Saratoga, NY IBC 3/27-28 2010

[crak]

Definitely the smoothest IBC I've seen so far.  8 IIT's came to Dunham's Bay Fish and Game on Saturday to learn the ins and outs of teaching rifle marksmanship to their fellow Americans.  I junked the IBC POI order of things and went in my usual Saturday morning order instead.  This caused a 3000% decrease in desire to stab the next person who said "Steady Hold Factor" and I'm going to keep going this way.

Mad Mark and Another Dangerous Old Mark brought a pile of rifles to play "Find the Safety Violation."  I learned a Hakim, like an angry rabid pet lion, is probably unsafe at any speed.  I'm man enough to admit I had a nightmare about it while sleeping on the side of the MA Turnpike.  

The New Mark brought snazzy printed up copies of the manuals and guideposts.  Sweet.

Mad Mark's idea of doing a field trip to Saratoga on Sunday was solid gold.  If you're doing an Appleseed on Revolutionary War stomping grounds, you're doing your students a disservice by leaving local flavor out of your shoot.  And NY is overflowing with flavor.  Next time we'll do Sunday up at Fort Ticonderoga.

For those who don't know (and I didn't know a whole lot about it before yesterday) Saratoga was a turning point for the war in 1777.  And at the turning point of that turning point stood a Rifleman by the name of Timothy Murphy.  In a tree.  Making 300 yard hits on General Simon Fraser and an aide to General John Burgoyne communicating orders.  The British collapsed back into their fortifications, Burgoyne handed over his sword, Howe's plan to cut off New England failed, and the French were so impressed they joined the war.  

Not a bad day's work for Rifleman Timothy Murphy.

Hopefully Rich and Andy will be along with pictures.  Thanks to everyone, especially Firewall and Buzzworth for coming down!

[crak]

Interestingly enough, "flavor" invokes the angry red spell check line while "flavour" does not.

Are we being haunted by Redcoats? 

[gunville]

Not haunted by red coats, but by Hakims.

My question though - wasn't it accurate? 

The Swed's set the Egyptians up making these; it's a respectable rifle based on the Ljungman AG42, only in 8mm Mauser.

I prefer it's little (2 lb lighter) brother, the Raschid - 7.62x39 tames it. These were short lived as Egypt adapted the Maddi AK47. Unfortunately none has ever crossed my path while my pockets were full enough. (So many rifles, so little time...)

[crak]

We didn't shoot it, so I don't know if it was accurate enough.  But it looked accurate enough to bite off my whole arm if I worked the bolt wrong. 

[Buzzworth]

I came to this event because I needed a boost, I felt the need the need for SEED (Appleseed that is) I was not disappointed  
The field trip to the Saratoga Battlefield site was SO IMPRESSIVE, it makes it SO REAL and it is, sometimes the stories feel well, like stories kind of a movie or poem or song well... they were and are REAL and going to the place where things actualy happened was and is not to be missed. Even the weather was almost like it was back then (19th century folks sure were hearty)

The visitor center is outstanding! The park ranger got out a Brown Bess and told us some the very tall tails about Tim Murphy (the Rifleman who changed the whole world)

The IBC in the very nice club house at the host range was indeed very smooth
Someone said "I took more notes at this than all of high school"  

Thanks to all who were there. I needed that tall drink from the well and wow does that feel good  

[Another D.O.M.]

I'm man enough to admit I had a nightmare about it while sleeping on the side of the MA Turnpike.

Yeah, but what about the song, man?  What did you come up with for the song?

Hopefully Rich and Andy will be along with pictures.

I'm looking forward to these as well!

I prefer it's little (2 lb lighter) brother, the Raschid - 7.62x39 tames it. These were short lived as Egypt adapted the Maddi AK47. Unfortunately none has ever crossed my path while my pockets were full enough. (So many rifles, so little time...)

Hmmmm - so I now have a developing birthday/Christmas wish list for gunville...

My question though - wasn't it accurate?

My understanding (and Fred The Helpful may be able to shed some light upon this) is that they were intended as a Squad Heavy Weapon.  I have seen some milsurp ammo for these that is rumored to produce a nice, clean 8mm hole through about 1/2" of steel brake rotor.

But it looked accurate enough to bite off my whole arm if I worked the bolt wrong.  

You're so funny.  Picture this:  the rest of us are all standing around shivering and commenting on the wind chill factor as we're touring the battlefield, and crak is ridiculing us for it - "Haven't you guys ever been to a winter Appleseed?  Jeesh..."  But he had a nightmare about my Hakim biting his arm off after seeing how the bolt slams home with no warning if you move the safety lever just so.

    Wait a minute; I think I had the same dream after the first time I handled it!

    Well, FWIW, Fred's Guide has some rather unique targets in it that were designed for just such a rifle.  Now if I could just find an abandoned APC out in a corn field to practice on.  A QDAPC, so to speak...

This IBC was fantastic!  I really liked the way Chris changed the tempo to get all the 'book learning' in on Saturday (yes, it was a very long day, but worth it).  The field trip to the
Saratoga national Historical Park for the history & heritage presentations really brought things into sharper focus.  Why do we do Appleseeds?  Because the true historical record of the efforts and sacrifices of guys like Murphy, Arnold, Morgan, Kosciuszko, etc. must never be forgotten, nor swept underneath the proverbial rug by a broken public education system.  April 19th was the beginning of the American War for Independence, but the history and heritage extend well beyond this day throughout the geographic area of tthe original colonies.  Using regional Revolutionary War Era history and heritage to really get into the hearts and minds of regional attendees advances Project Appleseed to a whole new level of waking up the sleeping Americans in our midst!

I'd like to extend a heartfelt Thank You from both myself and our NY State Coordinator, B9, to all who attended.  Special thanks to 'mad Mark' for planning the field trip; and to 'New Mark' for the printed copies of the latest Instructor Manual and Fred's guideposts.  We truly could not ask for better prepared or more dedicated local BOTG representatives!  And to all of our visitors from surrounding states - Ya'll come back now, ya' hear?

[edmorseiii]

Thanks to Chris Lloyd and John, I had a blast this past weekend. The time spent on the actual battlegrounds was AWESOME. I really liked the way the strikes were discussed in a group listening to everyone's own thoughts on the events, gave me some other perspectives on the topics. I can not wait for the Battle Road Walk next weekend.

Since I have been home my M14 has been looking my in the face begging me for a work out, I may have to take Buzzworth up on his offer to shoot at distance sooner then latter.

Thanks again to everyone involved.

Ed

[Andy in NH]

[R1SGx2]

IBC - Lake George 03-10 / long days into the night, cold with strong wind chills, then think of April 19, 1775 and following years / Battles, guess we had it pretty nice.
Thank you for letting me be part of this class. A lot of knowledge shared with good people, opened with a lot of hand shakes, and within moments, we were all old friends..

Lest we forget Josey Wales for the box of brochures he sent up. JW, wish you could of been with us, your insight is always appreciated.

Crak, Buzzworth and Firewall - a team not to be beat.
B-9, you would of enjoyed the visit to the National Park at the Saratoga Battle Field where Tim Murphy took two 300 yard shots from a tree. Change the Revolution and history.

New York and Team Northeast mounting up and moving out.

Stay Focused & Mission Orientated.

[nyrasgt]

Outstanding IBC (as was Burlington Flats) @ both Dunham's Bay F&GC and Saratoga National Historical Park on Sunday...and the company wasn't half-bad either. Will not be listing every attendee and attribute - will just state, for the record, that the only instructors who would be unable to learn from crak, Firewall99, and Buzzworth - would be those who had, unfortunately, already joined Isaac Davis and General Simon Frazier.  If one is breathing, one learns from these men.  Not negotiable nor arguable - as Walter Brennan used to say in "The Guns of Will Sonnet," "No brag...just fact."  Learning in pairs was equally outstanding; every IIT, regardless of "rank," got to do every part of the instruction expected of him at an Appleseed - and have it critiqued by both a brother instructor and the mentor-Red Hat...
   Staff @ Saratoga National Historical Park could not have been more helpful than they were; the park's Chief Ranger, Greg Wozniak, gave us a musket demonstration, loaned us a room to use, and experienced a very heavy 7th Step cruise from nearly every instructor about joining us and attending an Appleseed weekend.  I will repeat the invitation for him or any of his staff to attend an Appleseed weekend as our guests - we speak the same language.
   The fiber-optic battlefield diorama, demonstrating the movement of both British and American units during the battle, was amazing.  I will reuest the name of the company in New Jersey that built it; we need one or more of these - made portable - for 19 April, 1775...it may seem blasphemous, but anyone who has seen this display at Saratoga knows that price should not be the primary concern here.
  Another IBC is already being planned for the Fall of 2010, incorporating new orange hats who will be recruited between now and the Fall...we may indeed head north to Forts William Henry (Last of the Mohicans venue) and Ticonderoga.
   See everyone on the northeast trail, and again many thanks to everyone for contributing to the success of Dunham's Bay 3-10.
Excelsior,
Mark A. Dupper
nyrasgt
aka mad Mark
   

[Josey Wales]

..I have regret for not being there, and I am glad it was a good time for my fellow NY Instructors....As far as the brochures go, thank you for appreciating them, anyone who needs more just PM me and we will take care of that..
..NY is a special place and we have a very big job to do, with a population of 19 million people, we must converge our efforts to make a difference.. I think we are off to a good start, but I see a busy future for all of us, I hope and pray we are up to this gigantic task at hand...and, to the NY Instructors I have bailed with; I could not have picked a better group of American Citizens to do it with..
....remember...........Strength & Honor.................................JW................................................

[VietVet]

PERFECTION....Is the first word that comes to mind when thinking back on this IBC.
Crak, Buzzworth, Firewall, well what a complete package. It was educational, entertaining and just pure fun. The trip to Saratoga completely wrapped this gift.
Trust me it was a gift. I am honestly at a loss for words to truly explain what an experience this IBC was. It was an experience of a lifetime, something I will carry with me forever. The three mentioned instructors should be holding their heads very high.

WELL DONE MEN! Thank you for your knowledge and the opportunity to steal some of it.

I'd also like to say thank you to my fellow IBC'ers. I feel we formed a "family" and helped each other along. From the minute you walked in the door you knew you were among friends. That was the atmosphere of this IBC. IT WAS GREAT!

Here are some photos taken at Saratoga.........

[edmorseiii]

Thanks for the pictures, they came out great! I do need to be reminded how much I need to shave from time to time. 

[Colorado Pete]

Off on a side path at Saratoga, without any signs pointing towards it, is an unmarked stone monument surrounded by an iron cage. The monument shows in relief a leg wearing a pull-on, calf-length cavalryman's boot. No words adorn it nor signs explain it. If you don't know where it is you'll likely miss it.

It is a monument to the left leg of General Benedict Arnold who, having been relieved of his command by commanding General Horatio Gates after a heated argument, disregarded the order, mounted his horse, and rode to the sound of the guns. He took command of the American forces in the field and personally led attacks which overran two British fortifications, turning their flank and causing the British to surrender shortly thereafter. At the second British redoubt Arnold took a musket ball in his left leg, which had been similarly wounded while leading the attack on the city of Quebec on the night of 12/31/75-1/1/76. His later treason has pretty much overshadowed his previous military prowess which made final victory in New England possible.

Just thought I'd mention this footnote for the folks who hadn't heard of it yet.

[Lakevillian]

I had a great time there myself and thanks to all for the planning and execution.  As it was my first experience as an IIT and I absolutely had the deer in the headlights feeling through all of the training excercises.  It is one thing to read and hear the info several times as a participant, but delivering the AS dogma to critical ears is the way to make you see what you are lacking.  I suppose that the information overload will eventually recede into a fond memory of when I was an IIT level 0. 

One thing that really hit me hard over the weekend was that this is NOT a government run program.  It is the absolute embodyment of sovereign citizenry taking action for the common good.  We all found the program, and it was something that we all can give a little bit back to the founders of this amazing country.

John Fitzgerald