Vale, OR Known Distance 4/27-28

[Kimber Custom]

Man, felt like my first Appleseed all over again. KD offers a whole new fire hose to drink from and yet somehow I'm eager to do it again. Douglas Ridge is going to be hearing from me 

Couldn't let ItsanSKS come all the way down from Alaska and not shoot at least a few rounds



Whose bright idea was it to eat at 0630???


Huge thanks to Snake River Sportsman's Club - what a beautiful range and at $35 a year membership is a no brainer.





















































A stage 1 you can be proud of


And stage 2


Okay and stage 3


Oops, watch that wind


Darned fine shooting Mike


And welcome Scoob - our newest IIT and KD Rifleman; clearly someone who knows what he is about



Now, where did I put my rifle? I've got some dry practice to do

[Mark Davis]

The first day went slow with sighters and record keeping we did two AQTs and for fun fired three rounds at an IPSIC silhouette stapled to a stick walked up and down the pit, from 200 yards.
Second day we fired two AQTs Two Rifleman badges were awarded to Mike who's high score was 247 and Scoob.
Scoob agreed to take an orange hat.
Variable wind conditions are an abundant commodity at the Snake Rive Spotsmans Range Vale Or.
Shooters, jugggling the moves from fireing line to fireing line, sight adjustments often overlooked air movement during a fireing string.
Shooters on this range soon learn to judge the wind with every shot.

[George Hacker]

Wow!  What a wonderful experience that far surpassed my high expectations.

First, thank you to the Snake River Sportsman Club for letting us use your range.  Don, thank you for your instruction on how to read and use mirage when using scopes.

Weather was nice - warm and windy.  RL and I carpooled together so when we drove into the range at 2:00am Saturday morning we put up our cots, spread out our sleeping bags, and slept under the open sky.  The stars were amazing.  Thank you, scoob, for keeping the small lamp on so we could find camp easily in the dark (although it was a beautiful full moon).

RL shot first, I learned how to work in the pit.  I kept score and patched his target.  Next time I will take a picture of each marked target so we can look at it later.  On Sunday we used greencoat targets to record where our partner's hits were in relation to the silhouette of each stage of shooting.

Now I know my rifle's come ups.  I was shooting my M1 Garand with standard sights.  I used Greek HXP M2 ball.  I have to go up 14 clicks from bottom to shoot a 100 yd target.  Then I need to come up 2 more clicks for 200 yd shooting, 2 additional clicks for 300 yds, and 4 more clicks for 400 yds.  Although it was windy, I didn't get tossed around on the target as much as the .22 caliber shooters.  I only had to adjust for wind once to keep on target - huzzah for the .30-06 cartridge.

On Saturday, I used Kentucky windage to compensate for the wind, but Don said that we should keep a consistent sight picture and adjust for windage.  I took his advice on Sunday - it worked much better.

Scoob - thank you for the wonderful meal Saturday night.  The meat was grilled perfectly and the potatoes were delicious.  It was great camping out and sitting in a circle with the other shooters.  We couldn't have an open campfire because of fire risk on the range.

Although I almost shot KD rifleman with open sights (189!), I know what I need to work on to prepare for my next event.  I need to work on my steady hold factors, especially for prone, because high power reveals your weaknesses in that area.  I also need to get the DOPE for my rifle using different ammo under different weather conditions.  This event has helped me understand my sighting system better and it has given me much more confidence shooting my M1 Garand.  I have shot out to 200 yards before, but this event was the first time I have shot beyond that range.

Thank you, Mark, for running a great shoot.  Thank you, ItsanSKS, for coming down and helping.  It was a pleasure meeting you and your instruction and coaching was very helpful.  Thank you, Kimber Custom, for covering the Libertyseed in Hermiston so RL and I could ride together.  Thank you, RL, for the great conversation to/from the event.

ShadowMan

PS:  The club seemed open to the idea of having us come out again this year.  We are thinking about having a 3-day event.  A couple of our western Washington instructors are trying to identify an appropriate 100, 200, 300, and 400 yd venue in our part of the state as well.

[George Hacker]

Of course we need picture of scoob getting his orange hat.  Thanks for stepping up to help bail!

Mark presents scoob with the orange hat:



Mark and ItsanSKS congratulate the new recruit.  Orange looks good on you, scoob:

[scoob]

First of all... The Range:  Holy Cow!  400+ acres and a target-pit-type range with raised shooting positions out to 1000.  I imagine there's a name for that type of range?  It reminds me of one that's a little closer to home, not that 75 miles to this one is considered a long drive though.  The complex is impressive, as well as the stories behind it's development.  Many thanks to Snake River Sportsman - Don, Mike, and Rod for getting us shoe-horned into a full range calendar.  Another discipline actually gave up their slot for us to shoot this weekend.

This was my third Appleseed shoot, but my first time seriously shooting at a distance over 100 yards, so the new information was rather overwhelming.  Adjusting for wind speed & direction at various points along the range, wind changing directions mid-stage, temp, sun position...  did I mention wind?  Oh yeah, It took a few stages on Saturday to finally figure out that I wasn't writing down enough.  Add to that, all I had loaded up was 55gr .223!  But Sunday, it finally clicked, and I started to figure out what to write, why, and what to do with the information. 

Many thanks to the shoot boss, Mark Davis.  Mark was SB for all three shoots I've attended, and I look forward to many more.  Thanks to ItsanSKS for making the long trip all the way down from biggest (and my favorite) state in the union.  I'd love to help out in Alaska some day... I'll just have to plan it about a year-or-so in advance!  Thanks to Shadowman for that extra encouragement and finally getting me over that edge to pick up the orange bucket!  It was great to be on the line, in the pits, and in camp with really cool people that know what they're about!

[Audrey]

I knew shooting KD would be a learning experience, but it ended up as more fun than I was anticipating. I did alright on day one but had equipment or data problems on day two; my 300-400 MOA come up went from being the normal four MOA on day one to being zero MOA on day two, which makes zero sense. Wind also played havoc with a few of my shots. It's easy to think you know about wind, but applying those principals is a whole other story. There's definitely more learning to be had between me and the rifle.


Sadly collecting data for distances beyond 200 yards will be difficult for me since the ranges near to me are all limited to that distance. Also the Willamette valley does not provide much wind to practice with. I wish we had a range like Snake River Sportsman closer than a seven hour drive!


Meeting everyone was a lot of fun. Thank you to the range and those who organized this event. It was incredible and I hope to do it again!

[Pa Rah]

As Vice-President of Snake River Sportsmen I want to thank everyone who participated in a great weekend.

After reading the posts everyone seemed to find the new challenges that full distances always provide, but it sure was fun. Thanks again to everyone who flew/drove for hours and hours to make it to Vale Oregon.

Wrapping up Sunday there was mention made of having a Know Distance Boot Camp. I plan to make my report of this past weekend to the board and ask permission for such an event the next time we meet.

How about it? Is anyone interested in doing a Monday thru Friday Known Distance Appleseed? Let me know.

[peterlandsiedel]

I'm bummed to have missed this shoot, looks like everyone had a good time and learned lots.

A KD boot camp sounds enticing. If you do it during the summer, I could probably make that work.

[fisherdawg]

This is a beautiful Range!

[Kimber Custom]

I for one would be all over a week of KD shooting. I would need time to plan (and replenish my vacation time) though so next spring/summer would be my preference.

[Audrey]

How about it? Is anyone interested in doing a Monday thru Friday Known Distance Appleseed? Let me know.

At least a three day event would be great, so we have more time to really collect data about our rifles for those of us without regular access to a 200+ yard range. A whole week could be tough on the work schedule for me, but maybe. It's definitely a great location!

[RL]

I'm in for whatever duration. I'm tempted to join the range and make a point of stopping in whenever I'm in the area.

[Mark Davis]

First off I want to thank Scoob for the great meal he cooked Saterday evening. HUZZZAAAAAGGGHHH!

Pa Rah and I talked of the boot camp Sunday evening, along with discussing Don's suggestions.

Pa Rah had some ideas, embellished my me so what if?

We scheduled a boot camp starting some fine Monday morning.
On the Sunday before the boot camp Don could have one of his marksmanship clinics as a huge bonus to the appleseeders who can be there. The weekend of appleseed customary after rifleman boot camp could be held at Nampa.

If the day of Don's clinic was the day after one the club's scheduled Saterday events no activities on the range would have to give up their normal shoot date.

The boot camp should work from just one distance each day so shooters can witness sun angle's effect on sight settings.

[scoob]

First off I want to thank Scoob for the great meal he cooked Saturday evening.

And not even one wise guy asked "So, are you a rifleman or a cook?   

KD-RBC... I'm in.  I'd be an idiot if I passed one up this close to home.

On the Sunday before the boot camp Don could have one of his marksmanship clinics as a huge bonus to the appleseeders who can be there.

Heck Yeah!  Turn on the vacuum and suck as much knowledge out of that man's head as possible! 

The weekend of appleseed customary after rifleman boot camp could be held at Nampa.

So if it's this year, that'll make it June or October then?

   

[ItsanSKS]

First, I'd like to extend my gratitude to the Snake River Sportsmen Range, and the hard work and dedication of it's staff and volunteers.  You guys have a fantastic facility, and given half a chance, I'd be back there in a heartbeat. 

Next, I'd like to thank ShadowMan and KimberCustom- were it not for you two, I wouldn't have been able to make it. 

Mark, I appreciate the sacrifice you made to run this event, and want to thank you for taking time away from home and family to ensure a great time was had by all.


And what a fun event it was!  Even though I performed line boss duties for most of the weekend, I could tell that the students were having a blast.  And really, what's not to love?  Riflemen (and women!) getting to know their much-neglected center fire rifles, testing their skills against the venerable Army Qualification Target. 

Everyone learned (quickly) that the Steady Hold Factors are taught for a reason- that .30 caliber rifles will push you around if you let them.  Also on the 'lesson learned' list is the importance of a rifle data book, and USING IT.  "The dullest pencil has a better memory than the sharpest mind"

It was a tough weekend; once rifles got to the line, there was very little time for jawjacking or lolligagging.  AQT after AQT, scores were steadily improving throughout the weekend.  This instructor could tell that the shooters were 'getting it'.  "Bring only that which you NEED to the firing line".  And #1 on the list of things NEEDED?  A teachable attitude.  Those that brought it, found themselves improving.

Scoob- thanks for dinner on Saturday; you put out an awesome spread, and even though I was late for dinner (not an unusual circumstance as anyone who has met me might guess) there was plenty of (great) food left.  Congratulations on shooting a rifleman score at full distance.  Not an easy feat, which you might have surmised. 

Josh-  I applaud your efforts to run a 'real rifle' this weekend, and an M1 Garand certainly qualifies as a 'real rifle'.  Stop neglecting that rifle, and dry-fire it!  Get used to the positions, loading (with snap caps) the 2/8 round clips, and practice your transitions.  Your technique was good (could use some polishing, of course) and I don't think it will take long at all for you to get into the rhythm. 

Audrey- You are one 'squared away' chick.  You brought an empty cup to this event, and I could see it filling up throughout the course of the weekend.  Even though you may not have 300 & 400 yards available at your home range, that doesn't mean you can't practice the fundamentals.  Work through the fundamentals at 25m with your rifle, get fully acquainted with it.  Know your rifle.  And, tell Josh that if he wants to shoot an AR, he'll have to get one of his own!   

Paul- I was glad to see that equipment failures on Saturday didn't dampen your spirits one bit.  I know, personally, how it feels to have a rifle that disappoints.  Coming back on Sunday for a fresh start with a new rifle is tough.  Changing from scope to irons is tough.  Doing both in a condensed weekend like we ran, is tough.  And you did it all with a smile on your face.  It was a pleasure working with you.  If that other rifle doesn't work out, feel free to send it to me for disposal 

To all of our students this weekend:  DRY FIRE.  Not a suggestion.  Not a request.  If you want to improve your marksmanship skills with your rifle, you MUST dry fire practice.  Read the following article, paying especially close attention to the "advanced dry fire techniques" written in part by yours truly: http://appleseedinfo.org/smf/index.php?topic=34387.msg254085#msg254085

When (and ONLY WHEN) your dry fire practice tells you that everything is coming together, take that rifle to the range, and test your skills against the 25m QD-AQT.  You should be able to consistently score 210 or above with that center fire rifle before concerning yourself with actual distance, and the techniques required to deal with wind and gravity. 

[Audrey]

Even though you may not have 300 & 400 yards available at your home range, that doesn't mean you can't practice the fundamentals.  Work through the fundamentals at 25m with your rifle, get fully acquainted with it.  Know your rifle.  And, tell Josh that if he wants to shoot an AR, he'll have to get one of his own!

I would definitely like to get more acquainted with the AR, which is technically Josh's property. Hopefully we can get more time on the range locally, even at shorter distances, since we'll have more hours of daylight to play with. (: I think a different scope would help. Mark Davis mentioned that my equipment, which requires a flathead (or penny) to adjust, may not be meant for varying distances like this. There are many factors now to consider.

I appreciate all your work and suggestions!

[ItsanSKS]

I would definitely like to get more acquainted with the AR, which is technically Josh's property.

I think ownership goes to the one who shoots it better...   

Hopefully we can get more time on the range locally, even at shorter distances, since we'll have more hours of daylight to play with.

Don't forget your dry fire practice!  It really makes all the difference in the world. 

I think a different scope would help.

I think Iron Sights would help more.  Many of your groups showed evidence of fussing the shot, or focusing on the target, rather than focusing on the front sight, or reticle, in this case.  If your vision will allow it, and I think it will, using irons instead of glass will likely be beneficial to your group size. 

I appreciate all your work and suggestions!

Your very welcome!  I had a grand ole time this weekend, even though I barely got to shoot; working with students and seeing them improve, well, that's just about as much fun as anyone can hope for.

[Mark Davis]

In regards to the rifle that fits Audrey, yet Josh has yet to release.
The rifle fits Audrey, front sling swivel on that stubby upper is just right for her to get good support.
Josh, save your money, buy reloading tools,  then save some more, and get a 20" national match AR.
An AR loaded with 75 grain bullets is capable of so much more than one loaded with 55 grain bullets.

[ID_Hezekiah]

Great photos, beautiful range, and I had already scoped out that the weather was going to be great before I "came down" with the Chinese Chicken Killer Flu bug! I was essentially completely out of action Thursday morning through Tuesday morning, and back to work, but still hacking and wheezing - really bad timing.  If there's any furhter KD action planned over there, I'm still in.

[RomeoEchoBravo]

I learned so much from the KD experience.  There is nothing to compare the experience with a 25 yard Quick and dirty shoot.  I'll be back with Iron next year and leaving the scope at home.  Rod made me feel welcome and was a wealth of information about me and my equipment.  I took so much data home I'm still analyzing it all.   Thanks to everyone who assisted me by providing guidance.