Fort Drum, NY August 17-20, 2010 Project Appleseed Marksmanship Training Course

[boltgun71]

What a fantastic shoot.  I don't even know where to begin.  All I can say is this 4 day Appleseed shoot at Fort Drum exceeded anything I could have imagined going into it.  We had a terrific and receptive group of Soldiers to instruct and one of the most experienced and motivated team of instructors I have ever worked with in my life.  Thank you everyone, shooters, instructors, and those behind the scenes that made this a smooth running, absolute success, both within Project Appleseed and in the military.  Below you will find a summary of each day's events.  Everything over the course of the 4 days was all pure Appleseed.  Nothing new or different was done.  Everything was just spread out over the course of 4 days with high quality instruction.

[boltgun71]

Day 1 (25m Instruction)

Day 1 brought us to a covered 25m firing range.  Essentially a large pole barn type structure with one open end that contained the target line.  This kept us protected from the elements which only turned out to be sun and wind, weather wise it was great all week.  The inside of the range was all soft sand with the distance to target line marked along the wall, you could essentially drop into position and fire from anywhere inside the building and be comfortable and by just glancing at the wall know what distance you were firing at.  Of course for us we were only concerned with firing at 25.  The Soldiers all convoyed out to the range as us instructors prepared the range for the days events.  About 9am they arrived and the day's events unfolded.  I gave a welcome brief that included what Project Appleseed and the RWVA is, why we were there, what the Soldiers could expect to learn, introduced the instructors, etc.  The soldiers were all given new USGI slings that were graciously donated by Project Appleseed's "Slings for Soldiers" program.  They were told to remove there current slings and use the GI slings throughout the week and at the end of the week they would be able to keep them and use them as they see fit in the future.  All the soldiers did this and we moved into our instruction after the rifles were set-up.  All of the soldiers were equipped with M4 carbines with either ACOG scopes or Aimpoint red dot sights.  Some of the M4's also had M203 grenade launchers attached to them.  As for firing we had 37 soldiers on day one and our firing line only supported 20 firers at a time so we had to run relays.  This was a first for most of us instructors but we had a plan in place and it ran smoothly.  We started with a redcoat and then moved into shooting 1" squares.  For all the shooting on day 1 the soldiers fired "slick" that is with no body armor or gear on.  We did this so they could focus on the fundamentals and learn the right way before adding their kit and armor which would complicate things for them and the instructors.  For example you cant correct someone on their breathing if they are wearing armor because you cant tell if they are firing at their natural respiratory pause or not.  So the soldiers fired slick on day 1 but would fire in "kit" the rest of the week.  Between each square the soldiers received a class on either the steady hold factors, sling use, NPOA, IMC, Rifleman's cadence, etc.  The soldiers all showed a fantastic improvement from each square to the next and really started to embrace the GI sling they were using.  One of the soldiers after using the loop sling for the first time fired a five shot group on the squares with all rounds touching in one ragged hole.  When I saw it and pointed to it, the soldier smiled and simply said "I love the loop sling".  The squares brought us right up to lunch and during lunch Rick(Junior Birdman on the forum) gave them the 1st Strike of the match.  After lunch we posted Classification AQT's(Green coats) to teach and practice the standing and sitting positions.  After learning all the positions and practicing them the day was quickly coming to an end and we posted a redcoat to finish out day 1.  The results you may ask?  Out of 37 firers we had 29-100yd shooters, 16-200yd, 3-300yd, 2-400yd shooters, and 5 got the headshot.  Not bad when you figure the first redcoat results from the morning were 10-100yd shooters, 1-200yd, 1-300yd, 0-400yd shooters, and only 2 got the headshot. The soldiers and instructors all had a great day and everyone was looking forward to day 2.

[boltgun71]

Day 2 (25m Instruction and AQT's)

Day 2 brought us all back to the same covered 25m range with 38 motivated soldiers (1 new addition from day 1)and after a quick review of the previous days instruction, Stoner (sgtrock on the forum) gave the 2nd Strike to the Soldiers and we then moved into a redcoat target.  Starting first thing on day 2, the soldiers fired in full body armor(vest and helmet) and web gear the remainder of the course.  The first recoat showed a significant improvement with 35-100yd, 13-200yd, 8-300yd, 3-400yd shooters, and 12 got the headshot.  We then posted classification AQT's again to practice all the positions again but this time with transitions, magazine changes, and tight time limits in preparation for working up to the AQT.  After the classification AQT's we fired a star target to work on improving the soldier's cadence.  Then we broke for lunch while Kdan gave the soldiers the 3rd Strike of the Match.  After lunch brought what we had all been waiting and working towards, the AQT.  Each relay got to fire four AQT's by the end of the day (three stage by stage and one rapid fire AQT).  The results of the four AQT's brought us 4 new Riflemen!  Scores of 224, 211, 216, and 213!  Several more were knocking on the door with scores in the 190's to low 200's.  After the four AQT's at 25m we posted the soldiers final redcoat target.  The last redcoat for the week gave us 32-100yd shooters, 26-200yd, 10-300yd, 8-400yd shooters, and 9 got the headshot.  One soldier cleaned the entire target.  Compared to day 1, day 2 showed a significant increase in the soldier's marksmanship ability and effectiveness, and once again this was all accomplished with using only a GI sling and the soldiers shooting in full kit, armor and all.  The ending of day 2 brought the end of our instruction and firing at 25m, for days 3 and 4 the soldiers would be firing at Full Distance.

[boltgun71]

Day 3 (Full distance zeroing)

Day 3 began with meeting the soldiers at Fort Drums one and only 500yd Known Distance range where we would spend the next two days shooting.  We began the day with myself giving a class on ballistics and then we divided the soldiers into their relays again from the first two days, and one relay went to the pits to work the targets while the other team went to the 300yd line to confirm BSZ.  Both relays would end up firing the exact same strings which consisted of four 5 shot groups at 300yds to confirm BSZ and fine tune their zero, and then two 5 shots groups at 400yds and two 5 shot groups at 500yds.  Soldiers with ACOG equipped rifles used the appropriate hold-off in their scope to fire at 400 and 500yds, while soldiers with Aimpoint red dot sights actually dialed in the adjustment using Appleseed's 3,3,3,4 rule of thumb for shooting distance.  I kept track of all the soldiers success on each of their final 5 shot strings at each distance and the results are below.  For soldiers that achieved 100% of their final 5 shots at each distance on a 20"x 20" man sized from a prone sling supported position, at 300yds 18% of the soldiers and 13% of the soldiers at 400yds, achieved this remarkable feat of accuracy.  Nobody shot 5 out of at 500yds.  But as for the soldiers that kept at least 60% of their shots ( 3out of 5 or better) on a man sized target at full distance the numbers were much greater, with 58% of the soldiers at 300yds, 55% of the soldiers at 400yds, and 29% of the soldiers at 500yds achieving 60% or greater hits on a man sized target at distance.  Now to put this in perspective consider that 1/3 of all the soldiers in the course had never even fired beyond 300m before.  Of those that had, they primarily used some sort of support such as a sandbag, bipod, etc. to shoot beyond 300m, and even with that is was more luck or massive amounts of rounds expended that scored a hit rather than the deliberate skill they were know displaying.  During lunch on day three Rick told Dangerous Old Men stories as well.  After the firing was complete on day 3 I gave another class to the soldiers this time on target detection and after that we had a little bit more time to wait while the soldiers waited for their transportation to arrive at the range to pick them up.  During this time the soldiers approached us instructors and asked if we had more Rev War stories we could tell them as they waited.  Of course we were more than happy to oblige and Tom (Chainsaw on the forum) told them the account of Timothy Murphy at the Battle of Saratoga.  This wrapped up day 3 for us and we eagerly looked forward to the fourth and final day when the soldiers would be firing full distance AQT's.

[boltgun71]

Day 4 (Full Distance AQT's)

Day 4 was the culmination of all the previous days' instruction and practice and I never could have predicted going into it the results we would get.  The day started with a class on range estimation and a coin toss to determine which relay would get to fire first for the day.  The winning team chose to shoot last and went to the pits to work targets while the other team went to the 300yd line to confirm BSZ and knock the rust off the fundamentals with one 5 round sighter group before going into the full distance AQT's.  This one sighter group would be their only one of the day.  After confirming BSZ the soldiers moved forward to the 100yd line where they fired stage 1 of the AQT.  From their we moved back 100yds at a time shooting each stage of the AQT out to 400yds.  After the first AQT was complete we stayed at the 400yd line and fired another AQT just this time in reverse order going from 400yds, stage 4, to the 100yd line, stage 1.  This completed the firing and the soldiers switched out with the team in the pits and the same exact course of fire was ran for the other team with the one sighter at 300yds, and then two full distance AQT's.  This completed all the firing for the week and the soldiers broke for lunch and policed up their brass while us instructors got busy doing admin stuff, signing certificates, verifying scores, preparing handouts, etc.  After everything was set-up we gather the soldiers in the bleachers and had a extensive in-depth AAR on the weeks instruction and course of fire.  Overall the reviews were outstanding.  You would have to hear it from the soldiers themselves.  They loved it!  Several comments were made on the quality of instruction, professionalism of the instructors, safety, smoothness of the program, logical progression of instruction, the history, the fun and challenge of the AQT, etc.  Every single soldier said they learned multiple things throughout the week from the marksmanship and history lessons they were given.  They all wanted more of it.  They all agreed the AQT was a superior course of fire than the Army's and it would better prepare them for their upcoming deployments.  Every single soldier said their confidence and competence with a rifle was increased because of the instruction they received from Project Appleseed.  The soldiers were thanked for their willingness to learn and great attitudes and the instructors were thanked repeatedly by the soldiers for teaching them and coming to FT Drum to help them, all without pay, sacrificing their time and money to come help the soldiers.  After the AAR we gave the soldiers the results of the Full Distance AQT's.  At full distance we had 11 of the 38 soldier's fire Rifleman, 2 of them were repeat Rifleman from the firing at 25m.  Meaning overall for the week 13 total Riflemen were forged on the AQT, a 34% Rifleman rate.  What an incredible number!  Another 8 soldiers fired scores of 180 or higher, they are so close to Rifleman they can taste it!  All of us instructors were ecstatic, congratulations goes out to all of our soldiers at this shoot.  There were motivated and willing to learn and the numbers speak for themselves.  Every soldier improved greatly and left with a brain full of knowledge and an increased proficiency with their rifle, all thanks to Project Appleseed.  Once again thanks goes out to all the instructors that made this shoot an overwhelming success.  Your one of the greatest groups of Americans I have ever had the chance to work with.  In no particular order thank you Junior Birdman, Spartan, sgtrock, Kdan, Chainsaw, and B9.  Thank you also to those behind the scenes like the ones that donated to "Slings for Soldiers" and to everyone else that provided guidance, encouragement, or even packed the supplies and shipped targets and materials for this shoot.  You know who you all are and thank you.

I look forward to hearing comments from instructors and hopefully the soldiers alike.  Much more information will be available as I get the time to compile it and type it over the next few days.  Pictures will also be coming as well.  Thanks again everyone and let the comments roll.

[Gordon]

Outstanding. Thank you Boltgun.

[Buzzworth]

BRAVO! BRAVO! 


WELL DONE! VERY WELL DONE!!! 

[Spartan]

Great Report Boltgun!!  HooaH!!!
The NCOs and the soldiers that were there will be passing along the knowledge and techniques that they aquired for some time to come.  The BCT CDR was gratefull and the BDE CSM was very impressed as well with what he saw his soldiers display on the line.

[sgtrock]

    Absolutely an out standing event to be a part of,,, I was so Proud to be with these men at Fort Drum, it's been a few years since I was there in training myself, alot of things have changed in that time, except one, The Young Americans that are Proudly doing a Great Service for our country,,,  I looked upon these men as if they were my family and did my utmost to give them what they needed to accomplish the mission that they would soon be asked to do,,,
   As it has been stated already, This was an outstanding opportunity for Project Appleseed, The reviews from the soldiers says it all, and it is great that it was well received by the Brigade Commander and the Brigade Command Sergeant Major as well,, I was very pleased to hear that,,,
   Boltgun71 (John) did an Outstanding Job setting this up and His Instruction was Absolutely Second to None,, The troops were high speed, low drag as well, they grasped the instruction fast and applied it skillfully,, it was a joy to witness,,,
   The team that was assembled there gave them a lot more tools to put in their tool boxes to bring these guys back safely to our shores, I believe in this Program and I believe the soldiers do too,,,
   I wish them a safe journey and hope to have a chance to have a cup of coffee with them in the future,,,
   It was a distinct privilege to work with these instructors; Boltgun71, kDan, B9, Spartan from NY, Chainsaw from PA, Junior Birdman from AL
   It is my wish to be able to do this for them again, anytime, anywhere...

   sgtrock

[boltgun71]

Group photo on day 2


Practicing standing in full kit


Target analysis on the first QDAQT


Sitting/kneeling practice


Great interaction with instructors and shooters


Kdan giving the 3rd Strike during an MRE lunch

[B9]

Working a shoot like this was an honor I hope to repeat many, many times.
Thanks to all of the Soldiers for being receptive to training from us. If we helped give you even the smallest edge to stay safe I see it as mission accomplished.

The first four Riflemen.









Inches, minutes and clicks review along with talking targets.



Ball and dummy drill. Tight line as it was then add body armor and gear.  







Big improvement on effective range. This is a day 2 shot. The surface was talcum powder like sand and the dust in the air is apparent.

[SGTLindo]

I gotta say, what a great class, liked it so much i decided to hop on the forum, ha! I learned alot that week, and cant wait to teach my soldiers. I would also like to get my hands on that documentary, anybody have any info on that?? Keep up the good work guys!


-SGT. Lindeman, B TRP, 3-71 CAV, 3BCT, 10th MT(LI)

[Spartan]

Kdan should have that soon.
Spartans!

[U.S.Cavalryman]

Lindo, I am glad you learned alot. I am glad you came to the forum also. Bandit Troop can use good shooters.

[SGTLindo]

awesome, cant wait for it to come out. Well, once i pass along all this knowledge, bandit troop will definitely have alot better shooters, no doubt in my mind about that.

[SavageShootr]

SGTLindo  Thank You, Sir!

[posterboy]

SGT Lindo

HUZZAH !!

Sir ....thank you from the bottom of my heart all of you are in my prayers and my family's.

pb

[sgtrock]

Target scoring


Spartan watching over the troops


Our new Riflemen


Our new Riflemen

[4merUSMC1803]

Once again, I'm inspired by this great organization, its awesome volunteers and our outstanding men and women in uniform!  Way to go Red Hats and a big Hooah! to the participating 10th Mountain soldiers.  Finally, Congratulations to our newest Riflemen!  Reading about all the exploits and viewing the exceptional photos, I'm just so durn proud of everybody.   

[Old Glory!]

Well, once i pass along all this knowledge, bandit troop will definitely have alot better shooters, no doubt in my mind about that.

Spoken like a true Rifleman!   

BG71 - I hope you stuffed an Orange Hat under SGTLindo's Kevlar. 

[AFTERMATH]

Instructors and Soldiers;  WELL DONE.
[Really, need I say more than that?]

[kDan]

I have not come to terms with the honor it is to have taken part in this event, and I can't adequately express my respect for these soldiers.  It is unknowable what the results of this will be, but it's hard to imagine how this event could have gone any better.  

Outstanding.  Truly outstanding.  I wasn't sure what to expect, but I certainly wasn't anticipating this level of such curious and willing students.  When we offered the slings on Saturday morning, each soldier immediately removed whatever sling they had on their m4, gladly accepted our archaic looking olive drab relics, and never looked back.  Some of the guys had m203 grenade launchers attached to their weapons (yes, I said weapons) and were limited to side swivels and a less than ideal sling situation.  I suspect we would have had a few more Riflemen if the men were allowed (and chose) to remove these useful contraptions for our particular purposes.  But Appleseed is never about handing out patches, and for these guys we're offering a very useful tool for a what is an already crowded tool box.  The guys with the 203s were slung up and resting the rifle across the palm just like the rest of them, just with the bore a little higher up and with a little less stability.  I did see one soldier dry-firing his 203 during prep period at KD.  He suggested maybe a chalk round to surprise the guys in the pits, but the ammo detail was unsupplied.

The two days under the covered range went very well, running the regular appleseed POI and getting to know what our shooters were capable of - tight groups, stable positions, rapid fire.  It was a bit hot and close, but the big electric fans kept us breathing.  Nobody could hear the cease fire during timed rapid-fire stages unless most of the shooters had finished so mostly we Instructors had to watch the Line Boss for cues and then run down the line tapping shooters on the shoulder or leg and screaming our bloody heads off to let them know it had been called.  A couple of times I made the mistake of scratching my ear or some such and lifting an edge of my ear goggles while the boys were shooting.  GAWD, it was loud!  The acoustics seemed to amplifiy the blast of the center-fires while at the same time absorbing voices into the ether.  The clouds of dust that kicked up from the  sand under the muzzle blast coupled with the fact that we were looking down a long dark chamber into the sunny outside world through a bright narrow slit 25 meters away at the target line made it a bit hard to make out the targets at times, especially during rapid fire.  Amazing covered facility though.  On day two, we brought our various sleeping and shooting pads to serve as blasting mats and wetted the sand with bottles from the "water buffalo".  This helped a lot.  

Can anybody tell me what this sound is, heard in the distance - "VVVVVVVVVVV!" (hint - it's NOT an engine), or how bout this one - "BOOM!"  Count to five as fast as you can.  I swear I heard Godzilla coming over the tree line when we were at KD.  Seriously, Godzilla.  No idea that that was...  sheesh.

It was nice to get outside on Day 3, and it seemed that's when the most smiles started to shine across the faces of the soldiers.  Judging by the case blisters on the back of the necks of many of the shooters, I think they were glad to have a little room between themselves and the guy to their left.  Saw a lot of brass land and stick on the 25.  The wind was kicking from our 6 in the am, but moved around to 9 o'clock by the afternoon.  Anybody tells you a gusty 20 - 30 mph full value wind won't affect groups at 400 yards is misrepresenting the facts.  Later in the day the boys were hitting a full two - three minutes right after sighting in at 25 the day before or at 300 in the no value wind of the morning.  We adjusted elevation, but held for windage unless it was an obvious sight issue, and Friday, when the wind died down, the results would speak for themselves.

I did video-tape Boltgun71's demos and yes SGTLindo, you and your boys will be able to have a copy of the dvd when I burn them.  I need to upgrade my computer set-up first - it crashes when I plug in the camera and turn it on - but it should be only a couple weeks until I can get this quick thing together.  Hopefully sooner.  It's all fun and games when all you have to do is stick a camera in somebody's face, but come time to edit 8 hours of footage on a five year old laptop with no disc drive, and somebody could lose an eye.  I think AS Instructor's will benefit from these demos as well.  They remind me of some of the servicemen marksmanship clinic dvd's Buzzworth sent me a couple years ago, except the cinematography is much more refined this time around.   HA! yeah right...

My personal e-mail is rwva.nyc@gmail.com - anybody that wants a copy should just write me.

The high point of the week for me was day four, when me, BG71, Chainsaw and shooting group one (RED team, BLUE team? - I can't remember) were setting up for FD AQT #2 (we went from 100 out to 400, then back for each relay, each team shooting two), and Sgtrock from the pits suddenly comes over the two-way announcing Riflemen.  First three, then four Rifleman and the numbers kept going up all day.  I was smiling so much my teeth got sunburned.

MRE's are pretty good, but do NOT drink the strawberry shake two days in a row.  One day maybe, but not two.  I failed Spartan's cracker challenge; no m1a for me - this time.  The spicy pound cake is quite delightful.  The water in my bottle from the water buffalo turned brown over-night.  Tastes kinda funny too.

Santa wants an ACOG.

[U.S.Cavalryman]

Kdan i will PM you the secret to the cracker challenge but you gotta let me shoot the M1a when you get it ok.

[B9]

Can anybody tell me what this sound is, heard in the distance - "VVVVVVVVVVV!" (hint - it's NOT an engine), or how bout this one - "BOOM!"  Count to five as fast as you can.  I swear I heard Godzilla coming over the tree line when we were at KD.  Seriously, Godzilla.  No idea that that was...  sheesh.

A10 Warthog.

[PHenry]

I have not come to terms with the honor it is to have taken part in this event, and I can't adequately express my respect for these soldiers.

KDan

KDan, that sums up how I felt after Ft. Stewart. It is a humbling thing to have men who are about to go into combat call you "sir".

God bless every one of those "rough men who stand ready to violence" on our part and a big "Huzaah!" to all of the instructors.

Nicely done.

[Spartan]

US cavalryman,,,don't let the secret to the cracker out.  Hooah!  send me your snail mail pm so I can send you that coin.

[Chainsaw]

I have not come to terms with the honor it is to have taken part in this event, and I can't adequately express my respect for these soldiers.

KDan

KDan, that sums up how I felt after Ft. Stewart. It is a humbling thing to have men who are about to go into combat call you "sir".

God bless every one of those "rough men who stand ready to violence" on our part and a big "Huzaah!" to all of the instructors.

Nicely done.

...and that's exactly how I felt for 99.95% of the time... then on day 3, a moment of levity.

We were in a prep period on the 400 meter line.  I was quizzing an Aimpoint user on how many moa and clicks he had adjusted since moving from the 300 meter line.  He made a simple, but common error in his calculation and I corrected him.  His response...

"Sir!  I rode the short bus, sir!"

I think I dislocated my spleen I was laughing so hard.  I said, "You and me both buddy."

[PHenry]

Levity is good. 

Sometimes it can be embarrassing. I was speaking to the soldiers in my section of the line on the last of the five days we had with about 450 men (90 or so per day). These were a "QRF" platoon, or quick reactionary force, and all of them had seen combat before, despite being National Guardsmen.

Most of them had been issued M4s with no slings and no batteries / dead batts in CCOs. Well. abrasive little twit that I am, speaking from experience gained during the week, I told the men in my AO "Gentlemen, there isn't an ice cube's prayer in Hades of getting any slings or batteries any time soon, so we'll just have to improvise, .........."

Well, just as I was in mid-swagger, a young soldier in full battle rattle walks towards me and says "They'll be here in 30 minutes sir". I looked down at his chest (something you git used to doing in the Army I imagine) and see that he is a Major. You know - they all look about the same in all of that gear and matching designer camo - what did I know? I swallerd hard and said "Yes sir! - That would be great sir!".

And wouldn't ya know - less than 30 minutes later - he walks up to me with two bags in his hands and says "This is every sling and battery in Ft. Stewart sir". Humble pie - mother may I have another? 

[boltgun71]

Stage 1


Stage 2 Prep Period


Stage 3


Stage 4

[boltgun71]

Just remembered to add that one of our FD rifleman fired his Full Distance Rifleman score using a M4 carbine equipped with an Aimpoint CompM and a M203 grenade launcher attached.  The Aimpoint is a zero magnification red dot sight with a 4 MOA dot and shooting a rifle with a M203 attached is like shooting a rifle with a 5 pound barrel weight swaying side to side underneath the barrel.  It is very impressive to fire Rifleman with a set-up such as this.