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Riley, IN Appleseed AUG 30-31

Started by hawkhavn, August 31, 2008, 11:22:59 PM

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hawkhavn

All,

I'll kick off the discussion for another successful Hoosier Appleseed.

Details tomorrow, great shoot, great students, hot, sunny weather both days.

Hawkhavn
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

DaveD

Wow,  what a great weekend to send ammo downrange!  We had one father-daughter and four father-son groups.  Indyjoe and his father (a new shooter today) teamed up to win our shoot the center out of the star and a big hole it was!!! 
Saw a big improvement in scores as the weekend progressed, although the heat started wearing on the shooters in the afternoon.
A really great and attentive group of shooters for sure.
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind."

                                           Thomas Jefferson

indyjoe

#2
First, I want to thank everyone who worked so hard to put this shoot together.  It is one thing to read about an Appleseed shot and quite another to experience one.  I had ordered targets and the rifleman pamphlet from Fred.  The problem was that putting the target out at 25m made me think I was on the butt end of someone's joke.  I could barely see the 400 yard targets, let alone think about hitting one.  The bullets were no where near the first 400 yard red coat we shot.  As I told the instructors this weekend, after putting 5 shots in a black square sighter target, if you would have told me that was possible on Friday, I would have called you a liar.  Putting that fuzzy thing on top of the front post, does puts holes in the target. 

The one thing I heard over and over again was "why couldn't _______ teach shooting this way."  For me it was "why couldn't the coach teach shooting this way."  I tried to shoot with the Rifle Team in college.  I never could shoot consistent targets.  I was always sore afterwords from muscling onto target.  I was never taught about NPOA.  I would be willing to bet that those targets that felt "good" were those where I accidentally found NPOA.  Even a blind mouse gets some cheese.  After not shooting much rifle for 10 years, I see quite a bit of rifle in my future.

I'm kind of frustrated that I didn't follow the 6 steps on my last 400 yd target of the after lunch AQT.  I should have rested for a few seconds, but forced it.  One non scoring shot was the difference between my 207 score and having a rifleman patch.  What amazed me more was that it is possible to shoot an almost 200 score with a splitting head ache and throwing up 5 minutes later.  If you establish NPOA, it doesn't mater if your mind isn't working or your body isn't feeling great.  The shots still hit the paper, despite how bad the heat is getting to you.  To me that says wonders about the training.  If it came time for American Riflemen to defend our home and freedoms again, it won't happen on a shooting mat in ideal conditions.  You might not feel good or may even be injured.  But if you establish NPOA, all of that won't matter. Your shots will still hit the target.  That was the most revealing thing I learned this weekend.  It was worth spending an hour eating and rebuilding my electrolytes before feeling safe to drive home, just to really reinforce that idea in my mind.  This isn't just about punching paper in ideal conditions.  It is learning skills that would get you through the rough times.

My nephew had never fired a rifle, except for BB guns at Boy Scouts.  I watched as he got excited throughout the day, as his groups slowly shrunk.  Then he accidentally shot the first prone target while sitting and scored all shots.  I think that target is what he plans to hang up in his bedroom.  He didn't care about the cobbled together equipment that we had for him.  The safety glasses that were too big and fogged up a little and required his hearing protection to keep on.  Or the rifle that was just a little big for him.  Or the heat.  He just asked me one thing: "When can we come back?"

I learned that I am going to have to build up more LTRs.  I have talked with many family and friends who are currently not shooters, but show interest in attending an Appleseed when I describe my experience.  Many wouldn't be willing (or can't actually afford) to spend $300 for building up a rifle and don't have one of their own.  That is a reasonable cost to turn an average American into someone interested in shooting.  Time to get to work on Step 7.
"It dosen't require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires to people's minds."  Samuel Adams

wcmartin1

"Unhappy it is, though, to reflect that a brother's sword has been sheathed in a brother's breast and that the once-happy and peaceful plains of America are either to be drenched with blood or inhabited by a race of slaves.  Sad alternative!  But can a virtuous man hesitate in his choice?" - George Washington - from a letter to a close friend after the events of April 19, 1775

"There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our (the United States) overthrow.  Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter.  From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence, I must confess that I do apprehend some danger.  I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants, and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men, and become the instruments of their own undoing." - Daniel Webster, June 1, 1837

techres

What a weekend!  It was fun, hot, productive, and full of great students. 

We began early on Saturday after a night of camping (for some of us) the night before.  The weather started cool but soon turned hot.  The range clubhouse provided lots of shade for us as we mustered up and began with safety instructions and our first history lessons:



Soon we were on the line learning positions, the steps of the shot, and the magic of sling use.  Here is IIT Slim making the sitting position look so very easy while IIT Sur+rifle instructs:



Soon the students were putting together what they learned under Line Boss Sur+rifle's watchful eye:



Among all the adults where some great kids who hammered away both at learning and at their targets:



Day two began with new shooters that Sur+rifle took under his wing and quickly caught up with the rest of the group:



There were many great sights of the day: repeat shooters, one visiting rifleman putting down his rifle to help other shooters, and kids gaining the skills needed to teach the generation that will follow long after we are all gone:




And last, but not least, our shooter who made rifleman using a bolt action, iron sighted rifle that he had nearly no experience with before day one:



Bolt action? Iron sights?  Yep!  He hammered it:



To all our shooters, young and old, know that you are one of the best groups we have ever seen.  There were no transition safety violations, no shots after "cease-fire" was called, very high scores across the board, and great attitudes even when the heat was up there and the sun was hammering down.  We would be proud to have each and every one of you back with us again. 

A great Appleseed!

P.S. More pictures/video can be found here: Appleseed 2008: Riley Conservation Club ( 26 images, 1 video)

Appleseed: Bringing the Past into the Present to save our Future.

voortrekker

#5
Glad to hear y'all had a good shoot!

Thanks for sharing your AS experiences. 


It really makes me smile to see and hear about the many family members that attend an Appleseed shoot together.  I'm surprised to see the many attendees that are family.  Watching them learn marksmanship and about our Revolutionary War heritage, together as family.

In my mind, there's not a better way to help preserve our nation's heritage than family members attending an Appleseed shoot together.

In addition, it's just plain family fun!   :)



Thanks for the terrific pictures!!!




If YOU are thinking, WE are winning.

sur+rifle

Quote from: techres on September 01, 2008, 12:41:33 PM
To all our shooters, young and old, know that you are one of the best groups we have ever seen.  There were no transition safety violations, no shots after "cease-fire" was called, very high scores across the board, and great attitudes even when the heat was up there and the sun was hammering down.  We would be proud to have each and every one of you back with us again. 

Hear, hear!  This was a great group of shooters.  The transitions were exceptionally smooth.  And the shooters were also very good about asking questions.  I hope we can do several shoots next year at Riley!

Quote from: indyjoe on September 01, 2008, 11:09:16 AM

My nephew had never fired a rifle, except for BB guns at Boy Scouts.  I watched as he got excited throughout the day, as his groups slowly shrunk.  Then he accidentally shot the first prone target while sitting and scored all shots.  I think that target is what he plans to hang up in his bedroom.  He didn't care about the cobbled together equipment that we had for him.  The safety glasses that were too big and fogged up a little and required his hearing protection to keep on.  Or the rifle that was just a little big for him.  Or the heat.  He just asked me one thing.  "When can we come back?"

He is a real trooper!  And he showed improvement over every course.   I especially liked his comment at the end of the day about wanting to get a boy scout merit badge in rifle.  Maybe at the next Appleseed he can bring his whole troop.   ;D

indyjoe

Quote from: sur+rifle on September 01, 2008, 06:11:05 PM
He is a real trooper!  And he showed improvement over every course.   I especially liked his comment at the end of the day about wanting to get a boy scout merit badge in rifle.  Maybe at the next Appleseed he can bring his whole troop.   ;D

I don't think all would fit in the plane up to Terre Haute, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some down closer to him at Knob Creek.  I might have to build up another LTR before then, from the sounds of things.  I also wouldn't mind driving down there and advancing past high cook.  :)
"It dosen't require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires to people's minds."  Samuel Adams

RHITee93

I can't thank the instructional staff enough for the good time this weekend.  I just happened to hear about the event about a month ago from another member out at Riley, and I am sure glad I did. This was my first Appleseed, and my first exposure to the program other than blindly signing up for it.  I have a couple of daughters that I will have to build an LTR for and get them to some shoots.  Who knows, maybe gun fearing mommy may show up some day.

I should be proof that the techniques they teach at this program work.  Although I have been shooting handgun silhouettes competitively for about 4 years, I didn't know much about shooting a rifle when I showed up on Saturday.  In fact I didn't know how to shoot with a sling, or from a prone or sitting position.  (I had read some articles, but try to figure out a sling without a live body to show you!) By the end of the day on Sunday, I managed to eek out a rifleman score.

This is good stuff, and a heck of a lot of fun.  Hawk, Sur+, techres, usafe, slim, I owe you guys big time!


hawkhavn

All,

Thanks for signing up and telling us your experiences.  It was the pleasure of literally all of the instructors to work with you this weekend.  We had a great time (a little on the warm side), learned a great deal about our abilities and our heritage.  Please consider coming back out later this year or next.  Appleseed will be back in Wabash and Knob Creek in October and Evansville in November.

If you want us closer to you, find a range or a piece of property with a safe backstop and we will be there!
Especially you folks up north!

Hooters Billy thank you for your help on Sunday.  I know those new shooters appreciated it.

IndyJoe, we'll be handing you a patch next time you're out.

RHITee93 you don't owe us a thing, we all owe the Founders a debt that can only be serviced, never paid.  It is the chance to come out and work with great people that keeps us doing this.  12-14 shoots in 2009 and an Instructors Boot Camp that is what we have to look forward to.

Hawkhavn
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

Hooters Billy

Boy what a lot of fun and good people as usual. I didn't get to come down on Fri night like I wanted, but I did get to show up first thing Sat. morning.   

Got to see a few old faces which is always nice. In the very beginning of the day I started out great. Then I watched it all slide down hill. I was thinking "Oh my gosh, I seriously don't think I'm going to pull off a Rifleman score this time." Boy oh boy was it getting hot. It wasn't unbearable, but I'm a winter baby. Anything over 72 is not fun. 68 is just right. Well... I pulled it all back together and at the end of the day we shot an AQT and I crushed it with a 235. The repetition of the skill set taught paid off again and now my trusty LRT has secured me another patch for the second time. I'm three for three now. Thanks to all you instructors, cause I could never had gotten anywhere near a rifleman's score without your passing of knowledge.   

Latter that night the several of us that camped out and talked for a while about a wide range of topics from electric vehicles, to jobs, to politics, to economies, to future Appleseed projects, to history, different energy sources, and of course firearms with a bunch more of other things sprinkled in there why we shooed away some skeeters.   

On day two I decided I would stay off the line and try and help out a friend and his daughter by paying attention and seeing if I could spot anything that could use improvement. Then to my surprise I was asked if I could help out Sur+ keep the 4 new shooters safe on the line and bring them up to speed. Talk about an honor. Not a stack of Rifleman patches high enough that could top that. That to me shows they had trust in me to help Sur+ protect theirs and everyone else's lives and well being on the line and to pass on down the skills they passed on to me and all on my 3rd visit. What an honor. Thank you guys! It was great watching our new shooters improving their skills throughout the day
The four I got to help did so great near the end of the day Hawk came up to Sur+ and I and complimented on how good of a job we did with them. It was very satisfying.

My friends daughter picked up the nickname "Little Red Riding Hood" after she pulled up the hood on her red sweater to keep brass from getting stuck in her hair. The following comment on that new name was "The big bad wolf better watch out for her!" It made for some good laughs. She did really good and gets better on every round of targets. I'm really proud of her and can't even begin to imagine how proud her dad is.

Well that's enough from me. My fingers are getting tired. Got to try and find a place up North so you guys come visit "The Flat Landers" up here.

Hooters Billy
"There is no greater evil then willful ignorance," ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Advice on life from Fred himself to me on 6-21-09:
"If you hope to be a good looking corps, you better hurry up and die soon!"

CQ CQ CQ de KC9MTP

hawkhavn

HB,

Thought you might like the chance to apply some of those hard learned lessons.
BTW, there is an orange hat with your name on it, just say the word.

Hawkhavn
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

funfaler

Shooting at Appleseeds is only surpassed in pleasure by Instructing at Appleseeds!

You get a high, knowing that you are helping others and helping the nation at the same time. 

Yep, the world looks much, much different from under a Red Hat  ;) ;D ;D

The dips in your couch will go away if you get up and take the Seventh Step!

slim

What a great event! So much improvement made by all in attendance. To see the scores on the AQTs go up so much and the groups shrinking down, I almost felt sorry for those Red Coats at the end of the day... almost. What was really nice was to see that every single shooter on the line was not only hitting their targets, but they were nailing them! Even the 10 and 11-year-olds. We talk about Dangerous Old Men, but after this weekend I'm going to be thinking twice about crossing those youngsters as well. 

As said above you shooters made this event easy from an IIT's perspective. Good safe transitions and "a teachable attitude" by all in attendance. We hit you with the Appleseed fire hose but you soaked it all up like a sponge and then asked for more. Great job!

The motivation factor was extra high at this event, even though it was so hot. Give yourselves a big "Huzzzah!" (Just don't waste that victory shot... you may want it later!) I met some great folks here and can't wait to see you on the line again. A big congrats to our new Riflemen and there were several of you that will get it next time, no doubt. But, it's not the patch that makes you a Rifleman, it's your persistence! Keep going with that 7th step and hope to see all of you again real soon.

Remember to do your dry firing and practice getting into and out of positions. The difference between a Dangerous Cook and Rifleman is practice. That's it.

And drink water! Lots and lots of water!

indyjoe

#14
Quote from: slim on September 03, 2008, 05:20:38 AMAnd drink water! Lots and lots of water!

Not just water, but some type of sports drink is important if you are really sweating and your body isn't used to naturally replacing electrolytes that fast.  I wound up with too few electrolytes, but enough water.
"It dosen't require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires to people's minds."  Samuel Adams

Bill 3

#15
First, let me say thank you for another weekend(my second Appleseed).  The instructors outdid themselves and this being the first all hoosier instructed Appleseed says alot about the progress being made in Indiana.  This last Sunday Amber and I had the oppurtunity to "convince" a good friend of mine and his son to join us at the range.  Amber is jumping in head first, learning to teach as she learns to shoot.  I had sent a couple pictures to Hawk who asked me to post them.

Amber helped my friend's son go over safety, function on a LTR, sight picture, proper prone position, and breathing.  I know a few topics were not covered but she sparked an interest and they will be back to the range with us in the near future.

Here's a couple pictures:
[attachment=1]
[attachment=3]


In addition to helping another kid learn to shoot, she managed a 162 on the AQT.  She will be shooting better than I do soon(I'm kinda stuck in the 170's).  She also had an oppurtunity to try out HB's AR.  She wants to upgrade now.....

[attachment=2]

Thank you,

- WRWIII
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Samuel Clemens
"...that any man who yields up his liberty, in however slight the measure, is bound to become a slave." -- H.L. Mencken
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
"...we have the choice to pursue, in the course of our life, one of two sets of principles - either the principles of power and privilege or the principles of truth and justice. If you pursue truth and justice it will always mean a diminution of your power and privilege. If you pursue power and privilege it will always be at the expense of truth and justice."
The forum is but a blank slate that records what we type.  If it sucks, why is that?  Anyone have an extra mirror for people?

hawkhavn

Brokensling,

Amber looks like she know what she is doing, for sure.
See you and HB on the line again soon.

HB,

How does it feel to see one of your students instructing?

Hawkhavn
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

sparkie

I was the one there with the two boys, I would like thank the instructors, especially the ones who spent all the time with my youngest one.  All three of us have seen great improvements with our shooting, and we are practicing. We are prepared to do the Appleseed all over again. We are looking forward to the Evansville shoot. Hope to see you all there. Thanks again for all your help and time.

hawkhavn

Sparkie,

Thank you for coming out and bringing the boys as well.  Glad to hear you picked up a few things.
Evansville is going to be a good one, I can feel it already.  Remember to bring along another truckload of friends/family/co-workers.

Hawkhavn
Criticism is the only known antidote to error.  David Brin

What a nation has done, a nation can aspire to.
Dr. Jerry Pournelle

Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.

This is known as "bad luck."
---Robert Anson Heinlein

"Great things have been effected by a few men well conducted." - George Rogers Clark

"Appleseed is a safe place to learn because they care. They have the confidence and serenity of spring gardeners." 1IV on AR15.com

Hooters Billy

Quote from: hawkhavn on September 08, 2008, 08:01:33 PM
Brokensling,

HB,

How does it feel to see one of your students instructing?

Hawkhavn

It was one of the coolest things to ever see. I was at the range at the 225yrd side. I finished up before them so I went over to see how Amber was doing on her practice AQT's. The 25yrd range is just on the left side of the 225yrd berm so as I came around it and looked up I saw same sight picture you guys see posted up. She was just a talk'n and show'n away on how to do it all on her own from what I saw and it was working cause the target they had set up for him had holes in it where they belonged.

She hasn't been a full student of mine. I just kept an eye out and reminded her of a few things every once in a while. I do plan on spending time with her and her dad down at the range working with them. I'd like to see if I can help both take home a patch from Evansville.
"There is no greater evil then willful ignorance," ~ Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe

Advice on life from Fred himself to me on 6-21-09:
"If you hope to be a good looking corps, you better hurry up and die soon!"

CQ CQ CQ de KC9MTP