Myakka City,Feb.25-26 2012 (MGAR)

[Sly223]

Thank you Fellow patriots for Refreshing my Soul with the type of pride,I thought I might never feel again about my fellow Americans.
I will Start By thanking The Manatee Gun and Archery Range for Hosting this event as this Venue has always been very good to us even though there was a sched. error for Sunday it was worked out and we were able to utilize the Turtle Flats Cowboy action Shooters Range This was tight Quarters compared to our Area 51.
I also want to thank,
My hard workin' instructors,
PHenrery,SB-Willorith,DSB-Sly223,SBIT-Airplane Joe,IIT1.
Possible promotions,
Airplane joe-IIT-2
Sly223-SB Will keep everyone posted,When official.

A quick Thanks and Shout out to the California crew led by Johnny Appleseed, In an odd twist of fate he had a sched. issue the week prior and I inquired, as to how they were able to make such a smooth transition, from one Range to another. This insight afforded me and  my crew an oppoutunity and with the  experience of our Sr. Crew. We were able to pull it off and look good,doing it.  It led to a very quaint event where all participants and instructors alike benefited from the intimacy of this event.
Intro. from PHenrey and First strike from Sly223 then to the 911 plan and Safety rules. Set and cleared the line and posted the Hits count Targets.
Initially the first quiz of the day, showed definite room for improvement even though a few did o.k.
We then broke out the fire hose of instruction,and the marksmanship quickly began to improve.
These shooters were Great they Brought a teachable Attitude,and exhibited the type of characteristics, that were possesed by our Ancestors.
Persistence,Grit, Perseverance,Self reliance.
These folks were not Scared off by the Weather report, which by the Way with the Yankee forcasters Saying 70 percent chance of Rain, not a drop all weekend, it was beautiful,
breezy, slightly overcast, Cool, Perfect!
I will continue this,after I post this portion.
I want to get this up& out ASAP so I can get Quality Feedback from All who Participated, and or were present!
I was reminded of what Sam Adams Told John Hancock on April19,1775,What a beautiful, Glorious Day, to which Hancock, replies yes it is a nice day.Adams responds not for the weather for Liberty.

[stoneknives]

2nd Appleseed  25Feb2012

Had a great day Saturday with my daughter, son and sons girlfriend. During the trip home my daughter and I decided we would ditch church (sorry LORD) and come back and shoot Sunday. But SWMBO put the nix on that idea and sadly we had to do the KP, chores and repair's we had promised to do. No fun for Dad and Carolina.

Son, Joey had decided he wanted to shoot this Appleseed with his Remington 511 bolt gun. Fast shooting and his equipment (with the hp ammo he chose to feed it) caused him a lot of points. Hopefully he might clean out his ear's and listen next time. But I remember many years ago when I knew everything too.

Carolina (daughter) was having a good day learning her new 10/22 that I just finished setting up for her LTR style and she almost doubled her score from her last Appleseed. She was satisfied with the progress she's making on the rifle. She is a pretty fair pistol shot and at our first Appleseed in December she thought that shooting rifles would be a snap. God has a way of giving all the humility lessons we need.

Speaking of humility, I was having a bad shooting day mentally and it showed in my AQT score of 178. But the RO's kept the pace moving and we were able to shoot another AQT this time I got into my shooting mantra and kept going over and over my shooting steps as I taught . Because of this I was rewarded with a 205, that was with 2 clean misses on the first target of the bottom row (I stopped, used my steps and shot the next targets pretty well). So my AQT's are running 202, 178 and 205. I'm knocking on the door, with some more training, practice and faith I'll be sewing on that Rifleman's patch.

Mucho' thanks to the RO's for making the day a great learning experience.

Henry, Carolina and Joseph

[airplanejoe]

Huzzah!! Observed performance a the end of day 1 was encouraging. Motivation was high and the learning curve was rising. Unfortunately for me I was only able to stay one day (Sat). I've never seen an Appleseed event where a different range was used on day 2, but it sounds like the SB took it in stride and made it work. Improvise, adapt, overcome!!
Anyway guys, now you have all the tools needed to achieve Rifleman status. It's up to you to think about those tools and understand their use. Do not practice, TRAIN; practicing is fun and easy, training is still fun, but requires a lot more effort. You will be rewarded.

airplanejoe

[airplanejoe]

Guys, browsing through past AAR's I ran into the Pensacola, FL AAR  02/04 - 02/05. Check it out; a shooter bagged a 250 AQT!! It even has a picture of his target. A perfect score seems like the search for the silver chalice, but it can be done. Mastery of the fundamentals makes you an advanced shooter.

airplanejoe

[PHenry]

This was a great event for sure. I gauge all events I work by the amount of improvement in marksmanship and the number of folks who seek to shake our hands before leaving and this event did well in those most important respects. It was very rewarding to work with such fine Americans - both students and instructors.

After we had concluded the official program of instruction, sir Willorith suggested bringing out some serious rifles for anyone wishing to learn what recoil means, up close and personal. And so a couple of fine young men got a solid taste of what .30 means. 

I pity them Boy Scouts who canceled for fear of rain - rain that never came, as Lady Liberty herself must have been on our side. 

I am honored to have spent two days with each of you and I'll never say diffrnt.
In Liberty,
PHenry

[LadyMiddlebrook]

This was my husband and my second Appleseed.  It had been about 4 months since our 1st AS in St. Augustine.  This AS was considerably different since we both shot with barrel-loading 22s the first shoot.  We brought our ARs for this one - his an AR 223 and mine a brand new pink cammo AR-22...it had only been shot three times just to zero in the scope.

We were immediately happy with the range as this time we could park right by where we were shooting.  Also, there was so much room - St Aug was beyond tight.  Another very important thing for us this time was that we were able to hear the history...in St Aug there was so much gunfire that the stories were hard to hear at times - even though those telling them were almost screaming them. 

Once we started shooting, I quickly realized that I loved the AR style gun so much better.  However, at some point halfway through the day, the bolt on my gun "exploded" as the guy at Shoot Straight put it when I turned it in to be sent to     S & W.  I could not believe that my brand new gun was broke - it was funny because PHenry saw how my group opened up from being pretty tight, and he called for a check on the guns prior to the next shots.  Everything seemed normal....two bullets later, broke gun. 

Now, Sly-223 had been helping my husband and I all day, and once again - he came through for me big time!  He loaned me his Ruger Ar-22.  I took the rest of the shoots to get over my brand new gun being broke and getting the scope zeroed in.  The next day I did much better than my first AS....it seems like on the 2nd AS my elbow bent under the gun like it was suppose to..LOL!  My best was a 176  ....really wanted that purple patch, but all in all I am very pleased with the entire weekend! 

Thanks so much to Brian, Joe, PHenry, and most especially SLY-223!  You allowed me to have a great weekend instead of a bummer one!  You guys were also so patient and supportive, and I truly appreciate it!  We are coming back to Myakka in June to try again!  Gonna practice too!     

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

I want to thank the Appleseed instructors (P Henry, Sly 223 and Airplane Joe) for an awesome weekend! You guys taught my wife and I what marksmanship truly involves, and made it entertaining too!   I feel that like we are knocking on the Rifleman door with a 195 and 176.  We will be earning the patch!  We deeply appreciate you and your service to this amazing nation that we are blessed to call our home.   We are looking forward to seeing you all again in June at MGAR!!  Thank you Sly 223 for lending my wife the AR 22, hers went to Smith -n- Wesson that Sunday night on the way home.   Always Free,   Son of Summers Middlebrook

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

Sorry!  Didn't want to forget my buddy Brian too from Nephron in Orlando!!  Brian, You are an example of true grit!  I know how allergies drag you down! I suffer from them also.  Thank you for sticking it out to the very end!
See you soon,
Son of Summers Middlebrook

[theri]

We were immediately happy with the range as this time we could park right by where we were shooting.  Also, there was so much room - St Aug was beyond tight.  Another very important thing for us this time was that we were able to hear the history...in St Aug there was so much gunfire that the stories were hard to hear at times - even though those telling them were almost screaming them. 

LadyMiddlebrook

The range that we normally use at St Augustine is much better than the range that we had in November.  You might want to come back to St Augustine as I believe that the above issues will not be present.

Terry

[Sly223]

Nice Try Therri,
The middlebrooks, are my students and I have their Patches Waiting!

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

Sly 223,
I have an opportunity to purchase Federal 5.56 ammo at a great price.  1000 rounds for $299.00.  My AR is sighted in with .223, will this make a huge difference?  BTW, We love Terry and his passion for Appleseed, but we are your students now. Hang on to those patches for us!

[LadyMiddlebrook]

Hi, Terry -
It is great to hear from you, and we did enjoy the AS with you guys up there too.  We have already set the plans in motion to go back down to Myakka City.  I will never forget what the purple patch means because of the heartfelt story that you told us of the "Riflewoman" that it was made in memory of!  Take care!
LadyMiddlebrook

[airplanejoe]

Greeting Guys,

Ths posting is an attempt to answer Son of Summers Middlebrook regarding ammo for an AR. Take a look at your rifle; on the barrel or on the receiver you will see stamped the caliber, 5.56 or .223. The consensus appears to be that you can safely shoot .223 on a 5.56 rifle, but the reverse is not true (5.56 on a .223 rifle). It has to do with headspace issues and increased pressures.
Hope this helps.

Airplanejoe

[airplanejoe]

This is the second part of my last posting. My AR is 5.56. I shoot whatever I can get my hands on. This is what I've found: At 25 yds the POI difference is neglegible. At 100+ yds you will begin to notice a difference. Specially if you use different bullet weights.

[PHenry]

Remember IMC and how gravity affects a round - the heavier rounds fall faster. If a 77 grain round offers a 2" drop over a 55 grain round - that's 2MOA, and it will offer the same drop at 25 yards - in minute of angle.

So, Son of Summers Middlebrook - here's an extra credit question:
If a 77 grain round offers a 2" drop over a 55 grain round at 100 yards - how many inches will it fall at 25 yards when compared to the 55 grain round? 

Marksmanship - The tradition of the Rifleman - an American tradition dating back hundreds of years. Our tradition!

[Johnnyappleseed]

OMG 
The PH question is another example of why attending events with different SBs /IITS is always so much fun 
No only fun , but  much to learn from others who dedicate so much  energy to change the course of history.
Riflemen Middlebrooks , Each of you have already  which cannot be taught; The heart of Riflemen.

[airplanejoe]

"Remember IMC and how gravity affects a round - the heavier rounds fall faster. If a 77 grain round offers a 2" drop over a 55 grain round - that's 2MOA, and it will offer the same drop at 25 yards - in minute of angle."

PH: I agree with your conclusion, but not how you got it. Gravity is gravity, it has the same effect on all solid bodies. Everything falls at 32 ft/sec/sec. I would submit for consideration that if you dropped, at the same time and from the same height a 55 grain weight and a 77 grain weight, they would both hit the ground at the same time.
I'm a 55 grain person, so I haven't experimented with 77 grain bullets, but I would suspect  that the heavier bullet's horizontal component will decay faster, but the vertical component (gravity) will remain the same. If it takes longer to travel the same distance, gravity will have more time to act on it, therefore the vertical drop will be larger.
I can run the scenario on my exterior ballistics software and see what it should be, but actual groups always trump theoretical data.
Just my 2cents worth.

airplanejoe

[Sly223]

Math problem?
1/4 the distance 1/4 the effect=1/2" at 25 m!and still2MOA.

[Nero]

   Great (pedantic) minds think alike. I was about to post pretty much the same thing - I believe Galileo had something to say about it back in the day.    (I don't think he was a rifleman, but he did help invent scopes!  )

Seriously, for the same amount of energy (powder) the heavier bullet will travel more slowly (that one-half mv squared thing - thanks Isaac!)  and hence have more drop vs. distance.  And since you usually put less powder under a heavier projectile due to pressure considerations, there's likely even less energy than the lighter round, and hence even less velocity.  (And since some of the velocity is vertical, due to sight/barrel convergence, you'll also have less 'loft' in the middle of trajectory.)

/pedant

[Johnnyappleseed]

Math problem?
1/4 the distance 1/4 the effect=1/2" at 25 m!and still2MOA.

that was my answer too

[PHenry]

ApJoe,
Thank you for the clarification - I stand corrected.  The 77 grain projo falls sooner because of its slower velocity, which is a result of it's greater weight / mass - basic physics. The 55 grain FMJBT round runs about 3250' per second (or can with correct recipe to match M193 mil round), whilst the 77 grain HPM round maxes out around 2700 or so, depending upon powder used (must be a slower burning stick powder to avoid over-pressure).

However, that was not the essence of my question to Son of Summers Middlebrook. I was looking to see if we succeeded in our IMC present at the event. The test was actually on the instructors.  If he knew the answer - we done our duty - if not, we need to revise our IMC present.

Sly223 - I know u know the answer!  Darn newbie SBs. 

Back to bailing!

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

WOW!!!  I know where to go to get info. on ballistics!!!  What an awesome forum.  Thank you all for the help!  The ammo is a 55 gr.  bullet and I did get a .5" drop from your math problem.  So you did well PHenry.  Good to hear from you J Appleseed!  Jen and I are excited to get back to Appleseed and earn our Rifleman!!!  BIG TIME!

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

Thank you, Airplane Joe!
My AR does have 5.56 inscribed on the barrel, I have not used them yet.  Only .223.

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

Can anyone help?
I seem to have lost my signature.  It is still showing in my forum profile, but not on my postings.
Anyone have a suggestion?
Thank you

[ItsanSKS]

SoSM-

I took the liberty of examining your forum settings, and could find nothing that would explain the loss of your signature line.

At first I thought it had to do with the AAR forum itself, but 'Nero' had his signature go through...

Will look into it, and report back.

-ItsanSKS

[Johnnyappleseed]

WOW!!!  I know where to go to get info. on ballistics!!!  What an awesome forum.  Thank you all for the help!  The ammo is a 55 gr.  bullet and I did get a .5" drop from your math problem.  So you did well PHenry.  Good to hear from you J Appleseed!  Jen and I are excited to get back to Appleseed and earn our Rifleman!!!  BIG TIME!

We Appleseeders are looking forward to seeing you both achieve Rifleman status 
Your great Florida corp will guarentee you have all the tools required to reach Rifleman.

Many of us recall your and Jen's persisitance and enthusiasim at the   St Augustine  event


Im not the only instructor who has pictured each of you in a nice bright orange instructor hat 

Thank you for the memories  of Terry doing the honor to Jackie Wells. It is certain Jackie was looking down with pride and joy ,watching her fellow Americans pay honor to her efforts at preserving freedom. 

[Son of Summers Middlebrook]

We just realized that we can't make another Appleseed event until the late June event   That stinks!

[Sly223]

Like any other sport Marksmanship is a perishable skill,
Continue your dry fire practice so you don't spend another AS,catching up to where you were!
We will see you when we see you, in the mean time good luck,Also since ya'll are accomplished you can do a Sunday only, its an option that instructors rarely offer to students unless they are accomplished!
If going elsewhere will allow you to attend,by all means do so,its not about me or Theri it's about ya'll!

[airplanejoe]

SoSM: Marksmanship principles need to be continually reinforced. For what it's worth here's what I try to do at least once/week: I made my own targets; it has 3, 4, 6 and 8 inch circles and mimics the AQT target. I place it at 50 yds (at my range I cannot shoot prone or sitting from 25 yds due to range geometry restrictions). For times I use 120, 40, 50 and 300 seconds (I cannot do transitions in my range, so I start from the position the stage is fired; notice the transition stages times are reduced by 15 sec). You do need a timer!! Otherwise you'll never get comfortable with time constraints. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.
I try to shoot this "AQT" twice each range session. Then I shoot twice whatever stage needs the most improvement. The whole session takes me about 1 hour.
In addition, 2 or 3 time a week I'll do "getting into position" stretching (at home).
Like I said in a previous posting, don't practice--TRAIN. And for this you need to have a plan. I guess something similar to the POI the Shot Boss uses.
Hope this helps. Huzzah!!!!
airplanejoe

[TomM1Thumb]

Middlebrook's and Sly223

How about April 21-22 at Rocky Creek Ranch! Help celebrate April 19th a tad late by earning Your Rifleman's Patch at Rocky Creek Ranch! Not too far from Myakka City. Sly there is a shoot boss, and Red hat needed for this Shoot. this could be a way to kill 2 birds with one well placed stone!

I leave it up to You all to think things out.

Me I will be working at NSB that weekend, I have no horse in this race

Tom