that do not reflect our current decadent, selfish, multicultural, tolerant of anything attitude are not OK?

There are some really good ones by Ben Franklin....
Before we can defeat our external enemies, we must first meet and defeat everything in ourselves that is weak, lazy, and cowardly; everything in our character that is materialistic rather than spiritual, which seeks weak compromise and accommodation rather than struggle and victory.

ItsanSKS

2cl-

Short answer?  Yes.
The reason your hypothetical was okay, is that you offered no opinion on the proposed registration of tactical dental floss, and merely asked the reader to voice their own opinion.   

That said, any post of this nature should have a link directly to the bill/regulation in question, so that the reader may inform themselves FROM THE SOURCE.  Links to political punditry will not be abided.
"Those who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of safety deserve neither."

"To save us both time in the future... how about you give me the combo to your safe and I'll give you the pin number to my bank account..."

ItsanSKS

Quote from: K98Al on January 10, 2013, 10:29:13 AM
Does this mean that quotes by the Founders that do not reflect our current decadent, selfish, multicultural, tolerant of anything attitude are not OK?

There are some really good ones by Ben Franklin....

Quotes from the founding generation are pretty much good-to-go.  That said, 'stirring the pot' and/or pushing a political agenda, under the guise of simply quoting the founders, will not be tolerated. 

As a general rule, keep your political opinions to yourself.  If you can't keep them to yourself, at the very least, keep them off the Appleseed Forum. 



"Those who would trade an ounce of liberty for an ounce of safety deserve neither."

"To save us both time in the future... how about you give me the combo to your safe and I'll give you the pin number to my bank account..."

Scout

Any post that just discusses yummy bacon is A-OK  ;) ;D, anyway everyone on this forum is close to being on the same wavelength. There is no need to try and convince anyone here of the illness in our government or it's individual members, that is the reason we are here. To safeguard our freedoms and liberties and  promote lasting governmental change through informing the masses and running the best Appleseed shows we can, right?

Every once in a while I will post a comment on a news story page or on a website (not here) that is discussing some law or some jack@ss stunt being pulled by some ant/igun/freedom/liberty person and this seems to quell my thirst for an immdiate "do something" when reading a really offensive article, but in my heart I know that the five minutes I spent writing the rejoinder was an absolute wasted five minutes. The other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the 365, to get my "do something" fix, I just keep my head down and try to run the best show I can on Saturday and Sunday. And that gives me the best relief I ever get.

-Scout

PS- If you ever feel like you absolutely must write something political down for someone else to read or you will explode, don't post it here, wrap it up in a PM and send it to myself, Bob210, Itsansks, TwoWolves, Voortrekker or even Fred, but, I warn you, if you send it to Fred, don't be surprised if you get a line by line assessment of why the person you are writing about was right/wrong/meaningless/girlyman/all of the above/etc.... :) ;) ;D 
BattleRoadUSA.com

"Who wants Ice Cream?" Fred

Sixty seconds is way too long for a minute, I am cutting it down to thirty seven seconds- SoM

"You can shout it, you can preach it, but no matter how many times you repeat it, NEVER believe your own bullSh*t." (as told to me by Grin Reaper)

PHenry

Quotebut in my heart I know that the five minutes I spent writing the rejoinder was an absolute wasted five minutes. The other 23 hours and 55 minutes of the 365, to get my "do something" fix, I just keep my head down and try to run the best show I can on Saturday and Sunday. And that gives me the best relief I ever get.

I could not agree more sir - that is at the very heart of Appleseeding. This is a man who has been quietly toiling for our worthy cause from the beginning, unwavering, unrelenting and unabated. That would make him an seven year "veteran" of Appleseeds. Listen and learn good people. The more harsh times become, the more focused must we remain. Heritage and Marksmanship - I have never seen anything more effective at waking people up. Venues, promo and staffing, with promo always being the hardest and most lacking of the three.

God bless you Scout - I stand in your shadow and take great inspiration from your example.
In Liberty,
PHenry
Para ser Libre, un Hombre debe tener tres cosas. La Tierra, una Educacion, y un Fusil. Siempre, un Fusil!  Emiliano Zapata

FiremanBob

#7
There are so many other forums where we can indulge our interest in modern politics and partisan debate that I don't feel any need to do it here. Active, vigilant citizenship will bring all issues out into the open, where the bright sunlight will make clear the correct decisions.

Tocqueville, in "Democracy in America," remarked that while the Americans of the 1830s were not cultured or artistic minded as Europeans, nearly everyone was literate, knowledgeable and active in matters of politics and public affairs. Later in the book he warned us what could happen if we lost that happy aspect of our national personality:

"I seek to trace the novel features under which despotism may appear in the world. The first thing that strikes the observation is an innumerable multitude of men, all equal and alike, incessantly endeavoring to procure the petty and paltry pleasures with which they glut their lives. Each of them, living apart, is as a stranger to the fate of all the rest; his children and his private friends constitute to him the whole of mankind. As for the rest of his fellow citizens, he is close to them, but he does not see them; he touches them, but he does not feel them; he exists only in himself and for himself alone; and if his kindred still remain to him, he may be said at any rate to have lost his country...

Above this race of men stands an immense and tutelary power, which takes upon itself alone to secure their gratifications and to watch over their fate. That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would like the authority of a parent, if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks, on the contrary, to keep them in perpetual childhood; it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government labors; but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness; it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances; what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living? Thus it every day renders the exercise of the free agency of man less useful and less frequent; it circumscribes the will within a narrower range and gradually robs a man of all the uses of himself. The principle of equality has prepared men for these things; it has predisposed men to endure them and often to look on them as benefits...

They devise a sole, tutelary, and all-powerful form of government, but elected by the people. They combine the principle of centralization and that of popular sovereignty; this gives [men] a respite; they console themselves for being in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own guardians...By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master and then relapse into it again...

Subjection in minor affairs breaks out every day and is felt by the whole community indiscriminately. It does not drive men to resistance, but it crosses them at every turn, till they are led to surrender the exercise of their own will. Thus their spirit is gradually broken and their character enervated...It is in vain to summon a people who have been rendered so dependent on the central power to choose from time to time the representatives of that power; this rare and brief exercise of their free choice, however important it may be, will not prevent them from gradually losing the faculties of thinking, feeling, and acting for themselves, and thus gradually falling below the level of humanity."

Tocqueville wrote that in the 1830s, and here we are now. If we in Appleseed can restore that active, vigilant citizen, we will have done our descendants the greatest possible service.
Author of "The 10/22 Companion: How to Operate, Troubleshoot, Maintain and Improve Your Ruger 10/22"

"Remember constantly that a nation cannot long remain strong when each man in it is individually weak, and that neither social forms nor political schemes have yet been found that can make a people energetic by composing it of pusillanimous and soft citizens." - de Tocqueville

AJ Gonzales

Does this guideline apply to Appleseed Facebook pages?

IMO the regional Facebook pages are extremely visible and easy for people to find. Potential Appleseeders from my generation will look for stuff on FB far before they'll find this forum.

Knowing that I think it would be wise to extend this rule to those regional FB pages. The second you alienate a certain group is the second you've turned away potential Appleseeders, possibly forever.
Vestigia Nulla Retrorsum

Mrs. Smith

Quote from: AJ Gonzales on January 03, 2018, 12:08:51 AM
Does this guideline apply to Appleseed Facebook pages?

IMO the regional Facebook pages are extremely visible and easy for people to find. Potential Appleseeders from my generation will look for stuff on FB far before they'll find this forum.

Knowing that I think it would be wise to extend this rule to those regional FB pages. The second you alienate a certain group is the second you've turned away potential Appleseeders, possibly forever.

I'm nobody of significance,  but if I had to guess,  I'd say the answer is YES. Any public forum,  social media, etc, should be assumed a part of this criteria.

I would even go so far as to say that when you're posting as yourself,  refrain from including the organization in your identifiers. Eg: signing a post as
Mrs. Smith, Instructor,  Project Appleseed

I would also check profile pictures,  to make sure it's not a shot of your instructor hat,  or an AQT,  etc. Any time we made a statement publicly,  we have to be aware of the potential for those statements being linked to the organization, even unintentionally.
"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

You can have peace, or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once. - Robert A. Heinlein

"A generation which ignores history has no past, and no future." - Lazarus Long

"What we do now echoes in eternity." Marcus Aurelius

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peterlandsiedel

I'm with Mrs. Smith on this one.

The no politics rule is exceptionally important to the program.  My reading of the instructor manual indicates that it applies to any and all means of Appleseed branded communications. 

PHenry

Our methods must be unimpeachable.

It's a matter of survival. I was taught very early on my a FL state trooper who attended a couple of events. I told him we were not about politics and had no hidden agenda whatsoever. He assured me he believed me - without question. But, if you think you can talk about teaching people to shoot using a military system of teaching and talk about revolution, having nobody draw the wrong conclusion - you are simply kidding yourself. I immediately petitioned Fred for permission of offer a disclaimer at the beginning of every event I run. He agreed and I have done it ever since.


QuoteI will also tell you what Appleseeds is NOT about. Appleseeds is not about politics……
Appleseeds is not about anything anti-government, illegal or subversive - whatsoever!
In fact, if you harbor any such thoughts, you will want to keep them to yourself, as you will find them most unwelcome here. Appleseeders greatly respect the tradition of self-government handed down to us by the Founders. There is no secret handshake and no hidden agenda. Just history and marksmanship - nothing more and nothing less.

I was once approached by a new instructor who was very worried about how hard-edged my discussions were at times. I asked him to be more specific. It was certain phrases and quotes he told me - citing several examples. I assigned each one to the Founder from whence it came. I am merely reciting them - I did not invent a single one.

There is NOTHING more "radical" than the writings of the Founders. We have no need of politics. Politics is like fashion - nearly meaningless. The Founders understood Natural Rights and they pulled no punches when speaking of them. To thems who would paint us with us with a dark brush for repeating the words of the Founders - I say bring it. History proves the tyrants prefer their peasants be disarmed. From the dawn of civilization itself this is a proven fact.

Why would I bother to discuss modern politics?  O0

"We hold these truths to be self-evident.........."
Para ser Libre, un Hombre debe tener tres cosas. La Tierra, una Educacion, y un Fusil. Siempre, un Fusil!  Emiliano Zapata

Charles McKinley

Very nice post PHenry!

Something that used to be seem a lot:
SOM SOM- Stay on Message Stay on MISSION.
Last evening, it occurred to me that when a defender of Liberty is called home, their load lands upon the shoulders of the defenders left behind. Just as the Founders did their duty for Liberty, every subsequent generation must continue their work lest Liberty perish. As there is no way for the remaining adults to take on the work of those that die, we must pass the ideals and duties on to the children. -PHenery

stoneknives

Quote from: PHenry on April 25, 2019, 04:03:17 PM
Our methods must be unimpeachable.

It's a matter of survival. I was taught very early on my a FL state trooper who attended a couple of events. I told him we were not about politics and had no hidden agenda whatsoever. He assured me he believed me - without question. But, if you think you can talk about teaching people to shoot using a military system of teaching and talk about revolution, having nobody draw the wrong conclusion - you are simply kidding yourself. I immediately petitioned Fred for permission of offer a disclaimer at the beginning of every event I run. He agreed and I have done it ever since.


QuoteI will also tell you what Appleseeds is NOT about. Appleseeds is not about politics……
Appleseeds is not about anything anti-government, illegal or subversive - whatsoever!
In fact, if you harbor any such thoughts, you will want to keep them to yourself, as you will find them most unwelcome here. Appleseeders greatly respect the tradition of self-government handed down to us by the Founders. There is no secret handshake and no hidden agenda. Just history and marksmanship - nothing more and nothing less.

I was once approached by a new instructor who was very worried about how hard-edged my discussions were at times. I asked him to be more specific. It was certain phrases and quotes he told me - citing several examples. I assigned each one to the Founder from whence it came. I am merely reciting them - I did not invent a single one.

There is NOTHING more "radical" than the writings of the Founders. We have no need of politics. Politics is like fashion - nearly meaningless. The Founders understood Natural Rights and they pulled no punches when speaking of them. To thems who would paint us with us with a dark brush for repeating the words of the Founders - I say bring it. History proves the tyrants prefer their peasants be disarmed. From the dawn of civilization itself this is a proven fact.

Why would I bother to discuss modern politics?  O0

"We hold these truths to be self-evident.........."

ON THE MONEY......HUZZAH!
"When men's rules are Honorable and Just I will follow them. When I find the laws tolerable, I will tolerate them. When I find the rules obnoxious, I will ignore them. When I find evil imposed or codified, I will War against it. My Lord has made it known and understood to me that to accept the gift of freedom I will alone bear the full responsibility everything I do, or chose not to do." I .......    "This is Appleseed. We are here to restore the Republic. Tyrants, major or petty, need not apply."  I .......

"I stand with the mission, Sir" PHenry