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Stage 1 Standing - Is sling required?

Started by cyclingbob, September 05, 2013, 01:18:50 PM

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cyclingbob

North Berwick 9/14 and 15, 2013.

Right handed shooter.

I have been using my support arm (left arm) with elbow resting on front of hip and left support hand on trigger housing. This is a very stable position for me and I have been using this position for several years.

Is a sling required for Stage 1.

I could not find a link to the rules. I am sure the rules are posted but I could not find them.

Thanks.

Bob

Nero

No, sling is not required, just recommended.

What you're describing is sometimes called 'target style', and I will how that to shooters if their body build / rifle combination suggests it might work better.  It can be quite stable, but (IMO) is more sensitive to centerfire recoil in rapid fire.  OTOH, 2:00 is an eternity, you won't be pressed for recovery time.
"Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters." —Frederick Douglass

dond

For several months I have been teaching a combination of the Target Style and sling. I loosen the sling enough that I can get into the target style. I believer that it gives more support than either style by itself. This combination is also described in the new Instructor Manual.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.  Thomas Jefferson

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.  H. L. Mencken

2 clicks low

If you are coming to our class, you might want to try it our way. It is not THE way. It is A way. You seem to have your way down pat, so try something new. If nothing else it is another tool in the box that you may need sometime.

2cl
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Bluesteel

Quote from: dond on September 06, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
For several months I have been teaching a combination of the Target Style and sling. I loosen the sling enough that I can get into the target style. I believer that it gives more support than either style by itself. This combination is also described in the new Instructor Manual.

This is how I do it for AQT's.  We need to keep in mind that CMP competition (such as rimfire sporter) doesn't allow the sling in standing.  Since I have an interest in possibly competing, I do a lot of practice without the sling.

olefido

I have used the sling since I started Appelseed. I tried 10 rds Standing last night without the sling only because I forgot to stick it in my shoot bag before I headed to the range. I shot a score of 45 on the standard 100 yd silouhette at 25m without the sling using a regular stance. That was 7-5, 1-4, 2-3 on the scoring. I am interested to see if I can duplicate or exceed with the sling this weekend. I found that without the sling though that I was concentrating more on my grip, breathing, trigger squeeze, and follow through.

In the past, I think I have been worrying too much about that perfect sight picture and not on the six steps. So I just concentrated on my fundamentals and allowed the small wobble that came naturally. I think trying to hold that perfect sight picture increases the wobble because I was putting more muscle into the shot and it made me tire faster.
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The Old Guide

I am 6' 2" tall. My elbow doesn't reach my hip when standing. I use the Appleseed stance, get NPOA and generally shoot a 49 or 50 standing. NPOA and the six steps get the job done. Make sure your elbow is directly under the barrel or you'll wobble side to side.
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cyclingbob

Combining the sling with target style sounds like a great idea.

I have reduced magnification on scope.

I find that the wobble forms a figure 8 and eventually settles down. Pressing the trigger at this ebb in the wobble is where the money is for me.

Good point to position  supporting (left) elbow under the barrel.

Thanks for the valuable posts.

Bob

oladcock

Quote from: dond on September 06, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
For several months I have been teaching a combination of the Target Style and sling. I loosen the sling enough that I can get into the target style. I believer that it gives more support than either style by itself. This combination is also described in the new Instructor Manual.

O0 O0 Yep, if you can't get your elbow against your body, the sling is too tight. Shooting NRA silhouettes where no sling was allowed, it drove me nuts finding what was most stable. After I did (lots of in-house experimentation and dry firing), getting the same position with the sling is incredibly stable....O.L.
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cyclingbob

Quote from: dond on September 06, 2013, 06:47:59 PM
For several months I have been teaching a combination of the Target Style and sling. I loosen the sling enough that I can get into the target style. I believer that it gives more support than either style by itself. This combination is also described in the new Instructor Manual.

Hi Dond,

Trying to fine tune the standing stage with Target Style and sling for the North Berwick ME shoot on 9/13.

Are you using the loop or hasty sling in the combination of  Target Style and sling above? Can you post the combination as explained in the Instructor's manual or give me a link so I could take a peek?

During my dry fire I am experimenting  with both loop and target style combo and am able to keep the sling parallel to the ground with left arm support on left side. I am curious what you and other Appleseeders suggest. Also if this is stupid idea let me know. Going to the range tomorrow to test.

I appreciate your previous post and your current help.

Target Style and sling is like using belt and suspenders. I need all the help I can get.

Cheers,

Bob

dond

Hi Bob,

Most of us prefer the hasty sling in the standing position. And the important part of it is to have the sling as high in your armpit as possible so that you get a good triangle with the sling and your two arm segments. Just using the hasty with the sling lying along your forearm does not give much support. In combining the hasty sling and the Target Style, the same principle holds, and the sling should be good and snug. And your upper arm should be in good contact with your ribs, resting upon them. To get your NPOA, close your eyes and move your rifle in horizontal arcs, from fairly large ones, decreasing them until it feels most comfortable. Open your eyes. The sights will be on your NPOA. Then move your trigger foot to place that NPOA onto the target. Then confirm it by closing your eyes and taking a breath. Open your eyes and see if you need to repeat moving your leg again. You should also confirm that the sights move vertically as you breath. This should negate any type of horizontal figure 8 discussed previously. If a figure 8 appears, then you don't have your NPOA. And if you try and fire at the center of the 8, you will be jerking the trigger, which is also bad. Good luck.
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.  Thomas Jefferson

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.  H. L. Mencken

cyclingbob

Hi dond,

Thanks very much for your response.

I will use the hasty/target combo  and follow your detailed instructions below. Will dry fire a bunch starting tomorrow and for several days  in prep for of live fire days at the range.

Looking forward to the change with no horizontal figure 8 and a solid NPOA.

I appreciate your help.

Bob

jmdavis

If you choose to shoot or have to shoot while the reticle is moving. Make sure you do it as it is coming into the target and not going out of the target.

Steady, even pressure straight to the rear on the trigger (or as close as you can get to that depending on your body and rifle size. You don't want to pick the time to make the gun go bang, you want to pick when you begin your trigger squeeze. Practice helps with that.
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cyclingbob

Bob
Quote from: jmdavis on September 03, 2014, 12:26:24 PM
If you choose to shoot or have to shoot while the reticle is moving. Make sure you do it as it is coming into the target and not going out of the target.

Steady, even pressure straight to the rear on the trigger (or as close as you can get to that depending on your body and rifle size. You don't want to pick the time to make the gun go bang, you want to pick when you begin your trigger squeeze. Practice helps with that.

Jim,

Thanks very much.

Bob

Guntuckian

Target style with loop sling works well with .22 rifles. Hasty sling works well with both rim fire and center fire rifles.  Target style with loop sling jumps around more with center fire.  The effectiveness ultimately comes down to what works for you.  Try it both ways, and learn what works for you.  It can also vary from rifle to rifle even for the same shooter.

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