Opportunities to shoot at more than 100 yards

[proneshooter]

Miami RIfle & Pistol Club's highpower season is just a few weeks away, starting with a 50 round non-NRA registered across the course matches on February 1st and March 1st.

80 round NRA approved (scores turned in for classification) across the course matches start on March 29th and continue generally on the first Sunday of every month all the way into November (check the calendar link below for exceptions).

There are also NRA-approved and club casual 600 yard prone only matches/shoots available every month.

MRPC is one of the few civilian-owned full distance known distance ranges in Ohio and the only one in western Ohio and eastern Indiana.  Come on out and put your Appleseed skills to good use, get good zeroes all the way to 600 yards, learn and practice your wind correction skills, and relax after the match with like-minded people.

Match fees are reasonable (I think $30) and include a cookout after the match.

http://www.miamirifle-pistol.org/calendar.php

[stagehand steve]

There is an instructor training shoot in Richmond just across the border on January 31st.  Some of us might be interested in staying over for the Feb 1st event.  Do you have anymore specific details about that event?  Start tine, course of fire, etc?

Thanks,
== stagehand steve ==

[proneshooter]

Sure thing.

Match starts at 9 AM.  Be there 30-45 min early for squadding and paperwork.

Course of fire for Feb and early March is the National Match course with sighters
2 sighters and 10 shots for record in 12 min, standing, 200 yds
2 sighters in 2 min and 10 shots for record in 60 seconds, sitting or kneeling at 200 yds (mag change required)
2 sighters in 2 min and 10 shots for record in 70 seconds, prone at 300 yds (mag change required)
2 sighters and 20 shots for record in 22 min, prone at 600 yds

The matches starting end of March through November use the Regional Match course.  Same course of fire as above except every stage has 20 rounds for record.  Rapid fire stages are shot in two strings of ten rounds.

NOTE: NRA rules require that no more than one round be loaded in the rifle during the slow fire stages (standing and prone @ 600).  There is no waiver for that.

If you come into the club from US 50 the typical route is to go north on Stonelick-Williams Corner Rd.  But there is a bridge out on Stoneline-Williams Corner between US 50 and the club.  For access continue east on 50 past OH 222 and up a hill, then turn left (north) on Benton road.

First time visitors should look closely at a map of the area (yahoo maps is excellent) to understand the network of small roads into the club before coming in.  A GPS is a good idea.

[ItsanSKS]

Allow me to encourage anyone who has qualified Rifleman with their center fire rifle to try this.  NRA High power or the CMP John C. Garand matches are an excellent 'next step' to improving your marksmanship skills with a rifle.  If you've scored above 200/250 on the AQT at full distance, you will certainly be competitive in either of these matches. 

I can tell you from first hand experience that the folks who compete in the NRA High Power and Garand matches are very willing to help coach, and often will provide you with insight into how their techniques may differ from the ones taught at Appleseed, and why. 

Go.  Attend with an open mind.  The course of fire ought to be familiar enough, though the targets be different.

You may even be able to score a loaner rifle and purchase ammo from the host club. 

[proneshooter]

I would say that Riflemen should come even if they have never participated in a full distance event.

If you have a typical centerfire rifle (M1, M1A, AR15), are comfortable with the three positions, know how to use a sling for sitting and prone (no sling use allowed in standing), and have a 50 or 100 yard zero, we will work with you and get you on target using a combination of well-known dope and reading bullet traces with a spotting scope.

PS. bring at least two magazines (more are better) and about 50% more ammo than the match will require.

[proneshooter]

The one thing that will probably prove most daunting (due to unfamiliarity) to Riflemen who haven't participated in KD events is the operation of the targets.

Before I go into the how, I want to touch on the why of target service.  We all want to do well and excel at what we do.  Unless a range has electronic targets, KD shooting requires someone to mark the target for the shooter so that the shooter can see what he is doing and the scorer (more about scoring later) can keep track of it.  It is difficult to perform at one's best if one is receiving slow target service.

During the slow fire stages, the expectation for target service is 10 seconds or less for an average shooter and an average target puller.  An experienced puller servicing a good shooter (who keeps his hits in the ten ring with an occasional 9) can pull, spot, paste, mark, and run back up a target inside of 5 seconds.  Anything beyond 12 - 15 seconds on a re-occuring basis is unacceptable.  Obviously, someone new to the game will not be on the fast end of the spectrum, but by knowing ahead of time what to expect, having a learning attitude, and a sense of hustle even new shooters can give acceptable target service within the first two or three shots.

Why is fast target service important?  Three reasons: shooter fatigue, conditions, and courtesy.  Shooter fatigue is self explanatory.  The longer it takes to shoot a string the more tiring it is.  A very common strategy when shooting the slow fire prone stages is to identify a condition and shoot very quickly to get as many shots as possible inside a known (and manageable) wind condition.  Obviously, how fast one can shoot in slowfire depends greatly on how fast one's target is serviced.  The last reason is just as important and should need no explanation. 

OK, now to the meat of the matter.  I was going to write a wall of text on the how-to's of target service but since there are excellent videos on youtube, I will spare you my book...

Jonathan Ocab is a CMP Distinguished Rifleman and NRA High Master and does excellent video tutorials on many aspects of this game.  His target service video is in three 5 minute segments and well worth the time to listen and watch.  His video covers only slow fire target operation and scoring.
Part 1: http://youtu.be/2dXA9A5jY1E
Part 2: http://youtu.be/zSU2oa5Rs1I
Part 3: http://youtu.be/AF9qENgrevU

This next video goes over many of the same things Jonathan covers, but it is much more clear on the slow fire scoring system in use today by both the NRA and CMP.  It also covers rapid fire target scoring, which Mr Ocab did not.
http://youtu.be/8gCykiUo_D8

If you have any questions, fire away.

[proneshooter]

The third job you'll have at a HP match is scoring for a shooter.

Slow fire
Ask your shooter for his scorecard.
Use your spotting scope or binoculars to view his target after every shot.
Record the value of each shot (including sighters) on the card.
If you don't see the target drop reasonably quickly (1 - 3 sec) after the shot goes, yell "MARK TARGET X" loud enough for the line boss to hear.  He'll radio the pits and relay your request.

Rapid fire
The two sighters will be first, and they are shot in slow fire, so scoring them is exactly as described above.
Once the actual rapid fire string begins, leave your scope alone.  Watch the shooter and count every shot.  This is extremely important in case the target puller claims less or more than 10 hits on your shooter's target.  It's also important if the shooter has a rifle problem and claims an alibi.  You're the legal witness.
Once the firing is complete, get your scope on target to await the scores.
The number of hits per scoring ring will be written on a vertical chalkboard hanging from the left side of the target frame.
Transcribe those scores to the scorecard.
If you see either of the following on the chalkboard: 9 YES or 9 NO, ask for the line boss to help you.  Going into insufficient or excessive hits is beyond the scope of a basic how-to.

[jmdavis]

Good posts proneshooter.

If you want to test yourself and your rifle there is no better way than Across the Course competitive shooting. It WILL point out the deficiencies in shooter, rifle and ammunition. It is also extremely fun.

[jmdavis]

Slowfire scoring has changed since all of the videos were produced. The change wasn't big but the video below will show what to do now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD9ic30CbB0

[proneshooter]

jm, thanks for the update.  I took a couple of years off and missed that change to slow fire scoring.

I do like it over the previous version.  It makes the difference between a 9 and an 8 crystal clear.

[stagehand steve]

I would say that Riflemen should come even if they have never participated in a full distance event.

If you have a typical centerfire rifle (M1, M1A, AR15), are comfortable with the three positions, know how to use a sling for sitting and prone (no sling use allowed in standing), and have a 50 or 100 yard zero, we will work with you and get you on target using a combination of well-known dope and reading bullet traces with a spotting scope.

PS. bring at least two magazines (more are better) and about 50% more ammo than the match will require.

Are there any limitations on the type of rifle?

== ss ==

[proneshooter]

Are there any limitations on the type of rifle?

Cannot be greater than 35 caliber.
Gotta be able to quickly reload (meaning stripper clips or detachable magazines)
Optics or irons are fine.  Optics scores don't get turned in for NRA approved matches but if you don't care about that you're welcome to shoot.
Bolt action or semi auto, either one is fine

[proneshooter]

Another discussion on IMC (I had to look that up, never heard it called that) elsewhere on this forum prompted me to add a section on the targets used in HP competition.

As some of you probably already know, the targets are round bullseyes instead of torso/head silhouettes.  The aiming black is always 6 MOA (or very very close).  The ten ring is always 2 MOA, and the X ring is always 1.  These rules of thumb are accurate when dealing with the regulation full distance targets (SR for 200 yds standing and sitting RF, SR-3 for 300 yards prone RF, and MR-1 600 yd target).

The thumbrule gets distorted only a little bit when reducing targets for use at shorter distances.  For example the X ring of the MR-31 (600 yd reduced to 100 yds) target is only .75", which is .72 MOA.  But anyway, the thumbrule will get you what you need.

So......knowing that the bull is always 6 MOA, you can use a center of mass hold (tip of front sight even with middle of target) or you can add 3 MOA up to your sights and use a 6 oclock hold, where the tip of the front sight is tangent to the bull at six.  Once you decide which one to use, that becomes your basic 200 yd zero and add come ups from there for 3 and 6.

Windage is just as simple.  Since the 10 ring is always 2 MOA, a shot on the edge of it or just outside in the 9 ring at 3 needs 1 MOA (however many clicks that is on your sights) over to center up.

To make this even easier, there are dope books specifically for HP that include target diagrams with an MOA overlay grid so IMC becomes simply MC.  You can buy one from Creedmoor Sports or find some already on the web and print what you need: http://www.iowahighpower.com/hplinks/dbook-basic.htm

BTW, here's the NRA rulebook.  Target dimensions are in chapter 4: http://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

[slim]

Anyone shooting this course (or other HP-style events) keep in mind we zero at 25 METERS during Appleseeds and most of these targets are placed at YARD lines.

For Appleseed it doesn't make a difference because we're concerned about hits on a 4moa target. If you're splitting hairs in an attempt to make hits on 2moa (or even 1moa) targets at actual distance that 10% difference starts to take greater effect and your initial zero being off just a tad will be magnified down range too. The margin of error adds up.

Your Appleseed zero will be close enough to get good dope on your sighters but I highly recommend you crunch the numbers and add the correct dope to your sights when you shoot the competition. 

[proneshooter]

Slim, that is a good point.  And also a good tip to do the math ahead of time.

On the other side of the coin, the outermost scoring ring on the 200 yd target (where we start) is 18.5 MOA and the board that it is glued on is even bigger.  I think anyone with solid zeroes at 25 meters or 50 yards will be fine.  25 meters will be slightly high of center at 200 yds and a 50 yd zero will be theoretically nearly dead center at 200.  So long as we can find the hole in the paper somewhere, we'll get you centered up quick.

Even though the first stage of the course of fire is shot standing, sighters can be take in any position if someone wants to go prone and get a solid zero that way.  And of course, allowances are made for new shooters such as if they need more sighters or someone to help spot the shot for corrections.

One important thing to bring is a small notebook to start keeping track of your zeroes for distance, and each position if one distance is shot from different positions.

Central Indiana Highpower Rifle Shooters has their XTC (200/300/600) and long distance (800/900/1000 yd) matches at Camp Atterbury and their match director made sure to deconflict his schedule with Miami's.  So there's several KD opportunities a month for anyone who is motivated enough.

[slim]

Those guys were out there shooting at Atterbury last time we had an Appleseed KD event there. Pretty impressive to hear the "thwack" of the bullet passing by and then a full second or more till the "pew" arrived, if at all.

[Agrivere]

Optics scores don't get turned in for NRA approved matches but if you don't care about that you're welcome to shoot.

As far as I'm aware there is no reason not to turn in scores for rifles shot using optics, as they (should) fall under the Any Sight Match Rifle/Tactical Rifle category.

3.3.2 NRA Any Sight Match Rifle/Tactical Rifle-- Same as NRA Match Rifle Rule 3.3 except there is no restriction as to sights. The following restrictions will apply:
(a) No person firing and any sight rifle under 3.3.2 will be allowed to compete with any other group of shooters who are also firing. A competitor using an any sight rifle under Rule 3.3.2 will only be eligible for awards in their own division.
(b) Bipods may be attached but not utilized. Ammunition will be restricted to no larger than .35 caliber.
(c) Competitors may use a service rifle equipped with optic sights to compete under this rule. Competitors using service rifles described in Rules 3.1(c) and 3.1(d) may remove the carry handle to allow mounting of the optic sight.

A lot of Highpower shooters seem to be unaware that this rule addition was made some time ago.  Scores can still be turned in and used for NRA Classifications, and they are perfectly legal for Across the Course sanctioned matches.

This rule allows most AR-15 style rifles to compete in NRA sanctioned matches, with optics or without.  The only "catch" I'm aware of which some/many might run into is the rule on compensators:

3.16.1 Compensators and Muzzle Brakes--The use of compensators or muzzle brakes is prohibited.

Quite a lot of AR-15's come right off the shelf with compensators, and technically they are not legal for NRA sanctioned matches.  Personally I'm not a big fan of this rule, as I think relaxing this rule would make it easier for more new folks to come out and shoot, but they didn't ask me about it when they made the rules.

As long as the match director and the range are okay with it, one could still shoot a rifle with a comp on it, it would just be out of competition, and in that case the scores would not be turned in.

[proneshooter]

And now for the apex of service rifle competition, the National Trophy Infantry Team match

AMU Team Praslick: http://youtu.be/JDpYDKvBpG4

Texas State Rifle Association team: http://youtu.be/_olzQ1UtO7w

[jmdavis]

Let's not forget the Virginians. There have only been 3 civilian teams to win the overal NTIT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WwFR354BuY

[proneshooter]

Pretty impressive to hear the "thwack" of the bullet passing by and then a full second or more till the "pew" arrived, if at all.

I remember being a little unnerved the first time I had bullets cracking through cardboard over my head........

[slim]

I remember being a little unnerved the first time I had bullets cracking through cardboard over my head........

In the very early days of Project Appleseed (jmdavis might remember this) there was an exercise called "boom/crack" and attendees would actually go down range, hide behind a berm, then count the time between the crack and boom as someone fired over their heads. Then they'd crunch the numbers and determine the approximate distance the shot was taken from.

Science, bro! 

Obviously that's not something we do anymore (except when working the pits at KD ranges) but the science is still there. We can more safely do it by shooting steel and measuring the delay in the boom.... ping! Also possible to see the delay in watching the hit and hearing the hit.

I did a special miniseed event with a group of engineering students from a university and one of their guys (a young Rifleman) presented us with all the data behind it. They were doing equations and busted out the calculators. Then they got into the foot pounds and how recoil affected it and.... the rest of us took a break to cool down in the shade. After about 10 minutes they said, "Okay. Let's shoot some more." 

[proneshooter]

   I can relate, being an engineer too

[jmdavis]

I remember it as Crack/thump from JB and Son of Martha. But the idea was, when you hear the crack of the supersonic bullet passing overhead you begin counting as fast as you can 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10. The number that you are at when you hear the thump is the distance in yards. When I say fast I mean count to 5 in 1 second and 10 in 2. I do it sometimes when I'm in the pits and working a target that has gotten extra time or when I am working with a slow shooter. It's good practice though the front berm can reflect some of the sound. But you won't have that problem at Camp Perry. 

[proneshooter]

Anyone shooting this course (or other HP-style events) keep in mind we zero at 25 METERS during Appleseeds and most of these targets are placed at YARD lines.

For Appleseed it doesn't make a difference because we're concerned about hits on a 4moa target. If you're splitting hairs in an attempt to make hits on 2moa (or even 1moa) targets at actual distance that 10% difference starts to take greater effect and your initial zero being off just a tad will be magnified down range too. The margin of error adds up.

Your Appleseed zero will be close enough to get good dope on your sighters but I highly recommend you crunch the numbers and add the correct dope to your sights when you shoot the competition.

I want to add something more to this for those who have never shot an NRA or CMP match.

The slow fire portions of the match require that you load only one round, fire it, then wait for your target to be marked and run back up.  That means that you will have ample opportunity to make a correction to your sights before the next shot.  That begins with your sighters and continues on for the entire string of fire.  This is your biggest learning opportunity when it comes to learning what your sights are worth, how good your hold is, and how to manage the wind.

The rapid fire portions of the match also begin with two sighters, one fired and marked at a time.  When the rapid fire string begins, you put your best estimate of windage and elevation based on your sighters and go.  Shooters with experience reading mirage will often take a glance through the spotting scope during the reload to see if conditions have changed significantly since they started shooting.  They may or may not make a sight adjustment before going back to work.

[jmdavis]

Across the Course 200-600 yard shooting is the best way that I know to get good position zeroes for a rifle. It's not easy but it is very fulfilling.

The hardest part for some people will be the 200 yard standing. Since you are shooting without a sling at a smaller target than the D-target at 100 yards or 25m. BUT, it is a big target.

Most coaches will set a goal for a beginner to keep all shots on the target. A later goal will be all shots in the scoring rings and a later goal might be all shots in the 13" black of the bullseye and the 9-10-X rings. Eventually the goal is all shots in the 10 and X rings

One of my first Highpower matches I watched a 17 year old female Junior shoot a 98 in standing. Before she turned 18 she had distinguished with the rifle. The next year her brother, who was 17, did the same thing.

[slim]

I just clicked on the map link for this event and it shows the office near the Kenwood mall. I'm assuming that's not where the match takes place.

[jmdavis]

I think that is a google issue. When I clicked on the map it actually showed me the location of the office of the Virginia Shooting Sports foundation in Orange VA.



Directions from the Miami web page.

http://www.miamirifle-pistol.org/directions.php

[WY_Not]

Also, don't try and use your sling in the standing stage of an NRA High Power match.    Got hollered at once for doing that. 

[proneshooter]

NRA Highpower Rifle is, in the end, a sport.  And as such it has its rulebook.  Not using the sling for support in the standing position is one of those rules.

Not sure why you got yelled at, there's no reason to be rude about rule enforcement.  I will say that the flip side also goes.  I've seen people who get all defensive and even start ranting, raving, and being offensive when told politely that something they are doing is a rule violation.